The Apocalypse Respect Thread

Originally posted by demarius_b
Ash and Prime, the question is, couldn't Magneto have done that to nearly anyone who was stupid enough to let him. Apocalypse was cocky in that fight, he was easily far stronger than Magneto. Come on, he was toying with Magneto. Earlier, it was Magneto and Nate Grey teamed up against him, and at best they were just holding him back, cuz as soon as Holocaust showed up, Apoc was quickly all in Magneto's face!!

What Magneto did took a lot of concentration and time to build up enough to rip him apart. I could see that easily happening to Hulk, Thanos, and many others, if they gave Magneto enough time to do it without finishing him off, no matter how strong they are physically. To tear someone apart on the atomic level isn't a physical feat, but one based off the nature of his powers.

In other timelines (what if's?? if guess) Apocalypse and Magneto have either killed each other, bested one or the other, or have come to a stalemate. All I know is, in the end... Magneto will eventually die from a battle or from old age, and Apocalypse will always find someway to return. Since the AoA universe didn't happen in the 616 continuity, we'll never know if he eventually returned or not...

Where was it stated that MAgneto tore him apart at the atomic level? From what I saw, it looked like an iron-in-the-blood trick.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
It's from a What If issue that showed what would happen if Legion had killed both Xavier and Magneto.

Apocalypse's Horseman were; Hulk, Storm, Namor and Juggernaut.

Which issue was this? I want to get it!

Originally posted by Rutog98
Which issue was this? I want to get it!

What If? Age of Apocalypse

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
What If? Age of Apocalypse

Did Storm do anything impressive in there?

Originally posted by Rutog98
I just disregard that. Lots of Apocalypse's powers were written out of the fight so Magneto could win.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Where was it stated that MAgneto tore him apart at the atomic level?

So, yeah. He kinda was ripped apart at an atomic level.
Meh...

Originally posted by Rutog98
From what I saw, it looked like an iron-in-the-blood trick.

Either way though, AoA Apocalypse was just one of those powerful bad guys that was far too cocky, allowing him to get carelessly beaten by someone normally weaker than himself (at least that's what I gathered from the whole thing).

(1) There are not many Marvel characters who are PHYSICALLY (not energy) stronger than Apocalypse. Come on!! He can physically restrain a pissed off HULK!!
(2) Apocalypse has the ability to constantly evolve by absorbing other substances and technology (i.e. Celestial tech, Techo-organic virus, abilities from other mutants). Who else can do that? Cable... NO. Magneto... NO.
(3) Magneto, Prof. X, and others don't have the ability to return from the dead or transfer their essence AND POWERS, to other bodies. If and when Marvel ever really kills anyone (cough**Capt. America**cough), they're technically dead for good.
(4) And even though he gets JOBBED constantly in the normal Marvel timeline, there seems to be thousands of other timelines where he is (or was) the dominant force on the planet.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Either way though, AoA Apocalypse was just one of those powerful bad guys that was far too cocky, allowing him to get carelessly beaten by someone normally weaker than himself (at least that's what I gathered from the whole thing).

Originally posted by alfmartinez
emm
is it there a panel where he is shown been born?
he was left there in the middle of the desert. Maybe he is etiopian.. or sudanian or libian. And still nothing known about his parents yet

that's my point 😛 of course i believe he is egyptian that would make more sense

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Heh. I guess that's true (for AoA anyway), but in other comics (most of which were also non-canon), the master of magnetism and the ancient Egyptian fought equally well against each other.

Basically, when Magneto was getting toyed around with by Apocalypse, he used that time to magnetically charge the body of the ancient mutant. Crackling with electro-magnetic energy, to the point Apoc. was ripped apart.

So, yeah. He kinda was ripped apart at an atomic level.
Meh...

Hmm. I guess it could be that too.

Either way though, AoA Apocalypse was just one of those powerful bad guys that was far too cocky, allowing him to get carelessly beaten by someone normally weaker than himself (at least that's what I gathered from the whole thing).

The point I am making is this, irregardless of what Marvel writes, Magneto's power set cannot beat Apocalypse's. He can absorb and rechannel energies used against him. In other words, Magneto should not be able to tear him apart. He would first have to get a magnetic hold on Poccy. Poccy can absorb that energy and grow stronger or throw it back in his face (Bishop, who is far weaker than Apocalypse, absorbed Magneto's powers and threw it back in his face when Mags tried to grab the iron in his bloodstream). All Magneto can try and do is throw things at Poccy. That's not going to work since he can open holes in his body to let the metal pass through, erect force-fields to deflect it or teleport out of the way. Meanwhile, he should be able to take Magneto out easily. If Magneto puts a field up, he could teleport next to it and touch it to absorb it. He can then just blast the heck out of Magneto or impale him on one of his arms.

