Captain America versus Lady Shiva

Originally posted by Soljer
Captain America can sense incoming attacks via air currents. Even from opponents as skilled as T'Challa.
http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=coc004195wg.jpg

The Hand has stated that Captain America knows their martial arts:
http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hruxm268pg024zr.jpg

He dislocates a thug's shoulder with a mere touch:
http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica375p108la.jpg

He has made Spidey's legs go numb with a single nerve strike.
http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amazingspiderman53419qu5.jpg
http://img55.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amazingspiderman53420er2.jpg

Pressure to the External Carotid Artery:
http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica329042ko.jpg

Another one-nerve-strike-KO:
http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capamericav134320rougher9cm.jpg

Puts down a superhuman werewolf with a nerve strike:
http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica164179ax.jpg

Daredevil calls Captain America one of the world's greatest combatants. Daredevil would know, yeah?
http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica375p168lo.jpg

Here, Logan talks about the Skills that Taskmaster has copied. He saves the best for last, "Even the likes of Captain America himself!"
http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page116fq.jpg

The captions read about how Captain America cracks Mr. Hyde's ribs via skill, and then knocks him the **** out.
http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica152215qs.jpg

He knocks the shit out of superhuman Boxers like Bantam while remarking about how decades of fighting have honed his skill second to none.

His pressure points have registered on the Hulk on multiple occasions.

Also, I believe this scan sums it up [b]perfectly http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav3034161pe.jpg [/B]

That's a hell of a job, especially with that last scan. Definitely puts the nails in the coffin of this Vs. battle.

who's the combatant, btw? I don't recognize him?

Also whoever that guy is treats one of Caps best finshing moves like nothing.....

Well thats the problem with Tasky he can mimic someones attack even in double speed, but he can not use it effectively, thats the difference.

Which reminds me some what of Shiva she may be a tad more skillfull or have more techniques then Batman or Batgirl. But she's never shown to be superior, on the contrary its Bats who seems to be the better in there scuffles.

Your right in saying those Cap feats don't show superiority but it does show he is one of the best.

Cass has thoroughly embarrassed Bizarro Supergirl. 131

Any character with a solo series is intuitively bound to amass more feats than someone who doesn't have one.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
....So you show a bunch of nerve strikes that Batman,Dragon and Shiva have all been shown as capable of doing as though it shows his superiority?Riiight

You show a holding back-out of practice DD saying Caps one of the worlds greatest combatants......we all know that,but that is because of his enhancements and skills,had he said Martial artist or most skilled that scan might have meant something.

Mr Hyde is pathetic,you and i both know that.

That last scan.....So he mentions Captain America last....thats because out of all those men he respects Cap the most,if we're going by statements,then technically Cap wouldn't be any better than Wolverine at all.Also whoever that guy is treats one of Caps best finshing moves like nothing.....

Martian Mind, I know you are capable of reading comprehension. Where did I EVER say that Captain America was the superior martial artist? Please. I've maintained that Captain America and Shiva are on comparable levels. Nothing more.

Also; I didn't post the scans as evidence of superiority, I posted them because Draco wanted an example of Cap stopping the blood flow to the brain. I figured a pressure point strike to a carotid artery would suffice.

figured a pressure point strike to a carotid artery would suffice.

In one of the scans that you showed Cap was able to pressure-point Spiderman through his new armor.

Cap when he was trasferred into the body of a old/dying Redscull body, he was able to paralyze Giant-Man's arms with a little tap on the forehead.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Lets use ABC logic then. Bronze Tiger has thrashed Batman and Shiva and Dragon are better then Turner. Even when Batman took "every precaution" he still would have lost to Turner had the fight not been interupted... and I think Turner even had the advatage in a third fight before the JLA broke it up. Aside from the fact that Shiva hasn't beaten Batman, there is nothing to sugest that he is as skilled as she is. Can I make an arguement for Punisher being as skilled as Shang Chi, because Shang has never fought him? No, no I can't.

