Is it even worth getting married anymore?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're asking me how it answers your question while, at the same time, telling me you don't get it and then having the nerve to say it was irrelevant?

It means no, it's not worth getting married. There's no logical point. Just because people want to, and feel they can justify using the ceremony that is marriage, doesn't mean there is any logical reason to do so.

Either way, it has nothing to do with love.

-AC

No logical point? Ever hear of tax breaks/benefits? I mean, if you plan on being with someone the rest of your life and you plan of having kids with them, marriage is clearly logical from a financial standpoint.

As far as love, that is clearly subjective; some people get married as a physical sign/gesture to show their love; granted it may not be necessary as in the marriage in of itself won't make the love greater or lesser, but it's there.

marriage as a financial advantage. ok. this is true, you get tax breaks and stuff, especially if you have kids, but marrying for this reason is a one way ticket to disaster. you cant marry someone because it makes sense financially. you marry someone because you LOVE them. you marry someone because you BOTH want it, and you BOTH are ready to spend the rest of your lives together. if you are with someone, and you both feel this way, NO, it doesnt mean you HAVE to get married. you could go the rest of your lives WITHOUT being married to each other, but be just as happy. the key to it all is that you BOTH have to be ready for it. if he or she is not ready, and you truly love them, you will WAIT for them to be ready. all that really matters is what is in your heart, how you feel towards each other.
i dont really agree with the christian outlook on marriage, that you have to marry. that if you have sex out of wedlock, you go to hell. that if you have a child out of wedlock, you go to hell. all that matters is that in your hearts, in your minds, you are one with your partner.

Originally posted by Robtard
No logical point? Ever hear of tax breaks/benefits? I mean, if you plan on being with someone the rest of your life and you plan of having kids with them, marriage is clearly logical from a financial standpoint.

As far as love, that is clearly subjective; some people get married as a physical sign/gesture to show their love; granted it may not be necessary as in the marriage in of itself won't make the love greater or lesser, but it's there.

Note where I said "EITHER WAY, it's nothing to do with love.". There are other ways to get benefits besides marriage.

As for your second part; No, you're wrong.

No matter how much someone says they want it, their partnership/relationship/love does not need it. I'm not saying people are wrong for wanting it, I'm saying that outside of any monetary purpose, there is no solid, logical reason. Entering a legally binding contract for love? Bs, no logical explanation for it.

It doesn't add anything at all. Proof:

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you marry someone because you LOVE them. you marry someone because you BOTH want it, and you BOTH are ready to spend the rest of your lives together. if you are with someone, and you both feel this way, NO, it doesnt mean you HAVE to get married. you could go the rest of your lives WITHOUT being married to each other, but be just as happy. the key to it all is that you BOTH have to be ready for it. if he or she is not ready, and you truly love them, you will WAIT for them to be ready. all that really matters is what is in your heart, how you feel towards each other.

"You marry someone because you love them.", followed by no reason as to why that would be necessary.

People want it because they are conditioned to want it.

If religion didn't exist and you found a bible in a library, hardly anybody would pick it up, read it and think, "I'd like to live my life this way!". It's conditioning.

-AC

i stated that people get married "because they are in love AND they both want it."
if it's what they both want, then it's the right thing to do. if they arent ready, then go slow, take it a day at a time, and see where the future leads you.
yes, i agree we are conditioned to want marriage. read the middle part of my post for my response to this.

I'm saying there's no logical reason to want it outside of monetary reasons.

-AC

Click, ho.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm saying there's no logical reason to want it outside of monetary reasons.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm saying there's no logical reason to want it outside of monetary reasons.

-AC

And to some (not all) people the ritual of marriage serves as a physical means of expressing their emotional love to each other. To them it's a logical means of expression and it's subjective as you may or may not feel the same way about love.

Originally posted by Robtard
And to some (not all) people the ritual of marriage serves as a physical means of expressing their emotional love to each other. To them it's a logical means of expression and it's subjective as you may or may not feel the same way about love.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so one day, lets say you meet....amy...just a name, for arguments sake. lets say that you love her with all your heart, she is everything to you, that you want to spend every waking moment with her, day and night. you are utterly and completely devoted to her and want her to have her children. she feels he same about you. now, one day, she hints at marriage. you are gonna say no because it is not logical?

