Is it even worth getting married anymore?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Excuse me? I didn't tell anyone what they're feeling or not, I said reason, and it is. Nobody has proven me wrong yet. Have the balls to marriage is illogical when you truly break it all down into sense and admit it, please.

And proof is that you don't need a legally binding contract to do so, as we are all raised to believe. Outside of monetary purposes there is no LOGICAL reason to do so. If they want it, fine, go for it. If it makes you happy, do it. THAT is subjective. What ISN'T subjective is there being reasons other than money or legality, for marriage. There isn't.

Name some, if there are. Love? No, it isn't necessary. Children? Not necessary really either.

That was never under argument, it was a side issue.

You're missing the point again.

People get married out of love, that doesn't mean they needed to, it doesn't mean the love is increased. Marriage does not ADD anything, it does not take away anything by not being there. The very fact that unmarried couples exist proves that.

People can give love as their reason all they want, but that doesn't make it necessary. Marriage is not necessary. There's no logical reason (That's not to say it's WRONG, as you believe I'm saying) for it.

You're misunderstanding me AGAIN.

Marriage can be ABOUT love from anyone's point of view, but when broken down, when asked "Why?". There is no LOGICAL reason. Illogical doesn't mean wrong, it means illogical.

"We want to get married!", "Why?", "We love each other.", "Yes, but you don't need to get married.", "We choose to.", "That's fine, but it's still not logical.". That's my point.

Oh great. Can't back the debate up on normal grounds so you resort to "It's your fears.". No, it's not fear. It's me being able to see that marriage isn't necessary in any way other than monetary.

Whether or not people choose to do it out of love is irrelevant. That doesn't make it logical, it makes it choice. Choices aren't inherently logical just because you WANT to make them.

You married out of love, great, it wasn't necessary though.

-AC

So you want me to "have the balls" and admit against something I've been through and I know why I did it. Marriage may be illogical to you, it's subjective as you do not see it as any form of gain; but how can tell someone else what they gained or didn't gain from a marriage love wise? That's illogical.

"What ISN'T subjective is there being reasons other than money or legality, for marriage."-

Correct as you stated the two above reasons to get married and those two in themselves are logical reasons. If you plan on being with someone the rest of your life it's logical to get married as it will bring you benefits that merely living together forever wouldn't; yet marriage is illogical?

So is the "love" aspect of a marriage what you define as being "illogical", if so I can't really argue with you as love is subjective. Maybe a marriage will bring you and your spouse a greater love, maybe it won't. I certainly cannot judge that.

Correct, I did marry out of love and correct it wasn't necessary; I could be living with my "girlfriend" and have a child with her all the same, but not being necessary doesn't make it "illogical" by default and you have no measure of what I gained or didn't gain.

Originally posted by Robtard
So you want me to "have the balls" and admit against something I've been through and I know why I did it. Marriage may be illogical to you, it's subjective as you do not see it as any form of gain; but how can tell someone else what they gained or didn't gain from a marriage love wise? That's illogical.

It's not subjective, it's objective. You just refuse to see beyond your choice to marry. I can see beyond my choice, I can see why you chose to marry. You married out of love, you're very happy, congratulations. I mean that sincerely. However, marriage is simply something you wanted to do, you didn't NEED to. You didn't love your wife more now that she was legally Mrs. Your Name did you? I'd sure as hell hope not. I'd hope that the love is there and you love her as you always did, if not more so. If that's the case, it's to do with emotion, not marriage, not legality.

Wanting, choosing and prefering marriage is fine by me. I don't want it so I won't do it, I've got nothing against anyone being married. My point is, choosing to enter a legally binding contract JUST BECAUSE it has socially suggested connections with love, doesn't mean it IS connected. There is not logical reason as to why anybody would want to marry outside of monetary benefit, and so what? If it makes you happy, do it, it doesn't need to make sense, but just recognise that it doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Robtard
Correct as you stated the two above reasons to get married and those two in themselves are logical reasons. If you plan on being with someone the rest of your life it's logical to get married as it will bring you benefits that merely living together forever wouldn't; yet marriage is illogical?

It's logical to want happiness, it's not logical to conduct and involve yourself in a ceremony that literally does not give happiness. You might be happy WITH it, but that's only because in your mind you are telling yourself it makes you happy. If you were unhappy with your lady, marriage wouldn't fix things. Marriage is something happy couples think makes them happier, without realising that they ARE happy, therefore they get married. They put the cart before the horse. You're not often happy because you're married, you're married because you're happy. That's totally fine, however, it's not a logical reason to GET MARRIED.

