Dark phoenix vs HOM wanda

Originally posted by Mr Master
No one said Anything about 3 times,

don't try and take the attention off the FACT:

When Beak says, "She's starting to [B]REMAKE Reality 616 ... again"

That's because Wanda had Remade Reality before,

how many times?

Who knows.

But it was MORE than Once for sure. [/B]

If you bothered to read my last post you'd see my scan refers to the change occurring in your scan. The change occurring in your scan is the "NO MORE MUTANTS" change. Wanda is remaking reality again with that change because prior to that she brought into place the House of M reality to begin with. Thats what it means by remaking reality 616 again.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wasnt a result of Wandas reality warp. Anyone who reads Thunderbolts will know thats rubbish.

Genis Vell was affecting reality because of how Baron Zemo brought him back to life in 616 BEFORE HOM:
Baron Zemo brought him back using matter from the Big Bang. Universes in marvel are closed systems so all energy in a marvel universe derives from its Big Bang, so by using matter from the Big Bang on Genis, Genis was connected to the entire timeline of reality and using his power caused reactions with photonic activity across said timeline.

Absolutely nothing to do with House of M.

Go ahead, and show us just ONE Scan in which Geni-Vell,

BLINKS the Universe In and Out of Existence.

Show us just ONE Scan in which Genis even just destroys One Universe, without the help of Entropy.

And don't bring out Zemo's visions of the Future where Genis will be able to this.

I want Genis doing it in the PRESENT,

as he did AFTER Wanda's Reality Warp

and NEVER did again, after HOM Thunderbolts.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If you bothered to read my last post you'd see my scan refers to the change occurring in your scan. The change occurring in your scan is the "NO MORE MUTANTS" change. Wanda is remaking reality again with that change because prior to that she brought into place the House of M reality to begin with. Thats what it means by remaking reality 616 again.

What difference does it make,

Wanda still Re-Created the 616 Universe more than ONCE!

"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again"

And Wanda boosted Genis' current Powers aswell.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Go ahead, and show us just ONE Scan in which Geni-Vell,

BLINKS the Universe In and Out of Existence.

Show us just ONE Scan in which Genis even just destroys One Universe, without the help of Entropy.

And don't bring out Zemo's visions of the Future where Genis will be able to this.

I want Genis doing it in the PRESENT,

as he did AFTER [B]Wanda's Reality Warp

and NEVER did again, after HOM Thunderbolts. [/B]

Speculation. It is stated on panel and depicted that the reason for Genis disrupting space and time is down to the Big Bang, it has nothing to do with Wanda. You are speculating, your evidence is circumstantial. Present a conclusive on panel statement saying that Wanda boosted Genis or dont try and present that opinion as fact. As far as on panel evidence goes its not. Thats just what you've interpreted.

Once again not good enough.

I dont wanna see anything but conclusive proof.

Originally posted by Mr Master
What difference does it make,

Wanda still Re-Created the 616 Universe more than ONCE!

"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again"

And Wanda boosted Genis' current Powers aswell.

Prove it was the universe. As far as on panel evidence goes it was just the Earth. Ive shown how the Exiles talk from a global perspective and how when they've spoken of a reality they've literally meant that realitys version of Earth. Read back to my previous posts.

Either way one ambiguous statement isnt good enough. Especially when the point im trying to make is actually stated by a reputable source i.e Romas "GLOBAL alteration", the writer/editors intros from both Exiles and Uncanny X-men stating it to have been just a global change and the What If whilst not conclusive evidence in itself still helps paint the picture that it was just global with its many references to a global change as ive shown.

You on the other hand have nothing, but an ambiguous statement. One where the same title itself actually clarifies and says was a global change.

Unlucky. No evidence stating your point, no win for you 😬

Wandas biggest feat is warping the Earth. Impressive however she is far from Phoenix, far from many a cosmic in light of that. Phoenix destroys her.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Prove it was the universe. As far as on panel evidence goes it was just the Earth.

That's not proof either.