You know your problem, RJ? So impatient.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so one day, lets say you meet....amy...just a name, for arguments sake. lets say that you love her with all your heart, she is everything to you, that you want to spend every waking moment with her, day and night. you are utterly and completely devoted to her and want her to have her children. she feels he same about you. now, one day, she hints at marriage. you are gonna say no because it is not logical?

I'm gonna say no because if we're so much in love and she still feels a legally binding ceremony will make things better, then she clearly doesn't "love" me as much as she says.

If she doesn't love me enough to break social conditioning, then she can forget it. Says a lot about her feelings.

Originally posted by Robtard
And to some (not all) people the ritual of marriage serves as a physical means of expressing their emotional love to each other. To them it's a logical means of expression and it's subjective as you may or may not feel the same way about love.

Nah, that's bs. There are plenty of more logical ways to express love physically than a legal/religious ceremony.

Have a plane write her name in the sky, get a star named after her, do whatever you want, hell, get married if it makes you happy. My point is, it's illogical, nothing to do with love at all. If it's a ceremony you truly want, make one up. My point is, marriage itself has nothing to do with love. People are conditioned to want it and there is no logical reason outside of monetary purposes as to why anybody should do it. Besides that, weddings are one of the most self-indulgent, self-important acts on the face of the Earth, in my opinion. Have you ever been to one? If you haven't; Take hours out of your own life to sit and watch two people sign a contract that isn't necessary anyway and then see how you feel. Bearing in mind the divorce rate in today's world.

Whether or not people feel it is, that's subjective. The objectivity of it is simple; Love and marriage are not inherently connected, people connect them. Marriage was invented to make sure there could be benefits in the event of failing love.

Marriage achieves nothing you didn't have in the first place, emotionally, physically. Legality is all it gives you.

In the event of a break up, any sensible person would want it to be as painless as possible. Not be tied up in court fighting with someone you love, or worse...once loved.

You're just as conditioned, fighting to justify marriage. Not gonna happen. I have no problem with love, I respect love highly, which is why I hate marriage.

-AC

i gotta ask. did something happen to you? has a girl hurt you before? i have a friend who thinks like you do, and he had his heart handed to him by some crazy byatch. if you'd rather not say, cool. i know its a personal question.

i just cant believe that in the prementioned scenario you would say no even if she wanted it. after all, in your mind she is "the one"....why not just give in to her? its not gonna change things much, and your lady will be happy.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i gotta ask. did something happen to you? has a girl hurt you before? i have a friend who thinks like you do, and he had his heart handed to him by some crazy byatch. if you'd rather not say, cool. i know its a personal question.

i just cant believe that in the prementioned scenario you would say no even if she wanted it. after all, in your mind she is "the one"....why not just give in to her? its not gonna change things much, and your lady will be happy.

Everyone has been hurt, everyone has been happy. Even at my happiest I've never wanted marriage. I have the presense of mind to not let society make that decision for me. I get one life, I'm not going to spend it making choices that society makes me think I should.

You're EXACTLY RIGHT, RJ. It's not going to change much, or anything at all, so why do it? If she needs something so pointless, so frivolous and needless, if our love isn't enough, then I know all I need to know about her feelings for me. If having an amazing love, amazing relationship and amazing friendship is not enough, if a legally binding contract is what she needs for us to have a future, then it's curtains.

Something else to think about; You notice how men have to be the one to compromise? "Oh go on, it's just marriage, it'll make her happy.". Why is it us? Society makes sheep out of women, now they want marriage for no justifiable reason and WE'RE the assholes for not caving in? I call bullshit.

Marriage = The world's oldest Hallmark celebration.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Everyone has been hurt, everyone has been happy. Even at my happiest I've never wanted marriage. I have the presense of mind to not let society make that decision for me. I get one life, I'm not going to spend it making choices that society makes me think I should.

You're EXACTLY RIGHT, RJ. It's not going to change much, or anything at all, so why do it? If she needs something so pointless, so frivolous and needless, if our love isn't enough, then I know all I need to know about her feelings for me. If having an amazing love, amazing relationship and amazing friendship is not enough, if a legally binding contract is what she needs for us to have a future, then it's curtains.

Something else to think about; You notice how men have to be the one to compromise? "Oh go on, it's just marriage, it'll make her happy.". Why is it us? Society makes sheep out of women, now they want marriage for no justifiable reason and WE'RE the assholes for not caving in? I call bullshit.

