Storm vs Polaris

[QUOTE][B]It's about Hierarchy, that's why people can't accept certain things.

Get over it.

Somebody MADE UP the Phoenix one day just as someone can kill the Phoenix off. GET OVER IT.

The PF was introduced one day, no one knew what a PF was before then, now PF is EVERYTHING, BLAH. [B][QUOTE]

Resorting to blah's now, huh?

The statement you made above can be said of any character, and you've admitted it yourself (don't make me being up the quote). That is the problem I have with it. Cosmic Spiderman was introduced by some writer and you cannot deny that one day Multiversal Spiderman will never exist, just as I can't deny FP Storm can exist.

Let me tell you what though, the chances of your invisionment of FP Storm are just as great as Multiversal Spiderman.

Oh and great detbating logic dude....

You make this statement...

[QUOTE][B]Somebody MADE UP the Phoenix one day just as someone can kill the Phoenix off. GET OVER IT.QUOTE][B]

You read this statement...

[QUOTE][B]Somebody MADE UP Storm one day just as someone can kill Storm off. GET OVER IT.[B]{QUOTE]

and then state this...

[QUOTE][B]True, so PF and Storm are equal[QUOTE][B]

Therefore by your logic Captain America and any other created and then killed off character = Storm = PF. That my friend is just plain stupid.

A. A character was made up.

B. The same character can be killed off.

C. Phoenix fits the two above premises and so does Storm.

D. Therefore Storm = PF

So from logical conclusions I can add the names of any dead character from comic and they = Storm and PF.

See you say eveyone is making logical fallicies including myself, when you make them.

When you claim that I make logical fallicies all you say is that you disagree with my premises, that does not mean logical fallicies, its just the differece between a sound and valid argument.

Anyways you just say you disagree without really pointing out what you disagree with. You are too general sometimes in order to elude from logical fallicies, but you still make them.

Anyways my premises are made on the probability of things actually hapenning not on the slim chance that they might actually happen.

I mean what are the chances of Blob farting and collapsing the universe or multiverse? But you know what, I can't said it can't be written, even though the chances of it happening are almost 0/100. The same with Storm the chances of a FP Storm are 0/100 based on what I have seen her power to be and at the rate of growth.

Damn the quotes did not work oh well no timew to fix it.

Here you go bean, I'm bored so I fixed it for you...

Originally posted by bean_machine

[QUOTE=8803367]Originally posted by 2damnloud
It's about Hierarchy, that's why people can't accept certain things.

Get over it.

Somebody MADE UP the Phoenix one day just as someone can kill the Phoenix off. GET OVER IT.

The PF was introduced one day, no one knew what a PF was before then, now PF is EVERYTHING, BLAH.

Resorting to blah's now, huh?

The statement you made above can be said of any character, and you've admitted it yourself (don't make me being up the quote). That is the problem I have with it. Cosmic Spiderman was introduced by some writer and you cannot deny that one day Multiversal Spiderman will never exist, just as I can't deny FP Storm can exist.

Let me tell you what though, the chances of your invisionment of FP Storm are just as great as Multiversal Spiderman.

Oh and great detbating logic dude....

You make this statement...

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Somebody MADE UP the Phoenix one day just as someone can kill the Phoenix off. GET OVER IT.

You read this statement...

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Somebody MADE UP Storm one day just as someone can kill Storm off. GET OVER IT.

and then state this...

Originally posted by 2damnloud
True, so PF and Storm are equal

Therefore by your logic Captain America and any other created and then killed off character = Storm = PF. That my friend is just plain stupid.

A. A character was made up.

B. The same character can be killed off.

C. Phoenix fits the two above premises and so does Storm.

D. Therefore Storm = PF

So from logical conclusions I can add the names of any dead character from comic and they = Storm and PF.

See you say eveyone is making logical fallicies including myself, when you make them.

When you claim that I make logical fallicies all you say is that you disagree with my premises, that does not mean logical fallicies, its just the differece between a sound and valid argument.

Anyways you just say you disagree without really pointing out what you disagree with. You are too general sometimes in order to elude from logical fallicies, but you still make them.

Anyways my premises are made on the probability of things actually hapenning not on the slim chance that they might actually happen.

I mean what are the chances of Blob farting and collapsing the universe or multiverse? But you know what, I can't said it can't be written, even though the chances of it happening are almost 0/100. The same with Storm the chances of a FP Storm are 0/100 based on what I have seen her power to be and at the rate of growth. [/QUOTE]

Thanx. Now I can dissect it.😱

Originally posted by bean_machine

Resorting to blah's now, huh?