Don't pick and choose what you want to interpret as feats.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Speculation. It is stated on panel and depicted that the reason for Genis disrupting space and time is down to the Big Bang, it has nothing to do with Wanda. You are speculating, your evidence is circumstantial. Present a conclusive on panel statement saying that Wanda boosted Genis or dont try and present that opinion as fact. As far as on panel evidence goes its not. Thats just what you've interpreted.

Once again not good enough.

I dont wanna see anything but conclusive proof.

Wanda made Xavier more powerful just by him arriving at Genosha (where Wanda lived)

Wanda gave Layla Miller the power to Perceive Divergent Realities

"Layla showed Cage glimpses of his life prior to the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp"

Wanda gave every being on Earth the ability to make their Wishes become Reality.

Xavier's

Xavier thinks he's Dreaming at first

Here Gaby tells him she's existing in another Reality simultaneously, because of Wanda

Spiderman's

All the Xmen's really, but I'm not going to bother posting them all, you get the point.

Genis-Vell's

And on and on...and Again, Wanda gave THEM the Power to shape their own Dreams, (Without THEM even noticing)

Originally posted by Galan007
When someone says, "show proof that Phoenix can destroy a Universe", aren't you the one whom simply shows the scans of Phoenix healing a Universe and not actually destroying one?

That's not proof either.

Don't pick and choose what you want to interpret as feats.

Not in the slightest. I show scans of comparative feats, feats of a level which make it conceivable that Phoenix could do so. For example Phoenix binding a multiversal power, or Phoenix destroying a universe in an alternate reality, or Phoenix materializing the matter of an entire in the palm of her hand. If Phoenix can demonstrate telekinetic control of the matter of an entire universe in the palm of her hand materializing it at an atomic level from one place to another then its completely conceivable that if it was he intention she could destroy that universe.

If Psylocke telekinetically dimsantled a mountain down to its atoms and materialized it in another location completely intact how could anyone credibly argue against a claim that Psylocke could destroy that mountain if she wanted to, or even create such a mountain if she wanted to if she had sufficient matter at hand?

See the difference? Feats of a comparative level.

Wanda has none. As far as we've been told, on panel and by the writers/editors, she warped the planet and that is that.

Beg to differ?

Provide the evidence.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Prove it was the universe. As far as on panel evidence goes it was just the Earth. Ive shown how the Exiles talk from a global perspective and how when they've spoken of a reality they've literally meant that realitys version of Earth.

I CHALLENGE you to find ONE time in that issue where Beak or any other refer to Earth 616 as Reality 616.

The only time the 616 Reality is mentioned is when concerning Wanda's Reality Warp.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Either way one ambiguous statement isnt good enough. Especially when the point im trying to make is actually stated by a reputable source i.e Romas "GLOBAL alteration"

When Wanda's Reality Warp reached a Global Scale it Breached the Walls of Causality,

the Warp itself kept on expanding.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
and the What If whilst not conclusive evidence in itself still helps paint the picture that it was just global with its many references to a global change as ive shown.

"What If?"

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You on the other hand have nothing, but an ambiguous statement. One where the same title itself actually clarifies and says was a global change.

I have Beak telling us it was the 616 Reality (Universe)

I have Wanda giving Layla the power to "Perceive Divergent Realities"

I have Genis-Vell Blinking the Universe In and Out of Existence
(which he's NEVER done before or After)

I have the Official BIOS of 4 Characters,

where it's clearly stated that the Chaos Wave was Wanda's Reality Warp

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Unlucky. No evidence stating your point, no win for you

In your opinion perhaps,

everyone else see's it the way Marvel Officially certified it.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wandas biggest feat is warping the Earth. Impressive however she is far from Phoenix, far from many a cosmic in light of that. Phoenix destroys her.

Wanda's biggest Feat was Collapsing the Omniverse without even trying with the Chaos Wave.

Besides Re-Creating the 616 Universe in her image.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wanda made Xavier more powerful just by him arriving at Genosha (where Wanda lived)

Where does it state that or is it just suggested? Inconclusive. Its suggested Phoenix has links with God. Are we to take that as canon? 😕 No. Because the point isnt stated or shown to be conclusively the case so its not.