Marriage = The world's oldest Hallmark celebration.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Nah, that's bs. There are plenty of more logical ways to express love physically than a legal/religious ceremony.

Have a plane write her name in the sky, get a star named after her, do whatever you want, hell, get married if it makes you happy. My point is, it's illogical, nothing to do with love at all. If it's a ceremony you truly want, make one up. My point is, marriage itself has nothing to do with love. People are conditioned to want it and there is no logical reason outside of monetary purposes as to why anybody should do it. Besides that, weddings are one of the most self-indulgent, self-important acts on the face of the Earth, in my opinion. Have you ever been to one? If you haven't; Take hours out of your own life to sit and watch two people sign a contract that isn't necessary anyway and then see how you feel. Bearing in mind the divorce rate in today's world.

Whether or not people feel it is, that's subjective. The objectivity of it is simple; Love and marriage are not inherently connected, people connect them. Marriage was invented to make sure there could be benefits in the event of failing love.

Marriage achieves nothing you didn't have in the first place, emotionally, physically. Legality is all it gives you.

In the event of a break up, any sensible person would want it to be as painless as possible. Not be tied up in court fighting with someone you love, or worse...once loved.

You're just as conditioned, fighting to justify marriage. Not gonna happen. I have no problem with love, I respect love highly, which is why I hate marriage.

-AC

What's B.S. is you telling others of their feelings and what they're really feeling or not.

As far as other ways of expressing love, you're absolutely correct, people express love in different ways, i.e it's subjective.

Yes, I've been in a wedding and I have been to many... "self-indulgent" and "self-important" are subjective.

Correct, love and marriage are not inherently connected, that doesn't automatically mean they can't be as people get married for different reasons, sometimes out of greed, sometimes out of pressure and guest what, sometimes out of love. It happens.

I'm conditioned... 😕 If you say so, but I am not fighting to justify marriage, I am saying marriage can be about love, not it has to be about love. On the other hand, you're taking an absolute stance on something clearly subjective.

Seems like your (possible) fears and negative bias towards marriage are not letting you think objectively. If you think marriage is B.S. and you never want to marry, no problem, that's your choice, but don't lay the law to others feelings or how they feel. I for one married out of love as legally, my marriage has given me at best a small tax break, nothing else.

Originally posted by Robtard
What's B.S. is you telling others of their feelings and what they're really feeling or not.

As far as other ways of expressing love, you're absolutely correct, people express love in different ways, i.e it's subjective.

Yes, I've been in a wedding and I have been to many... "self-indulgent" and "self-important" are subjective.

Correct, love and marriage are not inherently connected, that doesn't automatically mean they can't be as people get married for different reasons, sometimes out of greed, sometimes out of pressure and guest what, sometimes out of love. It happens.

I'm conditioned... 😕 If you say so, but I am not fighting to justify marriage, I am saying marriage can be about love, not it has to be about love. On the other hand, you're taking an absolute stance on something clearly subjective.

Seems like your (possible) fears and negative bias towards marriage are not letting you think objectively. If you think marriage is B.S. and you never want to marry, no problem, that's your choice, but don't lay the law to others feelings or how they feel. I for one married out of love as legally, my marriage has given me at best a small tax break, nothing else.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
or doing what society thinks they should do if they decide to get married. like if the guy wants to get married, and the woman loves him as i posted, then she should do it. OBVIOUSLY when she is ready, not a month or year or whenever from when he states his interests into entering a binding contract such as marriage, but when she is ready. if it takes a few years, he will wait for her. the door swings both ways. if she wants it, he should EVENTUALLY do it, and vice versa. the whole "things wouldnt change much" theory that we agree on works both ways.

It will always be society conditioning if you're not getting married for legal reasons. Why? Because there is simply no other reason to do so. Love doesn't enter into it at all. Love doesn't need marriage.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
also, a successful relationship hinges entirely upon EQUAL compromise. the guy makes sacrifices, just as the girl does. FJ and I have this down to a science.

Wake up someday and realise that you and FJ are not every couple in the world. The divorce rate tells a different tale.

