Originally posted by Allanklesthere is nothing manly about darkseid's attire
😂He could wear pink high heels and still be more man than Thanos.
do you actually know how women put dresses that tight on? darkseid will be doing that wiggle n shit to get it on, and hopping around his lair putting the hooker boots on. (with the lights on so he doesn't trip)
with pink heels on he might as well hurry up and get his inevitable pimp backhand from thanos and run him his money.
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Check ut Darkseid haters why He Is Great Archetypal Comic Book Character
Originally posted by aztecBased on what ? Name me one character over an elite top tier he has defeated with them in the past 30 years. It didn't erase DD did it, nope.
Darkseid erases Thanos from existence, or he uses him as a punching bag. Actually, he's gonig to have Thanos go under a sex change and have him be the new leader of the female furies. 🙂
Originally posted by quanchi112Infinity Man. He was even before his source amp, 500 times more powerful than your average New God. DS would ***** him with ease.
Based on what ? Name me one character over an elite top tier he has defeated with them in the past 30 years. It didn't erase DD did it, nope.
Originally posted by The ReturnThat was over thirty years ago. I gave a much more recent example in DD whom it did not erase and Superman has flat out deflected it before as has WW.
Infinity Man. He was even before his source amp, 500 times more powerful than your average New God. DS would ***** him with ease.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I was with him until he started blasting Final Crisis and saying siege was better. 👇 Morrison understood Kirby's concepts better than any writer before or since. Simonson is one of the few who really gets them as well.
Morrison's New Gods are lightyears away from Kirby's.
Sure, he understood some of the underlying 'grandness' of the concepts, but he transformed them from characters to rote archetypes, from protagonists to set pieces that move OTHER characters forward.
Darkseid, as portrayed by Kirby, was complex and multi-faceted. Under Morrison, he was just evil personified. Under Morrison, Metron was science and innovation. Under Kirby, Metron was science and innovation untinged by morality, unrestrained by wisdom.
In a lot of ways, Morrison went back and sort of did the exact opposite of what Kirby did -- where as Morrison went and made the Gods TIMELESS, Kirby made them TIMELY, direct reflections of the 60s/70s.
I actually quite enjoyed Morrison's take on the New Gods, but no one 'got' what Kirby was doing with the New Gods other than Kirby and Simonson -- no one else was ever able to channel THAT characterization.
Originally posted by Desaad
Morrison's New Gods are lightyears away from Kirby's.Sure, he understood some of the underlying 'grandness' of the concepts, but he transformed them from characters to rote archetypes, from protagonists to set pieces that move OTHER characters forward.
Darkseid, as portrayed by Kirby, was complex and multi-faceted. Under Morrison, he was just evil personified. Under Morrison, Metron was science and innovation. Under Kirby, Metron was science and innovation untinged by morality, unrestrained by wisdom.
In a lot of ways, Morrison went back and sort of did the exact opposite of what Kirby did -- where as Morrison went and made the Gods TIMELESS, Kirby made them TIMELY, direct reflections of the 60s/70s.
I actually quite enjoyed Morrison's take on the New Gods, but no one 'got' what Kirby was doing with the New Gods other than Kirby and Simonson -- no one else was ever able to channel THAT characterization.
I see where you're coming from. But I think Morrison was truer to the ideals than you think. Rock of Ages clearly demonstrates Metron's potential for corruption in the name of science. And what is more evil to someone like Kirby, than tyranny and fascism? Darkseid always was evil on a grandiose and grotesque scale. I do agree that Kirby's new gods were products of their time and hard to consider outside the 60s/70s. But....making them timeless as Morrison did may have been a necessary revolution.
Props for shouting out to Simonson. 👆
And out of curiosity, since I've been gone awhile, how did you find Final Crisis and the related tie-ins?
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I see where you're coming from. But I think Morrison was truer to the ideals than you think. Rock of Ages clearly demonstrates Metron's potential for corruption in the name of science.
