Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
They are plot devices because they are used to enhance the plot in a method he himself couldn't do on his own.For example, the DD, Ryu couldn't defeat it without the TDS. Nor is Ryu anywhere near as powerful without them.
Based on what, without his weapons ryu can shoot ki blast that are capable of destroying jet aircraft. So, how is he weaker without them, and TDS is the only plot device in the game, the rest of his weapons aren't plot devices.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarNo Genfu can't. Your missing my point. My point isn't that he destroyed a comet, my point is, [COLOR=red]HE CAN![/COLOR]
Gen fu can kill with ablow, and the comet feat is not canon. Please stop mentioning it, it's against the rules.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarYes they have, Gouki can crush mountains with punches. They got punched by Gouki and were not crushed. They have great power because they attacked Gouki and it hurt. Or at least Gouki knew it would be best if he avoid their attacks.
That's [B]PURE Speculation, none of them has ever demonstrated any skill that indicated otherwise.[/B]
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarSo you think Gouki can't run on water.
Hayabusa with speed can:-Run on water
-Run on walls
-Leave after images
-Block bullets from multiple automatic firearms
-Dissapear with pure speedrun on water or run on walls.
So Gouki does not leave after images?
So Gouki can't block bullets, can Gouki even be hurt by bullets?
So Gouki can't disappear with pure speed?
Gouki is capable of leaping into space in seconds.
So after Gouki destroyed his island he hopped in the water and swam to new land
Gouki can crush montains and boats yet he can't run on water Or block bullets?
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarIn the form NG uses it, it's magic. Real Ninpo that uses ki/Chi has nothing to do with fire ice and all that crap. Real Nimpo is mindfulness and the awareness of ones surroundings. Strategy and subtly manipulating ones opponent. The art of controlling the distance. Learning to recognize and how to use what is at hand. It consists of striking techniques, throwing techniques, choking techniques, and ground pinning techniques. Haybusa's "Ninpo" utilizes none of that. Hayabusa uses Ninpo Spells not Ninpo.
Yes it is, ninpo is ki manipulation. It's called kuji-in, a types of techniques which originated from the yamabushi and moutain hermits. There many different types of Ki in japanese martial arts and mysticism. Such as: Rei-Ki, Ai-Ki,Sai-Ki and etc..
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarDidn't say that, but you make it seem just because he's from NG he's supposed to be faster.
So, because he's been training longer he has better evasion?
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarHe hasn't done anything that Gouki is not capable of. until this guy is capable of jumping into space in a few second, I see him in no way faster. besides speed isn't everything,. Gouki surpasses him on many other levels
Did I say that, hayabusa is faster and sharper because he's demonstrated it several times
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarSo now Gouki can't beat Tengu, you gotta be kiddin me... Hayabusa beat guy who can supposedly cover the world in clouds of chaos, yet he himself can't even sink an island. If Tengu can bring chaos to the world, why didn't he do it, why didn't he use this power against an unarmed none plot deviced Hayabusa?No one even know how long it would take Tengu to even "cover the world in chaos', it could take years for all we know. What's happened to you Ashtar?
How about ddefeating tengu, a being that covered the planet in a cloud of choas.
Originally posted by Remulous
No Genfu can't. Your missing my point. My point isn't that he destroyed a comet, my point is, [COLOR=red]HE CAN![/COLOR]
He can based on what, it's pure speculation because gouki has HAS NEVER JUMPED INTO SPACE AND DESTROYED AN ASTEROID
And genfu can kill with a blow.
Originally posted by remulous
Yes they have, Gouki can crush mountains with punches. They got punched by Gouki and were not crushed. They have great power because they attacked Gouki and it hurt. Or at least Gouki knew it would be best if he avoid their attacks.[/B]
What are you talking about, the specifics of their fights are ambiguos. We don't know what happened and even if we did, how is durability equal to striking power?!
Originally posted by remulousNo, I don't because he's NEVER demonstrated that ability.
So you think Gouki can't run on water.[/B]
Originally posted by remulous
So Gouki does not leave after images?[/B]
Yeah, he can but he doesn't mean they are the same speed. Hayabusa has consistently proved his speed. Gouki on the other hand hasn't ever demonstrated super speed on a regular basis.
Originally posted by remulous
So Gouki can't block bullets, can Gouki even be hurt by bullets?[/B]
When has gouki ever blocked bullets?