The statement you made above can be said of any character, and you've admitted it yourself (don't make me being up the quote). That is the problem I have with it. Cosmic Spiderman was introduced by some writer and you cannot deny that one day Multiversal Spiderman will never exist, just as I can't deny FP Storm can exist.

Let me tell you what though, the chances of your invisionment of FP Storm are just as great as Multiversal Spiderman.

Oh and great detbating logic dude....

Spiderman would look crazy having a connection with the universe like Storm does. There is no basis. He may have been once WITH the HOTU. It's still not innately apart of his powerset and character.

Originally posted by bean_machine

Therefore by your logic Captain America and any other created and then killed off character = Storm = PF. That my friend is just plain stupid.

A. A character was made up.

B. The same character can be killed off.

C. Phoenix fits the two above premises and so does Storm.

D. Therefore Storm = PF

So from logical conclusions I can add the names of any dead character from comic and they = Storm and PF.

See you say eveyone is making logical fallicies including myself, when you make them.

When you claim that I make logical fallicies all you say is that you disagree with my premises, that does not mean logical fallicies, its just the differece between a sound and valid argument.

Anyways you just say you disagree without really pointing out what you disagree with. You are too general sometimes in order to elude from logical fallicies, but you still make them.

Anyways my premises are made on the probability of things actually hapenning not on the slim chance that they might actually happen.

I mean what are the chances of Blob farting and collapsing the universe or multiverse? But you know what, I can't said it can't be written, even though the chances of it happening are almost 0/100. The same with Storm the chances of a FP Storm are 0/100 based on what I have seen her power to be and at the rate of growth.

Comphrehend the CONTEXT. We don't NEED PF jus as much as we don't NEED Storm therfore they are "equal."

You keep making the assertion that PF is the spark. There doesn't have to be spark. She can be killed off, so can Storm. They are equal in terms of ability to be killed off, written up or down etc.

Other's characters abilities to be written a certain way goes without saying. Other characters having BASIS to be written a certain way is another story.

Storm doesn't have a basis because of what?? her average feats??

Does that negate her abilities and powerset??

Does that negate HOW it has been said her powers actually work, have worked, and are working??

If the answer is yes to any of these questions, your argument is fallacious.😊

REMEMBER, the premise is MY IDEA of an FP Storm, NOT current Storm (just to negate the strawman arguments)😊

BLINK, and you'll miss it

The sig refers to your logic?

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Storm's power is based on her connection the the infinitesimal energies of the Universe, and even in other realities?? It could be written that it is THEE God that powers her, and not the PF, you never know 😮‍💨 . Are power displays great?? Sure. Feat's don't detract from Storm's abilities though. You get into the "If then, why not" logic.

Aren't you the one using "If, Then" logic? Though. Everyone else is debating within forum rules.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Of what??

Projection is a defense mechanism in psychology wherein you "project" your own feeling onto other people or blame them for your failures.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
😘

I said "Cyclops, Jubilee and Taskmaster" you only said that Cyclops and Jubilee couldn't be compared to Storm.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Strawman. Never said that.

You've said she was next in line to be TOAA.
I just showed how none of the things she's ever done put her near that level.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Storm's powers comes from her connection to the Earth. This has expaned to the universe even up until this very DAY.

🤨 Proof?

Originally posted by 2damnloud
The ultimate, top peak for Storm in MY OINION would be a connection to EVERYTHING with no limit.

That can be said about any character.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
You keep talking about feats, or lack thereof and ignore how said feats WORKED.

She doesn't use her powers based on the EM spectrum perse, they are based on her connection the universe, Earth first. Everything else is a byproduct, feats included.

😘 Speculation and "If, Then" logic.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Aren't you the one using "If, Then" logic? Though. Everyone else is debating within forum rules.

No I'm not.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

Projection is a defense mechanism in psychology wherein you "project" your own feeling onto other people or blame them for your failures.

I'm projecting nothing.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

I said "Cyclops, Jubilee and Taskmaster" you only said that Cyclops and Jubilee couldn't be compared to Storm.

Ok, Still don't compare though

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

You've said she was next in line to be TOAA.
I just showed how none of the things she's ever done put her near that level.

I've said it only in JEST. Again. That's a Strawman argument. You attempt to misrepresent my stance by taking it out of the context making it ridiculous and easy to attack.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

🤨 Proof?

Read anything about Storm. She is connected to the earth, she can feel it's pain LITERALLY. When she was in space in Ucanny 166 she felt the living worlds and such. She can feel living things and energy. She can see it on a sub-atomic level and control it through the alteration of her perception.

IIRC, wasn't it said somewhere that Iceman began to do that stuff he does when finally learned to see the world as moisture or something. I don't remember.

