Dark phoenix vs HOM wanda

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You cant say definitely because that hasnt been shown to be the case on panel.

Merlyn speculated that he would become such a threat.

Now the Omniversal Guardian is speculating,

because of course what would he know.

Now when it's convenient, the Omniversal Guardian's Word is Law

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
does not change the fact that Roma the omniversal guardian said it was a global change.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Especially when the point im trying to make is actually stated by a reputable source i.e Romas "GLOBAL alteration",

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Roma stated that there was a global alteration that breached the walls of causality.

😆

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
We were shown future possibilities where Jaspers had become a great threat to existence hopwever they were possibilities. None of that actually happened, so you are wrong to say that.

Just like "Here Comes Tomorrow" NEVER happened.

Cobweb SAW the FUTURE, and in the Future Jaspers WARPED

the entire Omniverse.

Luckily he was stopped before this Future came to pass.

Had this story taken place in the Future, like Jean's "Here Comes Tomorrow"

We would have been able to see the Jaspers' Omniverse.

eg.

Had Grant Morrison not quantum leaped 150 Years into this X-Men controlled secluded Future, (where there are NO Heroes except for X-Men 😂 )

there would be no Jean & Reality 15104 in her hands.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
does not change the fact that Roma the omniversal guardian said it was a global change.

Does not change the Fact that Merlyn, her Father and Original Omniversal Guardian said,

if this Version of Jaspers is not stopped,

"the OMNI-VERSE will fall into Chaos, and a NEW GOD shall play dice with Matter"

Bio and On Panel accounts depicting the Phoenix Force getting OWNED

1.

Bio

"The FORCE was Transported to the Ultraverse by a Sentient Alien Starship"

On Panel verification

While the PHOENIX FORCE is in it's NATURAL STATE

The SHIP, rips a HOLE in Space & Time in front of the PHOENIX FORCE in it's own Universe

"Out of one marvelous Universe and into another"

continues in the next post ...

2.

Bio

"it intended to use the FORCE'S Energy to power the recombination ... IMPALED on a Lance of Energy ... WOUNDED the Force sought out a host to Protect it as it HEALED"

On Panel verification

"Impaled, Spitted, the PHOENIX writhes as it's LIFE is SUCKED OUT"

"It has never known PAIN of this magnitude, it SCREAMS"

"It's willfully TORTURING the PHOENIX" ..... am I imagining things, or is it's FIRE GOING OUT, the COLORS are FADING, like it's DYING"

"TRULY, the PHOENIX is BATTLING for IT'S LIFE against the sear of Light that is STRIPPING it's POWER AWAY"

"WOUNDED the PHOENIX FALLS, to SURVIVE, to MEND, to HEAL, it MUST find a Host"

continues in the next post ....

3.

Bio

"the FORCE attacked the ship, threatening the stability of the planet ... the Heroes were ABLE to DRIVE the FORCE into another Portal ... and it Emerged Four Billion Years in the Past"

On Panel verification

A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (SIX in ALL) are sent to battle the ACTUAL PHOENIX FORCE (WITHOUT an AVATAR)

"The assembled Heroes are TIRED & BATTERED, the PHOENIX is REBORN and FRESH"

AND they're STILL holding their own

The Six heroes BEAT (PHYSICALLY) the PHOENIX FORCE into and through the Portal

The PHOENIX FORCE ends up DISPLACED by FOUR Billion Years

Galactus intended on Separating the Phoenix Force from Rachel Summers,

and have it returned to the Cosmos, even if it meant her Rachel's life.

That was his INTENTION,

but Galactus ended up ERASING the Phoenix Force from existence because it was bonded to Rachel Summers completely:

When Galactus was going to erase the actual Phoenix Force (which was bonded to Rachel Summers) from existence, the Lights in the Universe were turning off.

"my master's concluded that Phoenix's continued existence is a threat to his own survival that he can't except"

Rachel complies, and excepts her fate:

"it's only one LIFE he wants ... I give it to him"

continues in the next post ...

Right before Galactus was about to KILL the Phoenix Force,

ROMA appears and says,

"Certain EVENTS are of such SIGNIFICANCE, they must be Witnessed first hand, THIS is a MOMENT in the Scheme of Things which must stand or fall on it's own"

Someone thought, this moment of SUCH significance
was simply about Galactus separating the Force from Rachel hysterical

INSTEAD of a True Cosmic EVENT of SIGNIFICANCE like the Phoenix Force getting Erased from existence!

Now, when Galactus begins to try and Separate the Force from Rachel,

the Force begins to DIE!!!

Galactus's INTENTION was to just separate the Phoenix Force from Rachel, but Roma told him he could NOT:

When Galactus began this process this happened:

"Galactus the Stars, they are going out"

Then Roma says,

"THAT CHILD (Rachel Summers) IS PHOENIX, Living Embodiment of ONE of the Primal Forces, you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death, there is a natural order to her being (EXISTENCE) as to yours, and all creation"

Is Roma saying Phoenix can't be killed? ❌

Is Roma mentioning the ETERNAL PATTERN? ❌

Is Roma in other words saying,

you can't separate the Phoenix from Rachel? ✅

WHY?