There are many logical reasons to pursue happiness, but marriage outside of monetary gain is simply pursuing the logical in an illogical way. Like trying to get high by drinking beer.

Originally posted by Robtard
So is the "love" aspect of a marriage what you define as being "illogical", if so I can't really argue with you as love is subjective. Maybe a marriage will bring you and your spouse a greater love, maybe it won't.

The last line is what you need to pay attention to. Maybe it will bring greater love, maybe it won't? No. Marriage brings nothing in itself. If you and your spouse are married because you're happy, that's different than being happy because you are married. I.e: "We are happy, so we got married.", the marriage is incidental. "We are married, so we're happy.", that's bs. It's illogical. It happens, but it's illogical.

Originally posted by Robtard
Correct, I did marry out of love and correct it wasn't necessary; I could be living with my "girlfriend" and have a child with her all the same, but not being necessary doesn't make it "illogical" by default.

The methods behind the choice are what make it illogical or not, quite right. See above.

If you're marrying with a view to increasing your love, that's illogical, since marriage doesn't give that. It might spark a conscious/subsconscious thought that would make you more happy, like when doctors prescribe placebos and people just end up convincing themselves they're not sick anymore. Marriage might just convince you that it made you more happy, the fact is, the act itself cannot.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not subjective, it's objective. You just refuse to see beyond your choice to marry. I can see beyond my choice, I can see why you chose to marry. You married out of love, you're very happy, congratulations. I mean that sincerely. However, marriage is simply something you wanted to do, you didn't NEED to. You didn't love your wife more now that she was legally Mrs. Your Name did you? I'd sure as hell hope not. I'd hope that the love is there and you love her as you always did, if not more so. If that's the case, it's to do with emotion, not marriage, not legality.

Wanting, choosing and prefering marriage is fine by me. I don't want it so I won't do it, I've got nothing against anyone being married. My point is, choosing to enter a legally binding contract JUST BECAUSE it has socially suggested connections with love, doesn't mean it IS connected. There is not logical reason as to why anybody would want to marry outside of monetary benefit, and so what? If it makes you happy, do it, it doesn't need to make sense, but just recognise that it doesn't make sense.

It's logical to want happiness, it's not logical to conduct and involve yourself in a ceremony that literally does not give happiness. You might be happy WITH it, but that's only because in your mind you are telling yourself it makes you happy. If you were unhappy with your lady, marriage wouldn't fix things. Marriage is something happy couples think makes them happier, without realising that they ARE happy, therefore they get married. They put the cart before the horse. You're not often happy because you're married, you're married because you're happy. That's totally fine, however, it's not a logical reason to GET MARRIED.

There are many logical reasons to pursue happiness, but marriage outside of monetary gain is simply pursuing the logical in an illogical way. Like trying to get high by drinking beer.

The last line is what you need to pay attention to. Maybe it will bring greater love, maybe it won't? No. Marriage brings nothing in itself. If you and your spouse are married because you're happy, that's different than being happy because you are married. I.e: "We are happy, so we got married.", the marriage is incidental. "We are married, so we're happy.", that's bs. It's illogical. It happens, but it's illogical.

The methods behind the choice are what make it illogical or not, quite right. See above.

If you're marrying with a view to increasing your love, that's illogical, since marriage doesn't give that. It might spark a conscious/subsconscious thought that would make you more happy, like when doctors prescribe placebos and people just end up convincing themselves they're not sick anymore. Marriage might just convince you that it made you more happy, the fact is, the act itself cannot.

-AC

I just have one question... How can you definitively state that marriage will not make two people more in love? That the motions of marriage being a physical means of expression will not produce a greater love in two people?

As for me, I cannot say I love her more simply because we're married, I do love her more now than I did five years ago, but I cannot honestly attribute it to the marriage; maybe if I didn't marry her I'd love her even greater or maybe we wouldn't be together in that alternate "non-'married" time-line; I simple cannot attest to something that didn't happen.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not because I believe it is, because it is, as I've given many examples to. Why are you having trouble with this? Stop focusing on me, focus on what I'm saying and why.

I'll say it again so even you can understand it, RJ.