That was something else. That was Metron being broken upon the rock of Darkseid's will.
Again, Darkseid as evil, and kind of insane, which is not the Darkseid of Kirby. It's an impressively foreboding Darkseid, and as a DCU villain it's spectacular, but it goes into the 'cool but not Kirby' file, along with Levitz's Darkseid, Ostrander's Darkseid and PAD's Darkseid.
And what is more evil to someone like Kirby, than tyranny and fascism?
Yes, but Tyranny and Fascism are particular and distinct manifestations of evil as Kirby saw it. Darkseid himself wasn't evil in every way. Or he at least deluded himself into thinking he wasn't evil. He had real love for Orion. He disdained harming or killing children, and did what he could to avoid it. He believed in fair, just combat. He believed in power and passion of the spirit, and disdained the automated videogame war became by the time of "Hunger Dogs".
He was evil, no doubt. But he wasn't EVERYTHING evil.
Morrison's Darkseid was, overtly, the anthropomorphic representation of evil. Surely you can see the difference.
Darkseid always was evil on a grandiose and grotesque scale.
He was a pragmatist. That is distinct from taking pleasure in 'evil' acts. He'd do anything he needed to do to achieve his goals, but he wasn't Desada -- he didn't revel in pain or torment.
I do agree that Kirby's new gods were products of their time and hard to consider outside the 60s/70s. But....making them timeless as Morrison did may have been a necessary revolution.
It wasn't a necessarily evolution, in my view, because a lot of those same fears permeate society today. Science unrestrained by morality? The psychological horrors of war, and the depersonalization/disassociation of combat? Nature vs nurture? The need for freedom? The desire for love? The infinite power of friendship and unity?
Some of the trappings need updating, absolutely, but the cores of each of the characters are as strong as ever, IMHO.
Props for shouting out to Simonson. 👆
Goes without saying that he is the best New Gods writer in history, and his run is ultimately better than Kirby's for its literacy (though, of course, no where near as creative).
And out of curiosity, since I've been gone awhile, how did you find Final Crisis and the related tie-ins?
Disappointingly heavy handed. Still really good, but it sort of reiterated a lot of the same themes and ideas Morrison expounded in Seven Soldiers, but did so slightly less elegantly.
Even so, it ranks as probably the best or second best company wide crossover of all time, as it was brilliant. But I'd read Seven Soldiers over Final Crisis.
"Seven Soldiers over FC." That's actually believable, probably because I feel FC needed at least one or two more issues. It felt like they wrapped it up too soon.
Though, the part about DS liking fair, just combat: only when he feels it suits him. Recall that he deliberately arranged for the pact with Highfather to be broken by sending Scott Free to Granny. He did occasionally like to indulge in cheap shots, like the times he tormented Superman in pre-crisis.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestI didn't read it.
I was with him until he started blasting Final Crisis and saying siege was better. 👇 Morrison understood Kirby's concepts better than any writer before or since. Simonson is one of the few who really gets them as well.
But Seige better then FC? My ass it is.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestFC was awesome in it's inception but failed in delivery. That was due more to DC's powers that be tinkering with Morrison's story and creativity. The New Gods still sucked in that except Granny Goodness. She was bad ass.
"Seven Soldiers over FC." That's actually believable, probably because I feel FC needed at least one or two more issues. It felt like they wrapped it up too soon.Though, the part about DS liking fair, just combat: only when he feels it suits him. Recall that he deliberately arranged for the pact with Highfather to be broken by sending Scott Free to Granny. He did occasionally like to indulge in cheap shots, like the times he tormented Superman in pre-crisis.
Originally posted by The ReturnDesaad wasn't bad. And of course Darkseid came to the scene masterfully. But then, he's the only one who got to fully manifest.
FC was awesome in it's inception but failed in delivery. That was due more to DC's powers that be tinkering with Morrison's story and creativity. The New Gods still sucked in that except Granny Goodness. She was bad ass.