Originally posted by remulous
So Gouki can't disappear with pure speed?[/B]
Perhaps...
Originally posted by remulous
Gouki is capable of leaping into space in seconds.
No, he can't, fighting jam is not canon.
Originally posted by remulous
So after Gouki destroyed his island he hopped in the water and swam to new land[/B]
Originally posted by remulous
Gouki can crush montains and boats yet he can't run on water Or block bullets?[/COLOR][/B]
What does crushing moutains have to do with runnig on water, your acting like gouki can do anything?!
Originally posted by remulous
In the form NG uses it, it's magic. Real Ninpo that uses ki/Chi has nothing to do with fire ice and all that crap. Real Nimpo is mindfulness and the awareness of ones surroundings. Strategy and subtly manipulating ones opponent. The art of controlling the distance. Learning to recognize and how to use what is at hand. It consists of striking techniques, throwing techniques, choking techniques, and ground pinning techniques. Haybusa's "Ninpo" utilizes none of that. Hayabusa uses Ninpo Spells not Ninpo.[/B]
Have you read the description of his ninpo, he uses ki. And what does real ninpo have to with this, your discussing characters jumpng into space and now your bringing real martial arts into it? Kuji-in is part of the ninja principle and involves ki.
Originally posted by remulous
Didn't say that, but you make it seem just because he's from NG he's supposed to be faster.[/B]
No, I believe he's faster because he's consistenly proved his speed and his evasion. Gouki has not, your acting like gouki is a "Jack of all trades"
Originally posted by remulousGouken can't jump into space yet beat gouki, so, what's your point? And he has never jumped into space.
He hasn't done anything that Gouki is not capable of. until this guy is capable of jumping into space in a few second, [/B]
Originally posted by remulous
I see him in no way faster. besides speed isn't everything,. Gouki surpasses him on many other levels
[/B]
Your entitled to your opinion, but I believe he's fasteer and he has demonstrated way more martial skill than gouki.
Originally posted by remulousGen can't sink islands yet, he managed to stalemate gouki? But, hayabusa can't?
So now Gouki can't beat Tengu, you gotta be kiddin me... Hayabusa beat guy who can supposedly cover the world in clouds of chaos, yet he himself can't even sink an island.
Originally posted by remulousIf Tengu can bring chaos to the world, why didn't he do it, why didn't he use this power against an unarmed none plot deviced Hayabusa?No one even know how long it would take Tengu to even "cover the world in chaos', it could take years for all we know. What's happened to you Ashtar?
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Based on what, without his weapons ryu can shoot ki blast that are capable of destroying jet aircraft. So, how is he weaker without them, and TDS is the only plot device in the game, the rest of his weapons aren't plot devices.
On the fact that Hayabusa is inconceivably more powerful with them than without them, Destroying Aircraft is no big feat Emp, You know that.
the swords enabled him to tackle world killers like the Vigoor Emperor and the Dark Dragon., thats the plot device, without the swwords, Haya would be deader than a doorknob and you know it...
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarBased on the fact that when the art for the CFE endings were presented to the public everyone commented on how awesome of a feat it was and questioned was he really that strong, UDON never denied that Gouki was not capable. I'm threw arguing about this Gen Fu crap, I've never seen anything that makes me think he can kill with 1 blow.
He can based on what, it's pure speculation because gouki has [B] HAS NEVER JUMPED INTO SPACE AND DESTROYED AN ASTEROIDAnd genfu can kill with a blow. [/B]
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarSo they just stood there and looked at each other? No one got a hit in, everyone left their battles unscathed? Gouki just took punches and didn't try to dodge them or block them? What kind of fight were they having with Gouki, a chess match?
What are you talking about, the specifics of their fights are ambiguos. We don't know what happened and even if we did, how is durability equal to striking power?!
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarSo you actually think Gouki swims?
No, I don't because he's [B] NEVER demonstrated that ability.[/B]
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarWhen?
Yeah, he can but he doesn't mean they are the same speed. Hayabusa has consistently proved his speed. Gouki on the other hand hasn't ever demonstrated super speed on a regular basis.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarHe's blocked instant death attacks, that beats the shit outta dodging bullets
When has gouki ever blocked bullets?
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarI know that, but he's still capable, why are you not understanding that?
