Believing in a limited God

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, you believe that the finger starts with infection. Don't you believe that we are born into sin?

The finger analogy was really a poor one on both our parts, as it doesn't really identify who or what the cause of "sin" is. To answer your question, yes I do believe we are born into "sin", but I don't believe that God is responsable for sin.

I believe that he allows it though, because he wants to prove himself to us as being loving, by allowing us the ability to freely love him. This doesn't necessarily mean that God needs to prove himself, but he does it anyway..cause well he's loving and he's cool like that. 😉

I also believe he allows sin because he knew that it was the only way to establish a loving relationship with us. I don't think God wanted to spend eternity with a bunch of mechanical tools that he could tell what to do every minute of the day. I think he really does want to have a true loving relationship with us all. Of course at the same time, he also wants us to understand what real love is all about, which is why he presents his word to us.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
My belief about God is more like gravity. You don't have to believe in gravity to be held to the ground. Also, is it the love that gravity has for us that keeps us from floating off into space? And if we jump off a high building, is that sin when we hit the ground?

Well you don't have to believe in gravity, but you still know gravity -- or something similar to it exists that holds you to the ground. To deny such a force's obvious existence is very foolish.

Originally posted by Thundar
The finger analogy was really a poor one on both our parts, as it doesn't really identify who or what the cause of "sin" is. To answer your question, yes I do believe we are born into "sin", but I don't believe that God is responsable for sin.

I believe that he allows it though, because he wants to prove himself to us as being loving, by allowing us the ability to freely love him. This doesn't necessarily mean that God needs to prove himself, but he does it anyway..cause well he's loving and he's cool like that. 😉

I also believe he allows sin because he knew that it was the only way to establish a loving relationship with us. I don't think God wanted to spend eternity with a bunch of mechanical tools that he could tell what to do every minute of the day. I think he really does want to have a true loving relationship with us all. Of course at the same time, he also wants us to understand what real love is all about, which is why he presents his word to us.

hysterical Please don’t hurt yourself. All you have told me is that your god is illogical. hysterical

Originally posted by Thundar
Well you don't have to believe in gravity, but you still know gravity -- or something similar to it exists that holds you to the ground. To deny such a force's obvious existence is very foolish.

But even a fool can walk to work.

Originally posted by Mindship
You mean like, say, Thor? 😉

But seriously, your statement is interesting. Please explain.

I could never have faith or follow a god like Thor. I mean the guy spends most of his time trying to see whose pants he can get into, like most of the viking god's.😆

Roman and Greek god's were even worse. They'd sleep with just about anything. Funnily enough, Christian theology and history tells us that most of these god's were probably representative of condemned angels that roamed the earth during pre flood times.

In the bible, I believe the book of Jude makes reference to some of the Roman god's and their half-demon children by referring to them as "heroes of old." I think most Greek and Roman mythology is based on these fallen angels exploits.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I think you have misunderstood why people point out the idea of a limited or flawed god. Christian mythology has a fundamental flaw. Simply put, a god that needs followers is not an omnipotent god. The fact that we are needed by god, or even loved by god, shows that god (the Christian god) is not complete.

Yeah. Hence you make him "loving and caring."

Originally posted by Nellinator
God doesn't need us = fail. God wants us to love Him, that is a sign of compassion and love that adds to His perfection. An unloving and apathic God is flawed.

A god that needs is incomplete. A god that wants is not in charge. Perfection cannot be added too. Every god is flawed.

Agree with the first two sentances.

Originally posted by Alliance
Agree with the first two sentances.

What was your problem with "Every god is flawed."?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
A god that needs is incomplete. A god that wants is not in charge. Perfection cannot be added too. Every god is flawed.

Logic seems to contradict that. If he is perfect, then he does not want or need anything.

Those are human (read: imperfect) constructs.

Originally posted by Alliance
Logic seems to contradict that. If he is perfect, then he does not want or need anything.

Those are human (read: imperfect) constructs.

Wanting is not necessarily a weakness in the least, in fact it is a strength in many cases, to deny that would be idiocy. It can be a weakness, but it is not applicable in God's case as His wants lead to good things, not bad things.

Well since we are both humans, I find it difficult to escape defining things in human terms.

You don't speak for god. Don't pretend to. If something wants something, its wither spoiled or lacking something. Either condition does not indicate perfection.

The Bible speaks for Him and it says that there are things He wants...

Originally posted by Alliance
If something wants something, its wither spoiled or lacking something.

The bible is archaic and edited by humans repeatedly. You are also assuming that humans have the divine ability to properly interpret the bible (of which there is certainly evidence to the contrary).

I basing this argument on logic.

Not really, but that's not really applicable to this debate.

What logic did the quoted statement come from though? I'm just wondering if you got an example or something because it seems slightly extreme...

Originally posted by Nellinator
The Bible speaks for Him and it says that there are things He wants...

1) Are you even familiar with the history of the book you call the bible? And by "history", I don't mean anything that's written in the book. I mean the back story of how it came to be a published text in its current format? And I'm not talking about just the King James version, but the several before that as well. As in I'm talking abou tthe human beings who decided to get together and pick and chose what was going in it as the "divine word of god".

2) If god has so much to say, why doesn't he open his all knowing mouth and speak to us himself? You say he loves us so much...like a parent loves his child. When was the last time you saw a parent tell his kid to take the garbage out but beat him because he meant to say wash the dishes? Who ****ed up, the parent or the kid? If god has something to say, let him say it.

1) Yes I am well aware.

2) To what are you referring because it doesn't make a lot of sense to me out of its context?

Originally posted by Nellinator
1) Yes I am well aware.

2) To what are you referring because it doesn't make a lot of sense to me out of its context?

1) Then exercise some of that profound knowledge when you address the bible and what's in it.

2) It's pretty simple. If god has something to say, then he should just ****ing saying it so we can all hear it and understand. As it is, he's holding his retarded child responsible for being retarded.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Not really, but that's not really applicable to this debate.

What logic did the quoted statement come from though? I'm just wondering if you got an example or something because it seems slightly extreme...

It very applicable, especially when you make absurd claims.

Those were the two options that came to mind. If you have better logic, present it. But actually address the question, not just the fact that you don't like it.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
1) Then exercise some of that profound knowledge when you address the bible and what's in it.

2) It's pretty simple. If god has something to say, then he should just ****ing saying it so we can all hear it and understand. As it is, he's holding his retarded child responsible for being retarded.

Originally posted by Alliance
It very applicable, especially when you make absurd claims.

Those were the two options that came to mind. If you have better logic, present it. But actually address the question, not just the fact that you don't like it.

I want a free car, I won't get one and I'll be okay without it. If I get it, that would be sweet, however, my want for a car isn't a weakness. There does that example work for you? You're making God should like a lonely teenager that's depressed because no one loves Him. Thats obviously not the way it works.