Punisher Vs Shang Chi

Started by Hercules10 pages

Originally posted by Alfheim

Im not talking about Frank Vs Wolverine were talking about Frank vs Shang.

DD has good showings against Wolverine and so does Frank, how comes all of a sudden Shang cant beat Wolverine, but despite this hes going to thrash Frank?

Re read my post, I wasn't talking about Frank vs Wolverine either, just that Wolverine has physical and martial advantages over Frank as far as hand to hand is concerned.

I also never said it would be an easy fight or used the word "thrash" I even gave Frank a few wins, you need to stop thinking everyone is against you, if anything I'm one of the few people here who can understand where your coming from.

I just think that Shang is taking the majority but not without a fight.

Alright, this is probably the most poiniant piece of evidence I could find without aquiring all the Chi comics written in the 70s...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOx9vRVVRQI

Mirko Cro Cop vs Bob Sapp

I'll pst a real reply in a bit, but I think this video is pretty much exactly what people are saying about this fight. Sapp is a good, ruthless and talented fighter. He soaks damage like nobody can (he uses his face to block shots frequently) and put a good hurt on most people he fights. Cro Cop is smaller, faster, and has way more experience and expertise in his style of fighting.

Originally posted by Hercules
Re read my post, I wasn't talking about Frank vs Wolverine either, just that Wolverine has physical and martial advantages over Frank as far as hand to hand is concerned.

I also never said it would be an easy fight or used the word "thrash" I even gave Frank a few wins, you need to stop thinking everyone is against you, if anything I'm one of the few people here who can understand where your coming from.

I just think that Shang is taking the majority but not without a fight.

He has a man-crush on Frank, it's not his fault.. It's the hormones.

Agreed, Shang 7/10.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Oh yeah heres the rest of the fight Shang gets curbstomped.

Your point?

Wolverine > Shang Chi >>>>>> Frank Castle.

Originally posted by Hercules
Re read my post, I wasn't talking about Frank vs Wolverine either, just that Wolverine has physical and martial advantages over Frank as far as hand to hand is concerned.

I also never said it would be an easy fight or used the word "thrash" I even gave Frank a few wins, you need to stop thinking everyone is against you, if anything I'm one of the few people here who can understand where your coming from.

I just think that Shang is taking the majority but not without a fight.

Well basically You said the fact that Shang got beaten by Wolverine isnt a bad thing. My point is both DD and Frank have good showings aginst Wolverine, why would Frank only got a few wins?

Well its like this. Its fair to belive that Shang will get the majority but I think 8/10 or above is unreasonale. Even if you havent used the word thrash alot of people seem to think Shang will.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Wait because Frank gets battered by Matt means Chi destroys Frank.

The same DD that puts Logan down and Logan easily dispatched Chi.

Or how about the same Chi that lost the the Cat and the Cat got easily owned by Taskmaster.

ABC logic does not work. Don't get me wrong Chi wins but there sure is a lot of Chi wanking in this thread.

That sums up my point better.

Originally posted by "V"
He has a man-crush on Frank, it's not his fault.. It's the hormones.

Agreed, Shang 7/10.

Shesssh gimme a break, will ya. I can go with 7/10.

Originally posted by inamilist
Alright, this is probably the most poiniant piece of evidence I could find without aquiring all the Chi comics written in the 70s...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOx9vRVVRQI

Mirko Cro Cop vs Bob Sapp

I'll pst a real reply in a bit, but I think this video is pretty much exactly what people are saying about this fight. Sapp is a good, ruthless and talented fighter. He soaks damage like nobody can (he uses his face to block shots frequently) and put a good hurt on most people he fights. Cro Cop is smaller, faster, and has way more experience and expertise in his style of fighting.

Calling Sapp a "talented" fighter is pushing it. 😉 and he has a jaw made of Glass but I can see what your saying. 😄

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well basically You said the fact that Shang got beaten by Wolverine isnt a bad thing. My point is both DD and Frank have good showings aginst Wolverine, why would Frank only got a few wins?

Well its like this. Its fair to belive that Shang will get the majority but I think 8/10 or above is unreasonale. Even if you havent used the word thrash alot of people seem to think Shang will.