Because "THAT CHILD (Rachel Summers) IS PHOENIX"

Roma was referring to Phoenix being ERASED from existence, and it's CANON!

(an excerpt from Roma's OFFICIAL Marvel Universe Handbook Bio)

Bibliography - Excalibur #25 - "WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix II" SAME shit ... it's STILL the Phoenix Force as I PROVED.

continues in the next post ...

So the STARS were GOING OUT because the Phoenix Force in it's Natural State is the SUSTENANCE of the STARS:

DEATH speaks about Galactus BREAKING the "Eternal Pattern"

"violate at your own peril"

Galactus then says,

"my sustenance is living Planets, the Phoenix can Obliterate an entire Cosmos"

Then Death responds with,

"and FROM that DEATH (Obliterate an entire Cosmos) Bring about New Life (SPARK the Big Bang) but you're CHANGING that, BREAKING the ETERNAL PATTERN"

Galactus said, the "Phoenix CAN Obliterate AN entire Cosmos"

Death responds, "and FROM THAT Death" (Obliterate AN entire Cosmos)

"BRING about NEW LIFE" (SPARK the Big Bang)

"Phoenix is both the SPARK that IGNITES CREATION (Big Bang)

and the Final Fire that consumes it" (Obliterate an entire Cosmos)

So the "Eternal Pattern" is obviously the Phoenix Force's ROLE in the Universe, to exist as the "SUSTENANCE of the STARS"
and cyclically SPARK the Big Bang which "Obliterates a Cosmos and brings about New Life"

ERASE the Phoenix Force, and you BREAK that Pattern.

continues in the next post ...

When the WATCHER & DEATH said this to Galactus,

"Is that your wish Galactus? ... to condemn the Cosmos to ultimate extinction, and yourself to an Eternity in an Infinite Void, can even you endure such desolation?"

"unless that's what you really want? ... You've handed so many over to my care, why not lay down your burdens, and JOIN them?"

Galactus responds with,

"I am Supreme unto myself, I will NOT be bound Reaper, by Entity or Concept"

Watcher says,

"Yet Phoenix LIVES"

Galactus responds,

"FOR the PRESENT ... --- (What does this sound like to you?)

... the day is yours Starchilde, and with it, an awareness of your Role (the ETERNAL PATTERN) in the Scheme of Things"

The ETERNAL PATTERN, is Phoenix's ROLE in the Universe, Galactus was going to END that PATTERN by ERASING the Phoenix Force from existence,

just like the Official Marvel Handbook clearly states, Roma, "WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix II"

Phoenix II means the SECOND Phoenix, which is Rachel Summers.

Rachel is unique, (because she is Jean Grey's Daughter)

Betsy can see all her Alternate versions in the WHR

Rachel only has 4 Aspects of Her PAST-Self, NO Alternates

Rachel doesn't have an Alternate version of herself anywhere in the Multi-verse:

"in ALL the Alternate Dimensions we visited, NO analogue for Rachel Summers ... never another Phoenix"

The Phoenix Force tells Rachel, "ALL I have become, You ARE Too"

"My Essence is Bonded to Your Spirit, the Burden of Power, will be YOURS"

The Phoenix Force itself told Rachel, " You are the ONE TRUE PHOENIX"

"Galactus the Stars, they are going out"

Then Roma says,

"THAT CHILD (Rachel Summers) IS PHOENIX, Living Embodiment of ONE of the Primal Forces, you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death, there is a natural order to her being (EXISTENCE) as to yours, and all creation"

Roma SAID,

you can't separate the Phoenix from Rachel?

WHY?

Because "THAT CHILD (Rachel Summers) IS PHOENIX"

Roma was referring to Phoenix being ERASED from existence, and it's CANON!

(an excerpt from Roma's OFFICIAL Marvel Universe Handbook Bio)

Bibliography - Excalibur #25 - "WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix II" SAME shit ... it's STILL the Phoenix Force as I PROVED.

There,

I just posted Two separate incidents where the Actual Phoenix Force,

was getting KILLED!!!

How many instances can you bring up where Wanda during HOM,

was in Phoenix's predicament?

😕

Originally posted by Mr Master
Now the Omniversal Guardian is speculating,

because of course what would he know.

Now when it's convenient, the Omniversal Guardian's Word is Law

Merlyn is giving his opinion on a future possibility therefore it isnt fact because it hasnt happened he hasnt experienced it it is just what he foresees given Jaspers power level now.

Romas word about the chaos wave was different because it was regarding a current event she saw unfolding right before her eyes and could analyze firsthand.

One is speculation, a reference to a future possibility, that never came to pass because Jaspers got stomped before he came anywhere near realizing that potential

The other is an experts account of a current event as it happens before their eyes.

Try again.

