If it was part of the game there wouldn't be a problem. It's the same stuff as dealing with SW movies and EU. You can argue all you want that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin can do everything they did in the Clone Wars etc, but the movie being the primary source of canon contradicts that. Same goes for SFer & Ryu dodging bullets and busting buildings while not being able to dodge a signed autograph from Dan being thrown at him.
Originally posted by King Nothing
Akuma is so gonna kill Ayane.
...
This thread has drifted so far out of topic I don't feel like posting in it anymore.
Yeah. Poor kunoichi stands no chance in hell. Facts are facts and Ayane is going to get mauled, assaulted, raped, wtfpawned by the Supreme Master of the Fist.
I'm out.
Originally posted by Superboy Prime.You got it all wrong, if Capcom says its possible then it is, they are the ones who created the game. Every one knows that Dan throwing a picture isn't even from SF. And in a real bout, we all know Dan will get his ass kicked seeings how he lost to Sakura. Just wanted to throw that last bit out there.
If it was part of the game there wouldn't be a problem. It's the same stuff as dealing with SW movies and EU. You can argue all you want that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin can do everything they did in the Clone Wars etc, but the movie being the primary source of canon contradicts that. Same goes for SFer & Ryu dodging bullets and busting buildings while not being able to dodge a signed autograph from Dan being thrown at him.
I'm not going to respond to the DDB comment but I will say that this thread is more off topic then it is on topic. 95% of this thread has nothing to do with Gouki VS Ayane and if it were not for King Nothing I wouldn't even have noticed. 15 pages and only like the 1st 3 pertain to the actual fight 😆
Originally posted by lightnessDo you have any idea how fanboyish it sounds saying Akuma can take on a being who's power is equal to Vigoor's, which can do this.
do you have any idea how fanboyish it sounds saying ryu can take on a guy that can instantly send him to hell and destroy mountains/islands with a punch, and destroy comets from space with a hadouken.
Originally posted by Remulous
Based on the fact that when the art for the CFE endings were presented to the public everyone commented on how awesome of a feat it was and questioned was he really that strong, UDON never denied that Gouki was not capable. I'm threw arguing about this Gen Fu crap, I've never seen anything that makes me think he can kill with 1 blow.
CFE is not canon, it's a cross over nowhere has it been indicated to be canon. So, why do you bvring it up? And you done is not the authority on canon, show me capcom saying that gouki can do this indefinetly and you will have a point.
Originally posted by Remulous
So they just stood there and looked at each other? No one got a hit in, everyone left their battles unscathed? Gouki just took punches and didn't try to dodge them or block them? What kind of fight were they having with Gouki, a chess match?
The fight was ambigous, whe don't know what exactly happened and even if we did. How does surviving punches from gouki mean they can destroy moutains?
Originally posted by RemulousNo, I thing he fly's with cape on his back. 🙄 Gouki has never been shown to walk on water, but according to you he can because it's unlikely to swim?! C'mon, and you had the audacity to call someone a fanboy when you make arguments like that.
So you actually think Gouki swims?
Originally posted by Remulous
He's blocked instant death attacks, that beats the shit outta dodging bullets
No, it doesn't, and I said hayabusa reacts to bullets to block them. How does punches>>> bullets according to you?
Originally posted by Remulous
I know that, but he's still capable, why are you not understanding that?
Because it's SPECULATION, and your acting like it's the stone cold truth.
Originally posted by Remulous
So Gouki spends his whole life training in power and not speed? I'm saying, Gouki is just as fast as he is strong. You make Haybusa sound like he can do anything, like crush mountains with a punch with out his TDS. Or like he is just gonna run circles around Gouki
So, because gouki is gouki he's faster than hayabusa. He's never demonstrated consistent high-level speed. Why can't you get that?
Originally posted by Remulous
At least what Gouki uses is chi, it is just pushed to the extremes but the fundamentals are the same. What Hayabusa does when he uses ninpo has nothing to do with actual ninpo. It's like saying your gonna use a chi blast but you throw a cocktail bomb at some one, that aint chi. If it was chi, why must he obtain it not learn it? If it was chi why must he upgrade it with trinkets and not train for it?