This is why I gave Shang 7/10, I think 8/10 and above is a little severe too. 😉

Originally posted by Hercules
This is why I gave Shang 7/10, I think 8/10 and above is a little severe too. 😉

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Hercules
Calling Sapp a "talented" fighter is pushing it. 😉 and he has a jaw made of Glass but I can see what your saying. 😄

I meant "talented" in a relative sense. Compared to other Pro mixed MA competitors he is pretty worthless, but I would image he could take on anyone of "average" fighting ability. So, imho, good comparison to the punisher here.

Glass jaw? I don't know... I don't follow this type of stuff as much as I'd like to, but I've seen him last for a good amount of time against much more talented opponents by just soaking it up...

Originally posted by inamilist
I meant "talented" in a relative sense. Compared to other Pro mixed MA competitors he is pretty worthless, but I would image he could take on anyone of "average" fighting ability. So, imho, good comparison to the punisher here.

Glass jaw? I don't know... I don't follow this type of stuff as much as I'd like to, but I've seen him last for a good amount of time against much more talented opponents by just soaking it up...

No I agree, I could see your point entirely, he can take a lot of shots to the head and face but if you get a good one on the Jaw he falls like a sack of spuds.

Look at the Cro Cop fight you posted, one shot on the button and it was bye bye time for Sapp.

Pretty good anyalsis on the whole though I'm just not a big Sapp fan so couldn't resist! 😛

Originally posted by Hercules
No I agree, I could see your point entirely, he can take a lot of shots to the head and face but if you get a good one on the Jaw he falls like a sack of spuds.

Look at the Cro Cop fight you posted, one shot on the button and it was bye bye time for Sapp.

Pretty good anyalsis on the whole though I'm just not a big Sapp fan so couldn't resist! 😛

🙂

I hear you

I love the novelty of having him fight, but no, I wouldn't say I'm a sapp fan either

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok metal im well and truly p***ed off with you right now, but i'll try to be as civil as possible, so lets try and discuss this like civilsed gentlemen.

I know you said you like me, but sometimes I find debating with you really infuriating. I know myself that I can over react and assume people are talking rubbish, but to be quite honest recently I dont think ive been too bad.

When I debate with you I dont think you really listen to anything I have to say and every time I have scans you've always got something negative to say about it.

I want you to sit back a minute and imagine your me and see how annoying this is.

First of all I give you a set of scans which show a good showing with Frank vs DD. What do you say? Its a lucky shot. Please help me out here in the Black Panther vs Iron fist thread you said this:

I dont understand this why cant that fight be taken as evidence to prove that Frank isnt lightyears behind Shang? Already you said that you can take one piece of evidence, but not in this case.

The thing that winds me up about you is that when it comes to analysing my scans the glass is always half empty. Lets think about this, the fight was about 7 pages long...I think. At any rate it was a long fight, if it was just luck Frank would have hit DD with a lucky shot and taken him down. Dont you think its unlikely that a vastly inferior fighter would last that long against DD?

That was a viable way of looking at those scans, but nooooo your only response was its a lucky fight.

Ok then there are my second scans. Do I get a response....no. I dont get it DD doesnt even hit Frank once in that fight. Frank hits DD twice and manages to throw DD over his back. Dont you think at least you should have the etiquette to at least address the scans?

Ok third scans Frank is fighting Bullseye and the fight ends with Frank choking the life out of Bullseye. Bullseye has beaten Elecktra before, right? I would have thought that Elecktra would put up a good fight against Shang.

Metal im not trying to offend you but half of the time I feel like im talking to a brick wall. DD could probably beat Shang Chi and take a majority, but Frank has good showings against him. Bullseye and Elecktra wouldnt do badly either and Frank has beaten Bullseye. So I really really really dont understand how you should be offended.

I should be offended because ive gone to the effort of producing the scans you havent given me anything. C'mon be honest what have you given to this debate, nothing. Any scans, no. Any explanations, no. Im producing all the evidence you're giving me nothing and you're getting pissed off with me?

Look at the above scans. Shang Chi is such a good fighter that he gets curbstomped by Wolverine. If Shang Chi is so good why didnt he put up a better fight?