No, he can't, fighting jam is not canon.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarSo Gouki spends his whole life training in power and not speed? I'm saying, Gouki is just as fast as he is strong. You make Haybusa sound like he can do anything, like crush mountains with a punch with out his TDS. Or like he is just gonna run circles around Gouki
What does crushing moutains have to do with runnig on water, your acting like gouki can do anything?!
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarAt least what Gouki uses is chi, it is just pushed to the extremes but the fundamentals are the same. What Hayabusa does when he uses ninpo has nothing to do with actual ninpo. It's like saying your gonna use a chi blast but you throw a cocktail bomb at some one, that aint chi. If it was chi, why must he obtain it not learn it? If it was chi why must he upgrade it with trinkets and not train for it?
Have you read the description of his ninpo, he uses ki. And what does real ninpo have to with this, your discussing characters jumpng into space and now your bringing real martial arts into it? Kuji-in is part of the ninja principle and involves ki.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarGouki is a jack of all trades. You make it seem as if Gouki only trains for power and not speed. For 1 running on water has almost nothing to do with speed. For 2, Ryu can dodge bullets from a few feet away when he was in his young days, Gouki is over 5X as fast that. For 3, Gouki can teleport as well.
No, I believe he's faster because he's consistenly proved his speed and his evasion. Gouki has not, your acting like gouki is a "Jack of all trades"
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarDude, do you know how long ago Gouken and Gouki fought. At that time Gouki was just discovering his power. That was before SFA 1...a LOOOOOONG time ago.
Gouken can't jump into space yet beat gouki, so, what's your point? And he has never jumped into space.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarWell...that's what you believe.
Your entitled to your opinion, but I believe he's fasteer and he has demonstrated way more martial skill than gouki.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarGen can kill with a touch, Hayabusa can not. Do you have any idea how badly Gen will be beaten by a current Gouki?
Gen can't sink islands yet, he managed to stalemate gouki? But, hayabusa can't?
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroRyu's power is the Dark Dragon's with the Dark Dragon Blade. Anyone who uses the Dark Dragon Blade turns into Incarnate, so I would consider the True Dragon Sword as a plot device for someone; not the DDB since it turns the wielder into someone else.
They are plot devices because they are used to enhance the plot in a method he himself couldn't do on his own.For example, the DD, Ryu couldn't defeat it without the TDS. Nor is Ryu anywhere near as powerful without them.
No, it isn't. Ryu wouldn't be himself any longer once he wields the Dark Dragon Blade; he would be someone else. If someone makes a topic involving the Devil Incarnate, by default, it's any person with the Dark Dragon Blade. Incarnate's power is the Dark Dragon's.
Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Vigoor's power can split the Earth; the Dark Dragon's power is on par with Vigoor's.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestAre you kidding me? Bankotsu would kill Geese easily. Bankotsu is far more superior than the likes of humans. Secondly, he would grab Geese, jump for hundreds of feet up in the air, and slam him into the ground. The least that would do is cripple him. Oh, and you should see Bankotsu's piledriver. That would splatter Geese's brains all over the place.
Bankotsu? Please, don't bring of the pathetic weaklings DOA calls bosses into this. Geese would kill Bankotsu easily. And we already argued and proved that even his PIS filled swords wouldn't save him from God Rugal.
Lastly, the Devil Incarnate would take out God Rugal with hardly any effort.
Originally posted by Superboy PrimeBut Capcom has still stated that the characters are capable. I don't debate that the characters accomplished these feats, I debate that they are capable.(which Capcom and UDON clearly stated).
...Udon Comics, anime mangas and everything else outside the SF canon is pretty much useless in a discussion like this.
At least it's easier to debate for Ryu since pretty much everything he has done is strictly canon. Whether people like it or not.
Originally posted by Superboy PrimeTecmo/Team Ninja never stated Hayabusa was capable, did they?
So...Ryu is capable of unleashing the Dark Dragon since Murai was capable of accomplishing such a feat while you fought him at the end of the game.I'd rather debate with what the characters have actually accomplished canon-wise. Makes for better & clear debates without loopholes.
Originally posted by Superboy PrimeBut they never say he is capable, no matter how obvious it seems.
No. Why would they? You are actually shown what Ryu can do.Oh you were talking about the Dark Dragon summon, right? Why would he not be able to? Whoever wields the Dark Dragon becomes the Devil Incarnate.