It's clearly not all sacrifice from both, because marriage is conditioned and if one wants it and the other doesn't, who feels bad? Who feels obligated to change? The one WANTING to? No.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
it took a while, but we have learnt to read each other and see who is more in need of whatever they want at that specific moment. sometimes its 50/50. sometimes its 70/30. sometimes its 90/10. but, it all averages out to 50/50, or pretty close to it.
someday you will change your tune, trust me. when i was 20 (you are 20, right?) there was NO WAY i was getting married. i was gonna be a Rogue forever. BUT....things happen, your outlook on life changes. things that happened to me (i think i told only Bardock about it via pm's) made me see life differently.
BTW: whats this hallmark conspiracy theory you speak of? 😂

Please don't dare be so presumptuous and desperate as to use the geriatric debate of "Someday you'll...". No. How about you let me decide what I'll do? Does that work? Swell.

"I said no way, but I did. That means you will!". No, it means you lacked the conviction to stick to your beliefs, RJ. It doesn't mean I'll abandon mine.

I never said I'd be a rogue, I said I'd never get married, I don't want to. That's a fact.

Originally posted by Robtard
What's B.S. is you telling others of their subjective feelings and what they're really feeling or not.

Excuse me? I didn't tell anyone what they're feeling or not, I said marriage is illogical when you truly break it all down into sense and reason, and it is. Nobody has proven me wrong yet. Have the balls to admit it, please.

Originally posted by Robtard
As far as other ways of expressing love, you're absolutely correct, people express love in different ways, i.e it's subjective.

And proof is that you don't need a legally binding contract to do so, as we are all raised to believe. Outside of monetary purposes there is no LOGICAL reason to do so. If they want it, fine, go for it. If it makes you happy, do it. THAT is subjective. What ISN'T subjective is there being reasons other than money or legality, for marriage. There isn't.

Name some, if there are. Love? No, it isn't necessary. Children? Not necessary really either.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, I've been in a wedding and I have been to many... "self-indulgent" and "self-important" are subjective.

That was never under argument, it was a side issue.

Originally posted by Robtard
Correct, love and marriage are not inherently connected, that doesn't automatically mean they can't be as people get married for different reasons, sometimes out of greed, sometimes out of pressure and guest what, sometimes out of love. It happens.

You're missing the point again.

People get married out of love, that doesn't mean they needed to, it doesn't mean the love is increased. Marriage does not ADD anything, it does not take away anything by not being there. The very fact that unmarried couples exist proves that.

People can give love as their reason all they want, but that doesn't make it necessary. Marriage is not necessary. There's no logical reason (That's not to say it's WRONG, as you believe I'm saying) for it.

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm conditioned... If you say so, but I am not fighting to justify marriage, I am saying marriage can be about love, not it has to be about love. On the other hand, you're taking an absolute stance on something clearly subjective.

You're misunderstanding me AGAIN.

Marriage can be ABOUT love from anyone's point of view, but when broken down, when asked "Why?". There is no LOGICAL reason. Illogical doesn't mean wrong, it means illogical.

"We want to get married!", "Why?", "We love each other.", "Yes, but you don't need to get married.", "We choose to.", "That's fine, but it's still not logical.". That's my point.

Originally posted by Robtard
Seems like your [possible] fears and negative bias towards marriage are not letting you think objectively. If you think marriage is B.S. and you never want to marry, no problem, that's your choice, but don't lay the law to others feelings or how they feel. I for one married out of love as legally, my marriage has given me at best a small tax break, nothing else.

Oh great. Can't back the debate up on normal grounds so you resort to "It's your fears.". No, it's not fear. It's me being able to see that marriage isn't necessary in any way other than monetary.

Whether or not people choose to do it out of love is irrelevant. That doesn't make it logical, it makes it choice. Choices aren't inherently logical just because you WANT to make them.

You married out of love, great, it wasn't necessary though.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It will always be society conditioning if you're not getting married for legal reasons. Why? Because there is simply no other reason to do so. Love doesn't enter into it at all. Love doesn't need marriage.

Wake up someday and realise that you and FJ are not every couple in the world. The divorce rate tells a different tale.

It's clearly not all sacrifice from both, because marriage is conditioned and if one wants it and the other doesn't, who feels bad? Who feels obligated to change? The one WANTING to? No.

Please don't dare be so presumptuous and desperate as to use the geriatric debate of "Someday you'll...". No. How about you let me decide what I'll do? Does that work? Swell.