Now this statement winds me up.

This is the same **** you say about Cap. You say you like Cap and you think hes great, I then find you saying that you're tired of his jobber aura. Does that sound like somebody who thinks that Cap is great? Now im sure you said it I just cant find the quote.

You know what the real killer is though? You like Cap so much you came to the Cap respect thread and started arguing over minor details. In all fairness you did apologise but basically I had to ask you to leave.

My point is this, you say you think characters are incredible but what you say and what you do contradicts it. Hell you've never contributed anything positive to the Cap thread. Xmarksthespot hates Cap and hes contributed more to the thread. You like Cap so much the only thing you contributed to the Cap respect thread is negativity and your doing the same thing to Punisher.

Why are throwing a fit at me? I said nothing mean to you. I was only telling you how I interpretted your post.

Alfheim, apprently you won't believe that I actually read, understand, and actually respond to your posts unless I get a webcam so you can watch me do it.

I never ignore your posts. Why should I? The whole point is to debate. Why would I debate not knowing what I'm getting into?

I've already apologized about that Cap Respect thing. It doesn't change the fact that I like Cap a lot, he's one of my favorites. I don't know why you think just because I question some things that he does means that I can't like him. 😬

Same goes for Frank. Frank is a damn hardcore badass, and I love him. But I know his limitations.

I agree that DD would take Shang, and that's because of his superhuman powers (superhuman senses, radar sense).

I would love to produce scans for you. Unfortunately, I don't own a Shang Chi comic. I have, however, learned a lot about him over the past two years, I've seen almost all of his feats in his respect thread, and I've seen him actually perform in the recent "Heroes for Hire". Talk to a bigger Shang fan than myself, I'm sure they'll produce the scans you so desire.

My point is, I've read your posts, I've seen your scans. And while Frank is VERY impressive, it's just not impressive enough to take down Shang Chi (master of all kung-fu [...that's a lot]).

Shang wins this fight NEARLY everytime.

Originally posted by Soljer
Your point?

Wolverine > Shang Chi >>>>>> Frank Castle.

And that's mostly because of Logan's physical enhancements over Shang. Still doesn't help Frank here.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Why are throwing a fit at me? I said nothing mean to you. I was only telling you how I interpretted your post.

Well ok, you said I was pissing you off. You basically said I was acting like I was the only one who knew anything about Frank. Im getting pissed off because you did not respond to the scans and did not provide any evidence.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

I've already apologized about that Cap Respect thing. It doesn't change the fact that I like Cap a lot, he's one of my favorites. I don't know why you think just because I question some things that he does means that I can't like him. 😬

If you say im sick of Caps jobber aura does that sound like your into Cap?

Yeah I know you apologised but its a combination of things that have been winding me up. That does not change the fact that the only thing you contributed to the thread was negative. If you were really into him you would have added something positive.

Like I said you say you like Cap but your actions dont back your words. Its like the same thing here.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Same goes for Frank. Frank is a damn hardcore badass, and I love him. But I know his limitations.

Meh.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

I agree that DD would take Shang, and that's because of his superhuman powers (superhuman senses, radar sense).

Yeah and considering Frank has bust up DD badly why would Shang beat Frank 9/10?

Originally posted by Metalmanx

I would love to produce scans for you. Unfortunately, I don't own a Shang Chi comic. I have, however, learned a lot about him over the past two years, I've seen almost all of his feats in his respect thread, and I've seen him actually perform in the recent "Heroes for Hire". Talk to a bigger Shang fan than myself, I'm sure they'll produce the scans you so desire.

Thats not an excuse really even if you dont have scans you an describe his feats and achievements. Just saying he beats Frank 9/10 doesnt prove anything.

Ive seens some fights with him in heroes for hire and I have seen some of his old fights. I still dont see how Shang beast Frank 9/10.

Hell you can even go to the civil war scans and get some.

Basically im doing all the work here and I still think I had a right to bite your head off.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

My point is, I've read your posts, I've seen your scans. And while Frank is VERY impressive, it's just not impressive enough to take down Shang Chi (master of all kung-fu [...that's a lot]).

Shang wins this fight NEARLY everytime.