Lets use ABC Logic,Batman knocked out spectre,therefore he's >then 90% of comic book heroes.Also your logic is flawed as they are considered equals with eachother hell Turner trained Dragon.

Also your making an argument that Capt is better than Shang based on The fact that someone who lost to shang wanted to beat Capt America.

Originally posted by Soljer
Martian Mind, I know you are capable of reading comprehension. Where did I EVER say that Captain America was the superior martial artist? Please. I've maintained that Captain America and Shiva are on comparable levels. Nothing more.

Also; I didn't post the scans as evidence of superiority, I posted them because Draco wanted an example of Cap stopping the blood flow to the brain. I figured a pressure point strike to a carotid artery would suffice.

My bad,i apologise....

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Lets use ABC Logic,Batman knocked out spectre,therefore he's >then 90% of comic book heroes.Also your logic is flawed as they are considered equals with eachother hell Turner trained Dragon.

Also your making an argument that Capt is better than Shang based on The fact that someone who lost to shang wanted to beat Capt America.

Dragon is Turners better, it was made pretty clear in his 12 issue series... which retconned the hell out of his, Turners and Shiva's historys. And Turner has an interaction with Cass as well that suggest he wasn't on par with the Shiva or Dragon.

I think Captain America is better then Shang Chi because his primary villian said as much... and that Wolverine beat Shang Chi. Zaran isn't the only Shang Chi villian Captain America has fought either. He has thrown down with maybe half a dozen Chi villains and faired much, much better the Chi himself.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Dragon is Turners better, it was made pretty clear in his 12 issue series... which retconned the hell out of his, Turners and Shiva's historys. And Turner has an interaction with Cass as well that suggest he was on par with the Shiva or Dragon.

I think Captain America is better then Shang Chi because his primary villian said as much... and that Wolverine beat Shang Chi. Zaran isn't the only Shang Chi villian Captain America has fought either. He has thrown down with maybe half a dozen Chi villains and faired much, much better the Chi himself.

ABC logic is a mugs game.

Here's an example:Nightwing stalemated Deathstroke who in turn defeated Batman,Who in turn has Knocked out Spectre who destroyed 60% of the dcu's magical population,Therefore Nightwing>>>>>60% of the Dcu's Magical population.

Caps victories come from both a combination of the Serum and Skill,So it would make perfect sense when someone who's ALMOST at Shang-chi's level in Skill but is faster,stronger and more durable Takes a victory.

Batman never knocked out Spectre. He batkicked him and caused the pained expression on the Spectre's face that we see all over the place....

But it didn't actually KNOCK the spectre out, if I do recall correctly.

Originally posted by Soljer
Batman never knocked out Spectre. He batkicked him and caused the pained expression on the Spectre's face that we see all over the place....

But it didn't actually KNOCK the spectre out, if I do recall correctly.

Shhhhhh......i think shrank might have given up....Beside's how many street levellers do you know that could do that?

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Shhhhhh......i think shrank might have given up....Beside's how many street levellers do you know that could do that?

I'll one up you.

Guess who this is:

http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers177108rk.jpg

Originally posted by Martian_mind
ABC logic is a mugs game.

Here's an example:Nightwing stalemated Deathstroke who in turn defeated Batman,Who in turn has Knocked out Spectre who destroyed 60% of the dcu's magical population,Therefore Nightwing>>>>>60% of the Dcu's Magical population.

Caps victories come from both a combination of the Serum and Skill,So it would make perfect sense when someone who's ALMOST at Shang-chi's level in Skill but is faster,stronger and more durable Takes a victory.

First off, Batman never knocked out the Specter.

And ABC logic can work fine when you are comparing a group of very similar characters aren't purposely filling it with PIS in the attempt to discredit it.