"I said no way, but I did. That means you will!". No, it means you lacked the conviction to stick to your beliefs, RJ. It doesn't mean I'll abandon mine.

I never said I'd be a rogue, I said I'd never get married, I don't want to. That's a fact.

Excuse me? I didn't tell anyone what they're feeling or not, I said marriage is illogical when you truly break it all down into sense and reason, and it is. Nobody has proven me wrong yet. Have the balls to admit it, please.

And proof is that you don't need a legally binding contract to do so, as we are all raised to believe. Outside of monetary purposes there is no LOGICAL reason to do so. If they want it, fine, go for it. If it makes you happy, do it. THAT is subjective. What ISN'T subjective is there being reasons other than money or legality, for marriage. There isn't.

Name some, if there are. Love? No, it isn't necessary. Children? Not necessary really either.

That was never under argument, it was a side issue.

You're missing the point again.

People get married out of love, that doesn't mean they needed to, it doesn't mean the love is increased. Marriage does not ADD anything, it does not take away anything by not being there. The very fact that unmarried couples exist proves that.

People can give love as their reason all they want, but that doesn't make it necessary. Marriage is not necessary. There's no logical reason (That's not to say it's WRONG, as you believe I'm saying) for it.

You're misunderstanding me AGAIN.

Marriage can be ABOUT love from anyone's point of view, but when broken down, when asked "Why?". There is no LOGICAL reason. Illogical doesn't mean wrong, it means illogical.

"We want to get married!", "Why?", "We love each other.", "Yes, but you don't need to get married.", "We choose to.", "That's fine, but it's still not logical.". That's my point.

Oh great. Can't back the debate up on normal grounds so you resort to "It's your fears.". No, it's not fear. It's me being able to see that marriage isn't necessary in any way other than monetary.

Whether or not people choose to do it out of love is irrelevant. That doesn't make it logical, it makes it choice. Choices aren't inherently logical just because you WANT to make them.

You married out of love, great, it wasn't necessary though.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so if someone who has experienced more than you gives you advice, or tries to tell you "i thought the same as you did, some day you will change your tune" do you just automatically blow them off?
honestly, you could be right. you could go the rest of your life without wanting to be married. but....odds are if you enter into a long term relationship, eventually she will want to get married. she will want to nest. she will get baby fever. now i am sure she will wait for you, say to herself "ok, AC isnt ready for marriage yet, but i love him. i will wait a while for him to be ready for it." she will be a trooper and be there for you. but....eventually she will grow tired of waiting. eventually she will give you the ultimatum. NOW.....if she gives you the ultimatum too sopn, and its like "marry me now or we are through", then i am sure you know to stick to your guns and tell her to stuff the white dress up her butt. but if you guys are together for years, everything is perfect, and she tells you "baby, i am sorry, but i NEED marriage. will you do this one little thing for me?" are you telling me that you would throw away a chance at pure happiness just because you dont believe in marriage? you wouldnt sacrifice a day in a tuxedo just to make her happy? most women will want marriage at one point in their lives, its just the way the world is. if you dont realize this, then you will die a lonely man.

First of all, you used that word. Don't tell me I "could" be right. I am right, I'm talking about me. I know me better than you do. The difference between you and I is clear; You said you'd never get married and clearly there was room for persuasion. With me, there is none. I know that for a fact. You are saying it's not a fact because you chose to write a bigger cheque than your conscience could cash.

For me? No kids, no marriage. I recognise that as a result of my beliefs and females largely wanting/or being conditioned to want both of those, it will be difficult to maintain a relationship in the long run, but I'm not someone who feels they have to "settle down". If it happens, great, if not, so what? I'm not so fearful of "being alone" as many men or women are. That's where compromises come in. People change because they're afraid of what it'll mean if they do not. The idea of "dying a lonely man" isn't something that will force me into marriage. I'd rather die lonely than unhappy, knowing I compromised a choice in life that I didn't want to make, to be with someone who didn't love me enough to skip legality. Besides, being alone doesn't necessarily mean being lonely. We're not in relationships 24/7 for all our lives, many people IN relationships feel "alone".

So no. I recognise you're in some epic battle here, but my word is my word. As shocking as it may seem, that's how it is. If you're going to reply, do so relevantly, don't tell me what I will and won't do.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
, don't tell me what I will and won't do.

-AC

I bet you're waiting to get the right stink on your tip.