Still that doesnt change anything. You still have not provided any evidence. As I have said before even if you dont have scans you can say some of the stuff he has done.

Furthermore on one thread you argued that Wolverine could be taken out with a hit to the nuts like Frank did to beat Wolverine. I got scans of Shang getting curbstomped by Wolverine and now your arguing shang 9/10?

So punisher can h2h a guy who has chi amping ability to make all his stats superhuman. Not to mention the fact he is far more skilled at fighting then punisher.

Also your arguement is about wolverine pwn shang-chi. You do realize Logan would pwn punisher even worse in h2h fight

Originally posted by capt it up
So punisher can h2h a guy who has chi amping ability to make all his stats superhuman. Not to mention the fact he is far more skilled at fighting then punisher.

Well show me some feats. Tell me whats he done. DD has superhuman feats as well but Frank has beaten him up badly.

Originally posted by capt it up

Also your arguement is about wolverine pwn shang-chi. You do realize Logan would pwn punisher even worse in h2h fight

Stop talking about Wolverine? the fight is Shang vs Frank. I dont think Frank can beat Wolverine but if Shang is gonna get his ass kicked that bad by him whats the big deal?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well show me some feats. Tell me whats he done. DD has superhuman feats as well but Frank has beaten him up badly.

Stop talking about Wolverine? the fight is Shang vs Frank. I dont think Frank can beat Wolverine but if Shang is gonna get his ass kicked that bad by him whats the big deal?

I am not a shang-chi collector.

your arguement is that since logan pwned shang-chi that means punisher can take shang-chi? That faulty logic since punisher would be pwned far worse

Originally posted by capt it up
I am not a shang-chi collector.

Your not a shang collector but you still think Shang beats Frank 10/10. Then people were wondering why I was getting pissed off.

Originally posted by capt it up

your arguement is that since logan pwned shang-chi that means punisher can take shang-chi? That faulty logic since punisher would be pwned far worse

Well hell DD has taken Wolverine out before, if Shang is so good why cant he do better and Frank has good showings against DD.

What this boils down to is Frank Vs Wolverine, this discusion is Frank Vs Shang get it into your head and stop diverting the thread back to Frank Vs Wolverine.

You cant provide any proof for Shang beating Frank 10/10, but you want to divert the thread back to Wolverine.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Your not a shang collector but you still thik Shang beats FRank 10/10. Then people were wonderign why I was getting pissed off.

I have read him and he can amp his stats to superhuman levels. His fighting skills are top tier. I can name feats I just don't have the issues.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well hell DD has taken Wolverine out before, if Shang is so good why cant he do better and Frank has good showings against DD.

It was PIS I ahev proven it PIS. DD has never taken out Logan in a nin pis fight. so there goes that.

Originally posted by Alfheim
What this boils down to is Frank Vs Wolverine, this discusion is Frank Vs Shang get into your head and stop divering the thread back to Frank Vs Wolverine.

your whole debate is based on the fact shang-chi lost to wolverine. Your the one that making this about wolverine. The point is Wolverine would drop punisher far easier so your whole shang-chi got pwned by wolevrien arguement is useless.

by the way I am a huge punisher collector. I more then likly own more issues then you do of him.

Originally posted by capt it up
I have read him and he can amp his stats to superhuman levels. His fighting skills are top tier. I can name feats I just don't have the issues.

Yeah hes so good he got pawned by Wolverine and Taskmaster. Whats the point of having superhuman stats when you can only hit Wolverine once. Hell DD would probably kick his ass.

Originally posted by capt it up

It was PIS I ahev proven it PIS. DD has never taken out Logan in a nin pis fight. so there goes that.

Even if it was PIS DD could still give Wolverine a good fight.

Originally posted by capt it up

your whole debate is based on the fact shang-chi lost to wolverine. Your the one that making this about wolverine. The point is Wolverine would drop punisher far easier so your whole shang-chi got pwned by wolevrien arguement is useless.

Or DD is a better fighter than Shang has better showings than Shang and would do better against Wolverine.

Originally posted by capt it up

by the way I am a huge punisher collector. I more then likly own more issues then you do of him.

Whatever.