What your saying is completely arbitary, how can you compare real life ninpo to remulous. With that logic I could say gouki's muderous intent is nothing like real life principle of muderous intent or Sai-ki.
And he upgrades it because it's a game mechanic, and lets' not forget the main thing. Ki just means energy, and can be used in multiple context. There are different types of ki in japanese lore.
Originally posted by Remulous
Gouki is a jack of all trades.
Based on what?
Originally posted by Remulous
You make it seem as if Gouki only trains for power and not speed. For 1 running on water has almost nothing to do with speed.
Yes it does, by your logic I guess flash can run on water with out his powers huh?
Originally posted by Remulous
For 2, Ryu can dodge bullets from a few feet away when he was in his young days, Gouki is over 5X as fast that. For 3, Gouki can teleport as well.
Gouki has never dodged bullets before, and gouki can't teleport asura senku is a speed move. which is why he never acually disappears.
Originally posted by Remulous
Dude, do you know how long ago Gouken and Gouki fought. At that time Gouki was just discovering his power. That was before SFA 1...a LOOOOOONG time ago.
So, what the point still stands gouki stalemates or loses to people who have never crushed moutains.
Originally posted by Remulous
Gen can kill with a touch, Hayabusa can not. Do you have any idea how badly Gen will be beaten by a current Gouki?
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroNo, they are not. His weapons have no magical properties what's so ever. All his essence attacks are hayabusa's Skill. The only weapon that is a plot device is the True Dragon Blade because it allows him to fight against the DARk Dragon Blade.
On the fact that Hayabusa is inconceivably more powerful with them than without them, Destroying Aircraft is no big feat Emp, You know that.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroIt's only for the Dark Dragon Blade.
the swords enabled him to tackle world killers like the Vigoor Emperor and the Dark Dragon., thats the plot device, without the swwords, Haya would be deader than a doorknob and you know it...
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
No, they are not. His weapons have no magical properties what's so ever. All his essence attacks are hayabusa's [B]Skill. The only weapon that is a plot device is the True Dragon Blade because it allows him to fight against the DARk Dragon Blade.It's only for the Dark Dragon Blade. [/B]
So basically, everything Cloud has said in reguards to the swords has been BS right?
That tears it,in the words of Cartman "Screw you guys, I'm going home."
This is it, after this I am done.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
CFE is not canon, it's a cross over nowhere has it been indicated to be canon. So, why do you bvring it up? And you done is not the authority on canon, show me capcom saying that gouki can do this indefinetly and you will have a point.[/B]
*sigh*I know it's not canon Ashtar. When the art for the ending was talked about on various Capcom sites, no one ever stepped in and stated that Gouki was not capable. When the art was shown on deviant art, and every one stated, was Gouki capable or that it was really powerful, UDON never said he wasn't, that they just made Gouki that powerful for no reason. Until Capcom or an employee who browses the forums or until UDON says that Capcom says that Gouki is not capable and the fans are wrong, it is as it is. He is capable until proven wrong. I don't know if you know this or not, but many Capcom and UDON workers appear on their own forums. And can easily say no, Gouki is not capable, they don't, so until they do, Gouki can. There are even threads on the sites asking this very question, yet UDON nor Capcom have yet to deny it.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarNever said they could destroy mountains, I only said they were powerful enough to hurt Gouki.
The fight was ambigous, whe don't know what exactly happened and even if we did. How does surviving punches from gouki mean they can destroy moutains?
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarI never called anyone a fanboy. I don't even use that term. The only time I'll call someone a fanboy is if I'm addressed as one 1st. You have the nerve to talk about my argument when your whole argument is crap. You keep yapping about speed, like Gouki is a f**kin turtle compared to Hayabusa. You yap on and on about how fast he is like that's the only thing that matters. Hayabusa lacks the physical strength, the experience, the fire power, the feats, durability, and every damn thing else needed to win a HAND TO HAND battle. Get real Ashtar. You argument is 1 huge load and you know it better then anyone else.