In these debates, people neglect discourse on exactly HOW it is been expressed that Storm's powers work. Therein lies the problem.

And the "this very day" comment refers to her fight with Surfer in FF 545.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

That can be said about any character.

Nope.

You have to have a BASIS. Anything CAN be said about anything.

I'm sure you used a fallacy there. 😕

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Aren't you the one using "If, Then" logic? Though. Everyone else is

😘 Speculation and "If, Then" logic.

Nope, it's truth, not Denying the antecedant.

"If then" is making storms powerset biconditional. Saying Storm's powerset is based on xyz, if she does not do xyz(which can be for a MYRIAD of reasons, one main reason being PIS) then her original powerset is invalid.

One has NOTHING to do with the other, or I should say one does not NEGATE the other.

Storm can have a connection to the universe, manipulate energy on a sub-atomic level, manipulate stars(whether consistently or not) etc etc. She can do ALL of the above yet NOT manipulate reality. Storm NOT maipulating reality, a Magnetic Storm, getting tagged, KO'd etc. has absolutely NOTHING to do with the actual aforementioned abilities.

Therein lies the flaw--A is not dependent on B for A to be true.

He power over the Earth's weather is not said to be relegated to EM fields, otherwise she would only be doing lightning. Her power is connected to her oneness with the Earth as a WHOLE, she can manipulate EM fields because of this(a byproduct). Her power over Celestial energies is not dependent on EM fields. It is because of her connection to energy that just so happends to be Electromagnetic or electrical.

We don't don't know what the Trion's dimension was compsed of and what the Laws of physics were there. Same thing with the Planet Hala.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Spiderman would look crazy having a connection with the universe like Storm does. There is no basis. He may have been once WITH the HOTU. It's still not innately apart of his powerset and character.

Comphrehend the CONTEXT. We don't NEED PF jus as much as we don't NEED Storm therfore they are "equal."

You keep making the assertion that PF is the spark. There doesn't have to be spark. She can be killed off, so can Storm. They are equal in terms of ability to be killed off, written up or down etc.

Other's characters abilities to be written a certain way goes without saying. Other characters having BASIS to be written a certain way is another story.

Storm doesn't have a basis because of what?? her average feats??

Does that negate her abilities and powerset??

Does that negate HOW it has been said her powers actually work, have worked, and are working??

If the answer is yes to any of these questions, your argument is fallacious.😊

REMEMBER, the premise is MY IDEA of an FP Storm, NOT current Storm (just to negate the strawman arguments)😊

Again this can be said of any character. I can dream up a FP Spiderman if I want to or not and it does not matter if the powersource is external or not.

BTW

Comphrehend the CONTEXT. We don't NEED PF jus as much as we don't NEED Storm therfore they are "equal."

Well then, the same can be said for LT and any other character and I will go as far as to say TOAA. Therefore Storm and TOAA are the same in the fact that he is not a nessasary character. Any day a marvel writer can decide to make TOAA a big fake and that TOAA has a boss. So therefore TOAA and Storm are "equal". Am I wrong in this equivocation?

What chances do you give that your vision of a FP Storm will be written at all ever? 10/10, 5/10, 0/10?

Originally posted by 2damnloud
No I'm not.

Yes you are.

Storm has portrayed a very small number of high feats you are extrapolating from them to give her powers she has never used or even hinted at more than once.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
I'm projecting nothing.

Denial 😖hifty:

Originally posted by 2damnloud
I've said it only in JEST. Again. That's a Strawman argument. You attempt to misrepresent my stance by taking it out of the context making it ridiculous and easy to attack.

😐 You joke about her being the next TOAA but you're seruous when you say her powers could put her at "oneness with the omniverse"?

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Read anything about Storm. She is connected to the earth, she can feel it's pain LITERALLY. When she was in space in Ucanny 166 she felt the living worlds and such. She can feel living things and energy. She can see it on a sub-atomic level and control it through the alteration of her perception.

IIRC, wasn't it said somewhere that Iceman began to do that stuff he does when finally learned to see the world as moisture or something. I don't remember.

In these debates, people neglect discourse on exactly HOW it is been expressed that Storm's powers work. Therein lies the problem.

And the "this very day" comment refers to her fight with Surfer in FF 545.

You're ignoring the fact that she never applies her power in the ways you suggest.

How does Iceman apply to Storm?
How does a connection to the Earth come out as "connection to the universe"?

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Nope.

You have to have a BASIS. Anything CAN be said about anything.

You happen to lack a basis of consistent feats and demonstrations of power that put Storm on that level.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
I'm sure you used a fallacy there. 😕

hysterical2 And you've accused others of being desperate!

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Nope, it's truth.