Wanda gave Layla Miller the power to Perceive Divergent Realities

"Layla showed Cage glimpses of his life prior to the [B]Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp"[/B]

Not canon that Layla Miller is a creation of the Scarlet Witches. That has been alluded to, because of her power and the fact that she debuted during House Of M. Seems the case, some characters think its the case, however the point hasnt been made canon.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wanda gave every being on Earth the ability to make their Wishes become Reality.

Xavier's

Xavier thinks he's Dreaming at first

[QUOTE=8412477]Originally posted by Mr Master
[B] Spiderman's

All the Xmen's really, but I'm not going to bother posting them all, you get the point.

Genis-Vell's

And on and on...and Again, Wanda gave THEM the Power to shape their own Dreams, (Without THEM even noticing)

Correction. Wanda used Xaviers power to co-ordinate her own and do what she couldnt do herself....learn everyones deepest desires so that she could create a reality on earth that was convincing and desired by all her friends:

The below scan doesnt state or show what your commentary would have us believe it does. Its vague as hell. Post the rest or drop the point.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Here Gaby tells him she's existing in another Reality simultaneously, because of Wanda

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wandas biggest feat is warping the Earth. Impressive however she is far from Phoenix, far from many a cosmic in light of that. Phoenix destroys her.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
For example Phoenix binding a multiversal power,

Phoenix has NEVER done anything on a Multiversal Scale.

The Excalibur Tower was VIA the Interface Alignment, so I can only wonder what you're talking about.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
or Phoenix destroying a universe in an alternate reality,

The Phoenix Force did destroy a Divergent Reality, in a "What If" Comic Book.

Not the 616 Universe,

unlike Wanda who made the 616 Universe her playpen.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
or Phoenix materializing the matter of an entire in the palm of her hand. If Phoenix can demonstrate telekinetic control of the matter of an entire universe in the palm of her hand materializing it at an atomic level from one place to another then its completely conceivable that if it was he intention she could destroy that universe.

Jean Amputated the Future in issue #154.

Here Comes Tomorrow began in issue #150.

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Here Comes Tomorrow bio)

Here Comes Tomorrow, took place on Earth-15104 and began in issue #150

"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)

It clearly says "Phoenix amputated the Alternate Future OF Reality 15104" ...

NOT of Reality 616 which then became 15104.

Also

Phoenix was only able to materialize Universe 15104 because she was in the White Hot Room.

"Shifting Herself into the Phoenix Force's Home Dimension (WHR) Jean was able to Heal the Wounded Orphan Universe"

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wanda has none. As far as we've been told, on panel and by the writers/editors, she warped the planet and that is that.

😆

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Beg to differ?

Provide the evidence.

What's the point friend,

you know you'll just tap dance around the facts,

cause no one can do anything except for Phoenix. 😏

Originally posted by Mr Master

cause no one can do anything except for Phoenix. 😏

srug

shocklaugh

313

Originally posted by Mr Master
I CHALLENGE you to find ONE time in that issue where Beak or any other refer to Earth 616 as Reality 616.

The only time the 616 Reality is mentioned is when concerning Wanda's Reality Warp.

Ive posted scans from the intro page of Exiles referring to just the world being changed. No more needs to be said on that matter:

Originally posted by Mr Master
When Wanda's Reality Warp reached a Global Scale it Breached the Walls of Causality,

the Warp itself kept on expanding.

Thats not what was stated. Roma stated that there was a global alteration that breached the walls of causality. Thats different to what you said. She marks out the scale of the change and her words are in line with the intro pages of both Exiles and Uncanny X-men:

"Transforming the WORLD into a mutant utopia"

Originally posted by Mr Master
"What If?"