If two people get married for love, it's not wrong, there's nothing wrong with it, but it IS illogical because there is no justifiable or ultimately necessary reason for doing so. Choosing to do it out of love does not make that a logical choice.

It is fact, that's just how it is. If anybody told me it was logical to get married for any other reason than monetary gain, I'd say it was illogical. It simply is. Nobody is saying it's wrong to get married for love, it's just illogical. There is factually no good explanation, is there? "We wanted to.", "We're in love.", yes? So what? You don't NEED to get married, there's nothing causing you to, nothing forcing you to, you're not gaining anything emotionally, you just choose to.

If you STILL don't get this, then don't try debating the point. Let someone else do it. Don't sit there saying I'm wrong when you really don't grasp the general point anyway.

You couldn't counter with that, because then I could say "Nothing is gained by marriage, nothing at all. No matter how bad you want to marry, you gain nothing.". It's not void of logic NOT to marry. I suggest you start grabbing a dictionary and looking up some of these words.

So once again; Marriage is a choice, but that doesn't make it logical. If you're getting married for any reason other than legal benefit, it's pointless. If you disagree, give me a point, give me a reason, and no, not "They love each other.". That's a choice void of sound reasoning or necessity.

Why are you being an idiot? The answer is yes. We are discussing me, so my word is final. The answer is yes, I know it won't ever happen. That's just the way it is.

Stop being ignorant just because you need something to cling onto in this debate. Accept the truth, because that is what it is, truth. Nothing will change that alters my point of view on this. Marriage will never be different to be, so therefore I will never do it. This is a fact, you cannot deny it. To do so is ignorant. You don't get to decide whether I'm right or wrong here, RJ, I do. Accept this and move on. Get a different point, a better one. Leave this one out of the debate because I'm tired of you being dumb about it.

No, it wasn't logical just because they WANTED to. That does not make it logical. You need to go and read what the definition says.

I've told you many, many times that no, it's not wrong that they are happy, what the hell is your problem? Why do you keep ignoring my points? It being what's right for them does not make it LOGICAL. Smoking cigarettes might be "right" for you, but it does not make it logical to inhale tar and chemicals that poison your lungs. I'm honestly tired of you asking me how things can't be logical when I have used dictionary definition and multiple examples to show you how.

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying it's illogical, and no, definition and meaning, in this case, simply do not differ. You are misusing the word. Maybe this is why you were better suited to the OTF.

No, you don't have any room to disagree regarding me and my beliefs OF MYSELF. What I say about me and my beliefs is fact. I say I will never get married, that's a fact. You have no room to disagree, and doing so just makes you ignorant to fact. Your inability to hold your beliefs has caused you to believe everyone else is as weak, that's not the case, deal with it.

Think I'm crazy all you want, but don't sit there disagreeing, it's not your right to disagree with me about my own personal choices.

"I'm not going to do this, I know I won't.", "No, I think you will.", "No, I won't, simple as that.", "I disagree.".

It's dumb. You don't know me better than I do, and I'm telling you you're wrong. If you told me something about your beloved FJ that you knew for sure, FOR SURE as a fact, and I kept saying "Hmm, I disagree.". It'd annoy you because you'd know that what you said was 100% true and unwavering. Hence my position, what I say is true, it always will be.

From now on, if you still stupidly disagree, do so in your mind, not in this debate. It's pointless for me to keep telling you how factually wrong you are. Keep it to marriage in general.

-AC

i GET the point that you are against marriage. what i am questioning now is your inability to grasp the fact that you COULD be wrong. me, personally, i am just going with my opinion, i am not saying shit and saying it's an actual fact, that there is no way i can be wrong. you are not god and you are not a seer, and you are not all knowing. or do you think you really are?

also, i never called you crazy, i said to think in such a way is crazy. for you to think that it's impossible that you are wrong and that you will never change your mind is crazy. not you personally, just that line of thinking.

and now we get to the insults. just because i disagree does not make me stupid. it means i am exercising my free will. i expect the same from you. also, you have no business telling me i am better suited for any part of the forum. i think you are just pissed because i am noit bowing down and accepting your word as law.

as far as me and FJ go, there are very few things that i would say "no, she'll never do that" or "no, that'll never happen" to. now, if i said "She will never do drugs or get high" and you said "RJ, buddy, there is no way you can know that"........you are right. there is no way of telling how any one person will feel on any given topic from one day to the next. i know that in your heart, in your mind, marriage is illogical. i get that, i really do. BUT.....there is no way you are ever going to convince me that you will NEVER change your mind.

the more you tell me "i am factually wrong", then the more i will "stupidly disagree". what you are saying is only an opinion, not fact. an opinion is never a fact. you want a fact? E=MC2.....thats a fact.

so let's be nice. no need for hurling insults and/or telling me that your word is written in stone, that it is infallible. i do not claim this, as i have no right to. what gives you the right to?