Not Denying the antecedant.

If then is making storms powerset biconditional. Saying Storm's powerset is based on xyz, if she does not do xyz(which can be for a MYRIAD of reasons) then her original powerset is invalid.

One has NOTHING to do with the other, or I should say one does not NEGATE the other.

Storm can have a connection the the universe, manipulated energy on a sub-atomic level, manipulate stars(whether consistently or not) etc etc. She can do ALL the above yet NOT manipulate reality.

Storm NOT maipulating reality, a Magnetic Storm, getting tagged, KO'd etc. has absolutely NOTHING to do with the actual aforementioned abilities.

Therein lies the flaw. A is not dependent on B for A to be true.

You should go to CBR. We don't argue based on nothing but powersets here.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yes you are.

Storm has portrayed a very small number of high feats you are extrapolating from them to give her powers she has never used or even hinted at more than once.

And??

Does the qauntity negate the feat??

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

Denial 😖hifty:

There's nothing to deny.

No where am I projecting feelings of crying about something. If so, point out where.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

😐 You joke about her being the next TOAA but you're seruous when you say her powers could put her at "oneness with the omniverse"?

And they can't because???

This is real strawman because we'll end up arguing about my OPINION and not necessarily the evidence(canon)

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

You're ignoring the fact that she never applies her power in the ways you suggest.

How does Iceman apply to Storm?
How does a connection to the Earth come out as "connection to the universe"?

And how am I suggesting she applies her powers??

Iceman's power's were expanded to insane levels just off the basis that he can make ice. He can maipulate moisture IN organic material etc etc. See the huge jump??

IMO, It wouldn't be a huge jump for Storm to be cosmic not necessarily omniversal. Omniversal would be ultimate, fully evolved Storm which is MY OPINION.

I've never said Storm is ANY of the above

That's your main problem, you're a little slow at understanding how Storm's powers work in relation to Earth's weather and the universe.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

You happen to lack a basis of consistent feats and demonstrations of power that put Storm on that level.

On what level??

Originally posted by bean_machine
Again this can be said of any character. I can dream up a FP Spiderman if I want to or not and it does not matter if the powersource is external or not.

BTW

Comphrehend the CONTEXT. We don't NEED PF jus as much as we don't NEED Storm therfore they are "equal."

Well then, the same can be said for LT and any other character and I will go as far as to say TOAA. Therefore Storm and TOAA are the same in the fact that he is not a nessasary character. Any day a marvel writer can decide to make TOAA a big fake and that TOAA has a boss. So therefore TOAA and Storm are "equal". Am I wrong in this equivocation?

What chances do you give that your vision of a FP Storm will be written at all ever? 10/10, 5/10, 0/10?

10/10😊

I've been over all the rest of that already.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
And??

Does the qauntity negate the feat??

Actually yes.

No SvFL

Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.
For standard debates, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama's run of Batman and Grell's run of Iron Man, both characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
10/10😊

I've been over all the rest of that already.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Actually yes.

No SvFL

Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated [B]or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.
For standard debates, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama's run of Batman and Grell's run of Iron Man, both characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded. [/B]

Rarely repeated??

She manipulated space 4 times all the way up until now.

That's repeated enough times to me.

"Rarely repeated" means only doing something once or twice at the most. Wormhole anyone?? Diamagnetic rip anyone??

How many times has Polaris done the bloodrip??

It also can be called PIS since Storm maniped, on more than one occasion, HUGE electromagnetic forces within herself. We would have to SUSPEND that aspects of Storm's abilities to give a win to someone else. THAT is PIS to me.

She doesn't live in space so why should she be moving galaxies around all the time??

It was also within her powers. She did it like she controls the weather on Earth, with relative ease.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
She manipulated space 4 times all the way up until now.

That's repeated enough times to me.

hysterical

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
hysterical

read the rest

Spider-man has lifted cars many times. So it should be reasonable that he can lift 200 billion cars at once.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Spider-man has lifted cars many times. So it should be reasonable that he can lift 200 billion cars at once.

Calrify this or I shall deem it a false analogy.😐

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Calrify this or I shall deem it a false analogy.😐

Second, you're grouping the normal feats like converting ambient EM radiation into electricity with higher ones like the galactic core feat because they're based on the same core ability, correct? If so, you're completely failing to notice the difference in the amount of energy manipulated. Manipulating that amount of energy is a one time feat for Storm. Actually, I don't know about the others. They might have problems with her doing any of it. Mine is, other then the sketchiness, is the amount of energy. One time feat. One time feat. Cha-cha-cha.

Third, four times in thirty years? If that a couple's sex life they'd rarely have sex.