Originally posted by Mr Master
😆

Laugh all you want. You havent provided a single piece of evidence that states Wanda warped the entire 616 universe, you've just presented pieces of evidence unrelated to that specific point (the scale of Wandas reality warp) and just thrown them together to try and paint your unsupported view.

I have presented an account from a reputable source and i have shown how every HOM intro for Uncanny X-men and Exiles refers to how Wanda changed just the world.

On top of that i posted scans from a HOM What If which also refers to the global scale of Wandas warp.

Unlucky. You have nothing.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Just like "Here Comes Tomorrow" NEVER happened.

Cobweb SAW the FUTURE, and in the Future Jaspers WARPED

the entire Omniverse.

Luckily he was stopped before this Future came to pass.

Had this story taken place in the Future, like Jean's "Here Comes Tomorrow"

We would have been able to see the Jaspers' Omniverse.

If that future would come to pass. All we have is the current and that future to go on. We do not know how that future would have come to pass, whether external factors were involved somehow. On top of that the crux of the matter is that it was JUST A POSSIBILITY. One that went UNREALIZED.

As such referring to that POSSIBILITY and using it to try and speak for current 616 Jaspers power level when he did nothing near that possibility is not acceptable.

Tough break.

Originally posted by Mr Master
eg.

Had Grant Morrison not quantum leaped 150 Years into this X-Men controlled secluded Future, (where there are NO Heroes except for X-Men 😂 )

there would be no Jean & Reality 15104 in her hands.

Wont bother responding to that point, you got handled on the issue in my Phoenix Respect thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/437478_6-respect-the-phoenix-shifty

Originally posted by Mr Master
Does not change the Fact that Merlyn, her Father and Original Omniversal Guardian said,

if this Version of Jaspers is not stopped,

"the OMNI-VERSE will fall into Chaos, and a NEW GOD shall play dice with Matter"

Handled above.

He had the potential to be a threat on that scale, if he was allowed to continue his warping unhindered. He wasnt. He got stopped.

Your tainted interpretation of Excalibur 25 where Galactus tried to exorcise the Force from Rachel got handled in this previous thread as did your attaempts to paint Rachel as the same thing as the Phoenix Force so that you could then show scans of Rachel getting beaten and then claim the same to be true of the Force 😬

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/313281_16-parallax-vs-dark-phoenix#post8199040

You received a spanking most severe, fallacies were highlighted and yet once again thinking the thread long buried you've decided to repost your defeated argument like the massacre never happened.

The sheer audacity 😱 LOL

As for your scans pertaining to the Ultraforce crossover ive already handled this issue with you and you were once again spanked on it. Despite the fact that you could not provide a counter at that time and you abandoned the argument at that time you are now here reposting (who would have thought? 😖hifty: ) your defeated argument like it never happened.

Heres a reference to said event from my Phoenix Respect thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/437478_3-respect-the-phoenix-shifty

No need to waste my time on a long drawn out battle over the point. The battles been had and won. As such all i have to do now is provide a link to the relevant info. 😄

finally i witness the GS and MM battle. First hand!

As it stands, the Scarlet Witchs TOP feat is warping the reality of planet Earth. The point is stated by Roma the omniversal guardian:

"GLOBAL ALTERATION"

As stated by the writers/editors on the intro page of every House of M issue of Uncanny X-men:

"Used her mutant power to alter reality, transforming THE WORLD into a mutant utopia"

As stated by the writers/editors on the intro page of every House of M Exiles issue:

Exiles 70

"The gathered heroes travel to Genosha to confront Wanda, then THE WORLD burned white"

"They find that Beaks native reality EARTH 616 has been transformed."

Same thing again in Exiles 72:

Difference is it also accounts for the "NO MORE MUTANTS" change that Wanda performed the event Mr Master presents as Wanda remaking the entire reality again and again:

Originally posted by Mr Master

"She's starting to REMAKE [B]Reality 616 ... again"

"You might not even exist anymore in whatever New Reality takes its place"

"Who knows how she'll change Everything this time"

[/B]

The actual comic refers to this as a fate that just befell "Earth 616". Others would have you believe otherwise.

If someones argument would have you ignore and discount what is actually stated on panel in favour of their opinion on how things should be, then trust me thats not an argument you'd be wise to pay the slightest attention to. 😬

That will be all. 🙂

Phoenix for the win 😉

firefirefireph

And round and round he goes ...

Originally posted by Mr Master
firefirefireph

And round and round he goes ...

You've been dispatched.

Get over it. 😉

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You've been dispatched.

Get over it.

greennuts

Only in your mind my boy ...

Originally posted by Mr Master
greennuts

Only in your mind my boy ...

Nope. Its visible on this thread and many others my deluded online chum. 🙂

You seem to have alot of time for the forums these days. You ready for that challenge thread now by any chance? 😕

Lack of time was the only reason you gave for not wanting to face me. 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Its visible on this thread and many others my deluded online chum.
You seem to have alot of time for the forums these days. You ready for that challenge thread now by any chance? 😕
Lack of time was the only reason you gave for not wanting to face me.

bluenuts