No, I thing he fly's with cape on his back. 🙄 Gouki has never been shown to walk on water, but according to you he can because it's unlikely to swim?! C'mon, and you had the audacity to call someone a fanboy when you make arguments like that.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarSince when has Hayabusa blocked bullets with his hand? Since when is a bullet more dangerous then instant death? Ryu dodged bullets and he was young,
No, it doesn't, and I said hayabusa reacts to bullets to block them. How does punches>>> bullets according to you?
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarWhat ever dude I've already went over this. Gouki doesn't even need that feat, Gouki has still shown that he has the power to do away with Hayabusa.
Because it's [B]SPECULATION, and your acting like it's the stone cold truth.[/B]
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarWhy can't you get that just because Gouki has not shown his speed, that does not make him slow. Has Gouki shown himself to be slow, no. Is Gouki fast enough to dodge bullets and then some, yes. Why? because Ryu can do it. Is that fast? Yes. Fast enough? Yes.
So, because gouki is gouki he's faster than hayabusa. He's never demonstrated consistent high-level speed. Why can't you get that?
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarIs Gouki's chi called Sai-ki, has it been labeled under Sai-ki, has Gouki ever even uttered the word Sai-ki? Satsui No Hadou is a fictional chi and therefore it's own chi, and can't be labeled under any form of real chi. The only thing that matters is it's chi, and it works the same way the real one works, training and practice. Now is Haybusa's so called chi called ninpo? Yes, does it work like ninpo? No. Has it been called a spell? Yes
What your saying is completely arbitary, how can you compare real life ninpo to remulous. With that logic I could say gouki's muderous intent is nothing like real life principle of muderous intent or Sai-ki.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarIs there any proof outside the games that lead me to believe he does not need to upgrade his chi with items or that he needs to obtain the items in order to even use it? No. They could've simply made it a skill that you power up by becoming stronger. Did they? No. Does that lead me to think he needs those items? Yes. Has he ever been shown training to enhance his ninpo? No
And he upgrades it because it's a game mechanic, and lets' not forget the main thing. [B]Ki just means energy, and can be used in multiple context. There are different types of ki in japanese lore.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarThe fact he's stronger than Ryu and Ryu is no slouch in any department. Or the fact he's beat nearly ever character he came up against.
Based on what?
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarContrary to your belief my logic is correct. Focus your mind and chi at the bottom of your feet when you walk across. The Jesus lizard is not faster than a bullet yet it can run across water. When Naruto was traing he literally tip toed on water before he could actually run across it. in the game Hayabusa runs across water but it is not as lightning fast as you make it seem. The Flash runs across water because he is godly fast, Haybusa does it because it's a technique, not speed.
Yes it does, by your logic I guess flash can run on water with out his powers huh?
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarRyu has and Gouki is better then Ryu. The Ashura Senku has never been used out side of actual gameplay, so no one really knows what it does, even so, it still makes Gouki incredibly quick.
Gouki has never dodged bullets before, and gouki can't teleport asura senku is a speed move. which is why he never acually disappears.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarYou have no proof that they are not capable.
So, what the point still stands gouki stalemates or loses to people who have never crushed moutains.
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarSince Hayabusa has no instant death attacks Gouki will be able to eat Haybusa's attacks even more.
Gen's death touch had no effect on gouki, he did a Zan'Ei and gouki ate it. So, who cares of hayabusa doesn't have one.
I've said what I needed to say. And I'm done. This thread is GOUKI VS Ayane after all.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroYou didn't understand his point. He was saying Ryu's skill WITHOUT the DS are his. That means he can fight in H2H comat, execute techniques that involve ki/chi attacks, etc.
So basically, everything Cloud has said in reguards to the swords has been BS right?That tears it,in the words of Cartman "Screw you guys, I'm going home."
The plot device is only for the Dark Dragon Blade and that's pretty much correct, since it was what gave Incarnate his hellish power. The only other thing was that the VE was infused with the power of the Evil Deities as well as the Dark Dragon, so the Dark Dragon and the Evil Deities were what Ryu needed to use the TDS against.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
So basically, everything Cloud has said in reguards to the swords has been BS right?That tears it,in the words of Cartman "Screw you guys, I'm going home."
Looking for an easy way out, huh?