No ABC logic. No spoken word testaments. Aside from Shiva actually beating Batman nothing will work for you... and that is ridiculous. You can continue to think what you want about Batman's skill level, DC has been pretty clear on his relative skill level. I'll just have to take comfort in the fact that neither Shiva, Cass or Dragon would ever get their asses kicked by KGBeast.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
First off, Batman never knocked out the Specter.

And ABC logic can work fine when you are comparing a group of very similar characters aren't purposely filling it with PIS in the attempt to discredit it.

No ABC logic. No spoken word testaments. Aside from Shiva actually beating Batman nothing will work for you... and that is ridiculous. You can continue to think what you want about Batman's skill level, DC has been pretty clear on his relative skill level. I'll just have to take comfort in the fact that neither Shiva, Cass or Dragon would ever get their asses kicked by KGBeast.

I've lost track of what we're debating about.Are we arguing if Caps above Shiva or if Bats above Shiva or if Caps above Bats?I beleive it's Shiva>Bats=Cap when it comes to skill.......Why would i look at words or ABC logic when i have actual proof by fighting?Dr Strange has on a Red cape but Wong says it's yellow.....therefore despite the fact that it is always drawn red it must now be drawn yellow because someone said it is?When Batman and Shiva fight Batman always has the advantage,all the hints,quotes and ABC logic in the world doesn't change that.If you can't wrap your head around that it's your problem,not mine.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
I've lost track of what we're debating about.Are we arguing if Caps above Shiva or if Bats above Shiva or if Caps above Bats?I beleive it's Shiva>Bats=Cap when it comes to skill.......Why would i look at words or ABC logic when i have actual proof by fighting?Dr Strange has on a Red cape but Wong says it's yellow.....therefore despite the fact that it is always drawn red it must now be drawn yellow because someone said it is?When Batman and Shiva fight Batman always has the advantage,all the hints,quotes and ABC logic in the world doesn't change that.If you can't wrap your head around that it's your problem,not mine.

....

❌

Shiva = Batman = Cap when it comes to skill.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
I've lost track of what we're debating about.Are we arguing if Caps above Shiva or if Bats above Shiva or if Caps above Bats?I beleive it's Shiva>Bats=Cap when it comes to skill.......Why would i look at words or ABC logic when i have actual proof by fighting?Dr Strange has on a Red cape but Wong says it's yellow.....therefore despite the fact that it is always drawn red it must now be drawn yellow because someone said it is?When Batman and Shiva fight Batman always has the advantage,all the hints,quotes and ABC logic in the world doesn't change that.If you can't wrap your head around that it's your problem,not mine.

I'm saying Cap > Shiva > Batman

They've "fought" three times. Once he had the advantage because Robin cold clocked her and once he had the advantage because she was Mind controlled (and the book was written by Loeb). I can't remember the third one, but I think Shiva was testing Batman in front of O-Sensei or something. Not enough to say they are even especially considering all the training and condition Shiva has undergone since the fight where Robin interfered. Batman is physically superior to Shiva but she is more skilled, that's all there is to it.

You ignore the fact that before Robin even interfered, Batman had stalemated and disarmed her by his lonesome.

Originally posted by Soljer
You ignore the fact that before Robin even interfered, Batman had stalemated and disarmed her by his lonesome.

Batman is around 6'2 and weights what, 200-210lbs? Physically, he is Shiva's superior. Now what reason would Shiva have for holding her own against someone who is stronger and quite possibly faster then she is? Hmmmm.... I wonder?

And don't forget that Shiva has improved vastly since that incounter.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Lets use ABC Logic,Batman knocked out spectre,therefore he's >then 90% of comic book heroes.Also your logic is flawed as they are considered equals with eachother hell Turner trained Dragon.

Also your making an argument that Capt is better than Shang based on The fact that someone who lost to shang wanted to beat Capt America.

Originally posted by Juntai
He didn't knock out Spectre at any time.

That makes three people to correct him.

And he never gave me a response to;
http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers177108rk.jpg