Read my previous post. That should have been done anyway.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have Beak telling us it was the 616 Reality (Universe)

I have Wanda giving Layla the power to "Perceive Divergent Realities"

I have Genis-Vell Blinking the Universe In and Out of Existence
(which he's NEVER done before or After)

I have the Official BIOS of 4 Characters,

where it's clearly stated that the Chaos Wave was [B]Wanda's Reality Warp[/B]

Layla Miller is not by canon a creation of Wandas. The point has been ALLUDED to. It remains to be seen if that is ACTUALLY the case. Regradless, giving someone the power to see through into other realities isnt evidence that she warped the entire universe LOL

Youre speculating about the Genis Vell point. Provide an on panel statement pertaining to your point or give it up. Your evidence is circumstantial. Genis' universal threat level was established both before and after HOM and it wasnt due to anything Wanda did to him but instead because of his connection with the Big Bang.

Your 4 bios call the chaos wave Wandas reality warp, which it is. It is Wandas reality warp out of control without her knowledge. What does that have to do with your opinion that Wanda warped the entire 616 universe as opposed to just Earth 616 as stated by Roma the omniversal guardian, as stated by the writers/editors of Exiles and Uncanny X-men and as supported by the depiction of Wandas changes in the recent What If.

The point we're arguing, (the scale of Wandas reality warp) is actually stated and what is stated fits in with my argument. Youre ignoring that because it doesnt fit in with your personal opinion and youre trying to tie together unrelated incidents in an effort to paint YOUR picture of Wanda having actually warped the universe. Thats not good enough. Its actually stated as far as my arguments concerned, please provide some directly related evidence to support your side i.e a statement saying "Wanda warped the entire 616 universe" otherwise what you have just isnt good enough.

Originally posted by Mr Master
In your opinion perhaps,

everyone else see's it the way Marvel Officially certified it.

Certified nothing that helps your argument or affects mine in the slightest. The point im trying to make, the issue we're arguing over is actually stated by multiple sources and whats stated is GLOBAL and WORLD. You have an ambiguous statement and various unrelated events of a different nature that occurred during HOM that youre trying to tie together. NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where does it state that or is it just suggested? Inconclusive. Its suggested Phoenix has links with God. Are we to take that as canon? 😕 No. Because the point isnt stated or shown to be conclusively the case so its not.

This is my point,

what's the point of debating with you, forget it,

I try and be cool but you make it boring, cause you NEVER accept anything that disputes what you're spreading.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not canon that Layla Miller is a creation of the Scarlet Witches. That has been alluded to, because of her power and the fact that she debuted during House Of M. Seems the case, some characters think its the case, however the point hasnt been made canon.

It's not Canon and yet this is Layla's Official 2006 Marvel bio,

beside the Fact that it was illustarted On Panel:

Wanda was undefeatable, and ended up creating a plot device, to defeat herself in the form of:

Layla Miller

Layla was able to bring back the memories that Wanda took away from the World

Dr Strange was one of the many, that NEEDED Layla's Help

And like I said, Wanda Re-Created Layla Miller

The Original Layla is a psychic, Wanda's Layla is operating with whole New Power

"Your Psychic Powers, are psychic but Not psychic, Not like anything I've ever seen"

"Girly WHAT are you?"....."She AIN'T Human"

"I never felt anything like that"....."None of us have"

Go ahead and Dance.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Correction. Wanda used Xaviers power to co-ordinate her own and do what she couldnt do herself....learn everyones deepest desires so that she could create a reality on earth that was convincing and desired by all her friends:

The below scan doesnt state or show what your commentary would have us believe it does. Its vague as hell. Post the rest or drop the point.

Whatever,

if this is your style of debating,

I don't see why I should continue.

I like how you diverted to demeaning Phoenix instead of countering my points on the Wanda argument. Always your way when you have nothing left to say.

Either way you got handled in my thread over the Phoenix issue:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/437478_7-respect-the-phoenix-shifty#post8412464

I'll be back tomorrow. Early start. Nite nite. 😉

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I like how you diverted to demeaning Phoenix instead of countering my points on the Wanda argument. Always your way when you have nothing left to say.

Either way you got handled in my thread over the Phoenix issue:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/437478_7-respect-the-phoenix-shifty#post8412464

I'll be back tomorrow. Early start. Nite nite. 😉

😆

Beast explains

Strange explaining Wanda's power

Respect Wanda.