I don't see how everything he said is negated by that. The sword's PIS involves the Dark Dragon Blade. Everything else is Ryu's skills behind the sword as I've said numerous times in this thread before...bah I posted again...
*Vanishes*
Originally posted by Remulous
Is Gouki's chi called Sai-ki, has it been labeled under Sai-ki, has Gouki ever even uttered the word Sai-ki? Satsui No Hadou is a fictional chi and therefore it's own chi, and can't be labeled under any form of real chi. The only thing that matters is it's chi, and it works the same way the real one works, training and practice. Now is Haybusa's so called chi called ninpo? Yes, does it work like ninpo? No. Has it been called a spell? Yes. Is there any proof outside the games that lead me to believe he does not need to upgrade his chi with items or that he needs to obtain the items in order to even use it? No. They could've simply made it a skill that you power up by becoming stronger. Did they? No. Does that lead me to think he needs those items? Yes. Has he ever been shown training to enhance his ninpo? No.
Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Since we've learned as far that Ryu has the Dragon Sword back, and probably never gave up the Spirit Sword, this adventure leaves him with the power of both.Another difference: use of "chi."
In this new version, Ryu would be able to channel his chi anytime he wishes, giving each move a little more punch. In the blue print are Ryu's sword moves, and the red print shows his power moves.
http://www.geocities.com/gamesterlair/NG4Ryu.html
This also has a connection with the fact that Ryu is able to manipulate his chi into balls of energy and channel it into his weapon when he's performing an ultimate technique. As for upgrading ninpo, each spell does have a limit. However, there are different ninpo spells with different destructive and massive levels.
Ryu has ki/chi-based attacks. The attack he uses in DOA4 isn't a spell, it's his chi. Also, some ninpo techniques are based on ki/chi, some are magical spells. i.e., Inazuma allows the user to amplify his or her bioelectric current and blast it out to the surrounding area. Ice Storm is a spell that allows the user to change the atmosphere around him/her. All of the ultimate techniques in NG are powered up by Ryu's spiritual energy, and/or spiritual essence in the vicinity.
Originally posted by Superboy PrimeI'm sure he's not looking for an easy way out, he doesn't want to waste his time arguing it anymore, because it's not even on topic for Christ's sake.
Looking for an easy way out, huh?I don't see how everything he said is negated by that. The sword's PIS involves the Dark Dragon Blade. Everything else is Ryu's skills behind the sword as I've said numerous times in this thread before...bah I posted again...
*Vanishes*
Originally posted by Remulous
This is it, after this I am done.*sigh*I know it's not canon Ashtar. When the art for the ending was talked about on various Capcom sites, no one ever stepped in and stated that Gouki was not capable.
So, because no one opposed it, it's canon. I guess if CFE showed gouki stalemating jesus in h2h combat. Because no one objects it would be canon in your eye's?
Originally posted by Remulous
When the art was shown on deviant art, and every one stated, was Gouki capable or that it was really powerful, UDON never said he wasn't, that they just made Gouki that powerful for no reason. Until Capcom or an employee who browses the forums or until UDON says that Capcom says that Gouki is not capable and the fans are wrong, it is as it is. He is capable until proven wrong.
Udon is not authority on canon, and by your logic because capcom hasn't said it's not canon he's automatically capable of it?! So, I guess gouki can jump into heaven and challenge god becuase of an SVC: Choas ending, right?
Originally posted by Remulous
I don't know if you know this or not, but many Capcom and UDON workers appear on their own forums. And can easily say no, Gouki is not capable, they don't, so until they do, Gouki can.
Capcom has stated many times that no media I.e anime, comics, cross overs are canon unless specified.So, until you show me a valid source proving that's it's canon, your argument is useless.
Originally posted by Remulous
There are even threads on the sites asking this very question, yet UDON nor Capcom have yet to deny it.
Or confirmed it, which is what I'm waiting for.
Originally posted by Remulous
[COLOR=green]Never said they could destroy mountains, I only said they were powerful enough to hurt Gouki.