Originally posted by Robtard
I just have one question... How can you definitively state that marriage will not make two people more in love? That the motions of marriage being a physical means of expression will not produce a greater love in two people?

You're not saying anything different. The act may, vicariously cause a greater love, the idea of it, but the actual act itself does not/cannot provide love. It's just a contract.

If you weren't in love and you got married, it wouldn't magically make you fall in love. It might have the placebo effect, but that's all.

Originally posted by Robtard
As for me, I cannot say I love her more simply because we're married, I do love her more now than I did five years ago, but I cannot honestly attribute it to the marriage; maybe if I didn't marry her I'd love her even greater or maybe we wouldn't be together in that alternate "non-'married" time-line; I simple cannot attest to something that didn't happen.

Precisely, it's emotion. Legality is a non-issue.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so if two people marry for love, its not wrong, correct? ok. that would mean it's the right thing to do.

For them. Right doesn't mean logical.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
since when is the right choice illogical? if you have a choice in your life, whether it's marriage, going to college, whether or not to stay out all night drinking when you have to be at work the next morning, what's the logical choice? which is the right choice? which is the wrong choice? if you stay out all night knowing you have an early morning exam or have to be at work early, did you make the illogical or logical choice in getting tanked? would it have been more logical to stay home and get plenty of sleep? is this the right choice or the logical choice? remember, we are arguing logic here, not marriage anymore. i think the whole debate has moved beyond marriage.

Are you genuinely going out of your way to misinterpret what I'm saying?

Since when is the right choice illogical? It's not inherently illogical. What's "right" for you can be either. For some people, not going in for chemo when they have cancer is the right thing to do, despite doctors saying "If you do this, you'll get better.". That's right for the patient, but it's illogical.

Making the choice that is personally right for you does not make it a logical one. The debate hasn't moved beyond marriage, you just don't get logic because you don't understand it, RJ. Don't try proving how I'm wrong just because you have the wrong perception of the term. Its definition agrees with me, the word's definition, not mine. Meaning and definition aren't different in this case, but to indulge your pathetic example; If you know you have work but you want to stay out drinking and do so, that's what's RIGHT for you, but it's not logical.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i GET the point that you are against marriage. what i am questioning now is your inability to grasp the fact that you COULD be wrong. me, personally, i am just going with my opinion, i am not saying shit and saying it's an actual fact, that there is no way i can be wrong. you are not god and you are not a seer, and you are not all knowing. or do you think you really are?

What? I'm not against marriage, you're being stupid and ignorant to my points. I personally don't want to do it, but I'm not against it, people can do whatever they want.

What YOU don't get is that there is not "could be wrong". I'm not wrong, I know for a fact I am right about myself. End of story. The debate (not that there is one) needn't go further than that. You asked me about myself, I told you a factual reply. That's the part where you say "Then that's how it is for you.". Not, "Well I think you could be wrong.". There is no "could" or "might".

I'm all knowing when it comes to how I feel about myself, my beliefs, values and opinions. I am telling you, factually that WHATEVER HAPPENS in life, which I do not know of, I PERSONALLY will never change that belief. Now what is your damn problem? You changed, big deal. Deal with your own choice. Maybe you're just insecure that you didn't want marriage and ended up getting shanghai-ed into it. It won't happen to me, fact. I'm not speaking for anyone or anything but me, and I am right.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
also, i never called you crazy, i said to think in such a way is crazy. for you to think that it's impossible that you are wrong and that you will never change your mind is crazy. not you personally, just that line of thinking.