Realistally, Magneto has no way of winning this.

Originally posted by Rutog98
The point I am making is this, irregardless of what Marvel writes, Magneto's power set cannot beat Apocalypse's. He can absorb and rechannel energies used against him. In other words, Magneto should not be able to tear him apart. He would first have to get a magnetic hold on Poccy. Poccy can absorb that energy and grow stronger or throw it back in his face (Bishop, who is far weaker than Apocalypse, absorbed Magneto's powers and threw it back in his face when Mags tried to grab the iron in his bloodstream). All Magneto can try and do is throw things at Poccy. That's not going to work since he can open holes in his body to let the metal pass through, erect force-fields to deflect it or teleport out of the way. Meanwhile, he should be able to take Magneto out easily. If Magneto puts a field up, he could teleport next to it and touch it to absorb it. He can then just blast the heck out of Magneto or impale him on one of his arms.

Realistally, Magneto has no way of winning this.

they wanted to give that era an end...
just that..
probably then apocalypse would have recovered but the story end there with apocalypse in the floor

and there isn't a panel where En Sabah Nur is shown with his parents or mother at least. He could well be an alien (maybe? who knows)

I miss the old classic comics, I have no idea what is happining in the new ones.

Originally posted by alfmartinez
and there isn't a panel where En Sabah Nur is shown with his parents or mother at least.

His birth was mentioned.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/ROApage01.jpg

Originally posted by alfmartinez
they wanted to give that era an end...
just that..
probably then apocalypse would have recovered but the story end there with apocalypse in the floor

and there isn't a panel where En Sabah Nur is shown with his parents or mother at least. He could well be an alien (maybe? who knows)

I understand that they wanted to give it an end, but it was still PIS. Magneto trying to work his powers directly on Apocalypse should have only made him stronger, that's my point. They should have come out with a better way of trouncing Poccy. One that worked without devaluing the character.

This touches on one of my major gripes with Magneto. Characters are constantly devalued to make him look good. They may be enormously powerful in other arcs, but in stories where Magneto is involved, they are usually (I can't think of a single exception, actually, so I will go out on a limb and say 'always' instead of 'usually'😉 written at much weaker levels to make him look good. I think the writer just wanted to establish Magneto as being the X-Men's most powerful advasary so they devalued a much more powerful villian to achieve this.

This is something they pull with a bunch of other characters against Magneto and why I don't give him any credibility as a villain. When other characters display higher power levels than Magneto and they are constantly devalued in arcs centering around Magneto, I lose respect for Mags.

Originally posted by demarius_b
(1) There are not many Marvel characters who are PHYSICALLY (not energy) stronger than Apocalypse. Come on!! He can physically restrain a pissed off HULK!!

Originally posted by demarius_b
(2) Apocalypse has the ability to constantly evolve by absorbing other substances and technology (i.e. Celestial tech, Techo-organic virus, abilities from other mutants). Who else can do that? Cable... NO. Magneto... NO.
(3) Magneto, Prof. X, and others don't have the ability to return from the dead or transfer their essence AND POWERS, to other bodies. If and when Marvel ever really kills anyone (cough**Capt. America**cough), they're technically dead for good.
(4) And even though he gets JOBBED constantly in the normal Marvel timeline, there seems to be thousands of other timelines where he is (or was) the dominant force on the planet.

Don't think I'm tryin' to underestimate Apoc. though, 'cause I'm not. 😛

Originally posted by demarius_b
Yeah that's true... one minute, he's fighting both Magneto and Nate Grey, holding off both of them, with little effort. Next, he's your stereotypical villian, talking too much crap and giving the good guy time to devise a plan... JUST FINISH EM FOR BADNESS SAKES!!

What's funny though, is that pretty much every other version/incarnation of Apocalypse weren't that cocky or anything. He was actually very modest and observant of things (most of the time), unlike his AoA counterpart.

AoA Apoc. was dumb enough to not even notice that his body was being magnetically charged by his opponent (before his body got torn apart, that is).

Originally posted by demarius_b
What if he was put there by the Celestials to introduce super-powered mutations into the human race??

Apoc. was the first mutant after all (his real name En Sabah Nur, meaning "the first one"😉.

Originally posted by demarius_b
Also, it was never explained why he has that distinct blue line running from his mouth to ears (even as a baby)!!