Yes you did
Originally posted by Remulous
[COLOR=green] I never called anyone a fanboy. I don't even use that term. The only time I'll call someone a fanboy is if I'm addressed as one 1st. You have the nerve to talk about my argument when your whole argument is crap.[/color]That's funny coming from someone who claims gouki can walk on water, fly into space, and and destroy asteroid because of an ending from a crossover.
[QUOTE=8497043]Originally posted by Remulous
You keep yapping about speed, like Gouki is a f**kin turtle compared to Hayabusa. You yap on and on about how fast he is like that's the only thing that matters. Hayabusa lacks the physical strength, the experience, the fire power, the feats, durability, and every damn thing else needed to win a HAND TO HAND battle.
Bullshit,bullshit,bullshit your telling me someone that has taken down an entire country and their medium sized military, armed forces, and pantheon of dieties can't stand a chance against gouki.
Originally posted by Remulous
[COLOR=green]Since when has Hayabusa blocked bullets with his hand? Since when is a bullet more dangerous then instant death? Ryu dodged bullets and he was young,
current Gouki is leagues above that. Blocking bullets with a sword is no feat over Gouki, so that's dead.
When did I say he could block bullets with his hand? I said he reacts to bullets as a testament to his speed. And, now your implying shungokusatsu is faster than bullets?!
Originally posted by Remulous
[COLOR=green]What ever dude I've already went over this. Gouki doesn't even need that feat, Gouki has still shown that he has the power to do away with Hayabusa.
Originally posted by RemulousBecause he's never shown any remarkable speed or anything better than hayabusa that's why. And, I never said he was slow, I just stated that Hayabusa has demonstrated consistent speed feats.
[COLOR=green]Why can't you get that just because Gouki has not shown his speed, that does not make him slow. Has Gouki shown himself to be slow, no.
Originally posted by Remulous
Is Gouki fast enough to dodge bullets and then some, yes. Why? because Ryu can do it. Is that fast? Yes. Fast enough? Yes.
And I ask again, when has gouki dodged bullets?
Originally posted by Remulous
[COLOR=green]Is Gouki's chi called Sai-ki, has it been labeled under Sai-ki, has Gouki ever even uttered the word Sai-ki? Satsui No Hadou is a fictional chi and therefore it's own chi, and can't be labeled under any form of real chi.
Satsu No Hadou is based of Sai-ki which is the Real Muderous Intent it's ki or energy living creatures give off before murder.
Originally posted by RemulousAnd does Satsu No Hadou work like Sai-Ki? And I told you what type of ninpo Hayabusa uses, it's called Kuji-in which is the ninpo of japanese lore.
The only thing that matters is it's chi, and it works the same way the real one works, training and practice. Now is Haybusa's so called chi called ninpo? Yes, does it work like ninpo? No, Has it been called a spell? Yes
Originally posted by RemulousHe uses technique scrolls genius that teach how to use the ninpo it's the same as a martial arts manual/record.
Is there any proof outside the games that lead me to believe he does not need to upgrade his chi with items or that he needs to obtain the items in order to even use it? No
Originally posted by Remulous
. They could've simply made it a skill that you power up by becoming stronger. Did they? No. Does that lead me to think he needs those items? Yes. Has he ever been shown training to enhance his ninpo? No[/color]So, becuase he isn't shown training despite having less showings than gouki he doesn't use real ninpo despite the fact he's a fictional character? What relvance does real ninpo have with this debat anyway?
[QUOTE=8497043]Originally posted by Remulous
Contrary to your belief my logic is correct. Focus your mind and chi at the bottom of your feet when you walk across. The Jesus lizard is not faster than a bullet yet it can run across water. When Naruto was traing he literally tip toed on water before he could actually run across it. in the game Hayabusa runs across water but it is not as lightning fast as you make it seem. The Flash runs across water because he is godly fast, Haybusa does it because it's a technique, not speed.
Ryu has and Gouki is better then Ryu. The Ashura Senku has never been used out side of actual gameplay, so no one really knows what it does, even so, it still makes Gouki incredibly quick.
You have no proof that they are not capable.
Since Hayabusa has no instant death attacks Gouki will be able to eat Haybusa's attacks even more.I've said what I needed to say. And I'm done. This thread is GOUKI VS Ayane after all.