Originally posted by Rutog98
The point I am making is this, irregardless of what Marvel writes, Magneto's power set cannot beat Apocalypse's. He can absorb and rechannel energies used against him. In other words, Magneto should not be able to tear him apart. He would first have to get a magnetic hold on Poccy. Poccy can absorb that energy and grow stronger or throw it back in his face (Bishop, who is far weaker than Apocalypse, absorbed Magneto's powers and threw it back in his face when Mags tried to grab the iron in his bloodstream). All Magneto can try and do is throw things at Poccy. That's not going to work since he can open holes in his body to let the metal pass through, erect force-fields to deflect it or teleport out of the way. Meanwhile, he should be able to take Magneto out easily. If Magneto puts a field up, he could teleport next to it and touch it to absorb it. He can then just blast the heck out of Magneto or impale him on one of his arms.

Realistally, Magneto has no way of winning this.

Wasn't really trying to defend Magneto there (sorry if you thought I was 😛).

But yeah. If Bishop could counter-attack the master of magnetism like that, there's no reason Apocalypse couldn't.

Originally posted by alfmartinez
they wanted to give that era an end...
just that..

I guess to the writers, the "Age of Apocalypse" was just never meant to be.

Originally posted by alfmartinez
and there isn't a panel where En Sabah Nur is shown with his parents or mother at least.

All that's known is that his parents abandoned him because of his unusual gray skin and those lips of his. Poor Apoc...

Originally posted by alfmartinez
He could well be an alien (maybe? who knows)

Although an ancient mutant, he's still an Earth creature, not an alien.

Originally posted by Rutog98
This touches on one of my major gripes with Magneto. Characters are constantly devalued to make him look good. They may be enormously powerful in other arcs, but in stories where Magneto is involved, they are usually (I can't think of a single exception, actually, so I will go out on a limb and say 'always' instead of 'usually'😉 written at much weaker levels to make him look good. I think the writer just wanted to establish Magneto as being the X-Men's most powerful advasary so they devalued a much more powerful villian to achieve this.

As much as I like Magneto, truer words about him have never been spoken...

Besides that though, how could someone whose lived for thousands of years (and with the abilities and stuff you mentioned) not be the X-Men's most powerful adversary as well?
As far as I'm concerned, Magneto and Apocalypse both are.

I wouldn't even put Magneto as the second most powerful X-villain. Apocalypse is much more powerful than he is regardless of what has happened between the two in canon. If you ask me, Shadow King is more powerful than Magneto as well and is deserving of second place.

actually i insist that magneto and apocalypse fought each other many times.. and usually they get killed both at the same time.. which makes me wonder what the hell is happenning with apocalypse.. is he dumb?

anyone with those powers can beat magneto

i imagine myself: teleport behind him, create a saw with my arm and cut him in pieces.. all that in a blink of an eye

Originally posted by alfmartinez
actually i insist that magneto and apocalypse fought each other many times.. and usually they get killed both at the same time.. which makes me wonder what the hell is happenning with apocalypse.. is he dumb?

anyone with those powers can beat magneto

i imagine myself: teleport behind him, create a saw with my arm and cut him in pieces.. all that in a blink of an eye

Tell me about it. Magneto's powers are next to useless against Apocalypse.

Originally posted by Rutog98
I wouldn't even put Magneto as the second most powerful X-villain. Apocalypse is much more powerful than he is regardless of what has happened between the two in canon. If you ask me, Shadow King is more powerful than Magneto as well and is deserving of second place.

Still though. Magneto's basically the Darth Vader of X-Men (was once good, then became bad, and all that), so it's not surprising that he's the X-Men's most represented enemy.

Originally posted by alfmartinez
actually i insist that magneto and apocalypse fought each other many times.. and usually they get killed both at the same time.. which makes me wonder what the hell is happenning with apocalypse.. is he dumb?

That, or the writers are making him dumb 😛, but you'd think someone with over 5,000 years of living and fighting experience could beat someone like Magneto with ease. 😬

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Yeah. I guess you're right. 😬 Amazing how Shadow King's so overlooked in comparison...

Still though. Magneto's basically the Darth Vader of X-Men (was once good, then became bad, and all that), so it's not surprising that he's the X-Men's most represented enemy.

I guess...

That, or the writers are making him dumb 😛, but you'd think someone with over 5,000 years of living and fighting experience could beat someone like Magneto with ease. 😬

Oh, philosophically, I agree with you about Magneto being the ultimate baddie for the X-Men. Powerwise, he's not though. Both Apocalypse and Shadow King are more powerful than he.

In regards to your second paragraph, lets not forget the ENORMOUS intellect Poccy has as well as his 5,000 years of experience. He should realistically know how to use those powers to trounce Magneto a hundred different ways. While Magneto is also intelligent (though not on Poccy's level), his powers simply does have what it takes to even make Nur break a sweat.

Jesus Christ, the amount of Magneto hate in this thread is palpable.