It's not crazy, you just can't grasp it. It's a simple concept. What's crazy is you thinking you have an opinion equal to mine of myself, when mine isn't an opinion, it's a fact. You have no right to say I'm possibly wrong, you don't get to do that. It's not an option, and doing so is ignorant. I'm not speaking for you or anyone/anything else. JUST me and that part of my beliefs. They won't change.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and now we get to the insults. just because i disagree does not make me stupid. it means i am exercising my free will. i expect the same from you. also, you have no business telling me i am better suited for any part of the forum. i think you are just pissed because i am noit bowing down and accepting your word as law.

No, it's just odd that you think you can apply your wrong opinion to me. My word regarding ME is law, it's fact. Nobody else can say any different, the same goes for you or anybody. If you said "I know for a fact...etc etc", about a belief you have, I have no right to challenge it. Whether or not you PERSONALLY change/changed has no bearing on me or my future. You obviously didn't have a strong enough belief.

You are being stupid so I called you stupid. What you are doing is really idiotic. You can't disagree with me over my own beliefs and what I know to be factually true of myself.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
as far as me and FJ go, there are very few things that i would say "no, she'll never do that" or "no, that'll never happen" to. now, if i said "She will never do drugs or get high" and you said "RJ, buddy, there is no way you can know that"........you are right. there is no way of telling how any one person will feel on any given topic from one day to the next. i know that in your heart, in your mind, marriage is illogical. i get that, i really do. BUT.....there is no way you are ever going to convince me that you will NEVER change your mind.

That's because you would be speaking about another person, it doesn't work like that.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
the more you tell me "i am factually wrong", then the more i will "stupidly disagree".

Which is why you're stupid. You're doing it cos you think it makes it any more credible for you. It doesn't. My word over me is as factual as it was when it started.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
what you are saying is only an opinion, not fact. an opinion is never a fact. you want a fact? E=MC2.....thats a fact.

I know an opinion is never a fact. Mine isn't an opinion, it's a fact. I know it's a fact because I am me. End of story. It's a fact. It's an undeniable truth.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so let's be nice. no need for hurling insults and/or telling me that your word is written in stone, that it is infallible. i do not claim this, as i have no right to. what gives you the right to?

Because I am factually right about myself. You not having the spine to make such concrete claims about your beliefs is your problem, it doesn't mean I am the same.

You are attempting to disagree with me about ME. Who knows more? Me. My word about ME is law. Yours means nothing when it comes to discussing me and my beliefs, and vice versa. Don't sit there and expect to be treated with respect, asking not to be called stupid or ignorant when you are being both stupid and ignorant.

You do it, I'll say it. Until you can get off the fence and realise that your word means nothing when we discuss me, I will continue to do so. Fact is fact, you not liking it doesn't turn a fact into an opinion.

Let's try something out; RJ, you can't sit there and tell me you will never molest a child. You simply don't know that. You might sit there saying you never will, but you don't know, man. People change. You don't know that you won't become a rapist and a paedophile, you just don't know. You might. Are you willing to admit that you might possibly become those things? After all, you don't know. Or are you going to do what we know is correct, and say "No, I won't ever do that shit."?

Saying the former just to attempt to counter me will make you look very bad and very silly, saying the latter will prove my point. Answer how you will, and don't dodge it (Which you will.).

-AC

quick recap: you dont believe in marriage other than monetary reasons. your word is law. when someone disagrees with you, they are stupid and should just bow down and accept your word as fact. you will never change your line of thinking. there is nothing that will ever change your mind on the subject of marriage. is this about right?

as far as molesting a child goes, i can certainly tell you that i have no interest in doing that. but you are right, theres no way i can tell what the future holds. you just proved my point by asking me this.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
quick recap: you dont believe in marriage other than monetary reasons. your word is law. when someone disagrees with you, they are stupid and should just bow down and accept your word as fact. you will never change your line of thinking. there is nothing that will ever change your mind on the subject of marriage. is this about right?

Here comes the traditional Rogue Jedi: "I'm upset so I'll purposefully misinterpret everything.".

A) No, it's not a matter of me not believing in marriage. You've ignored me AGAIN. It's a matter of me proving there is no logic in marrying for anything besides monetary concern. Doesn't make it wrong, makes it illogical.

B) My word is law regarding MYSELF. Not everything else. I just happen to be correct regarding marriage. Not because I say so, because I have proven so.

C) No, someone is stupid when they act stupid. Robtard disagrees, I don't think he's stupid. I think you're stupid because you're acting stupid. You're being ignorant and foolhardy. You refuse to accept that you can't grasp what's being said, and so rather than make an attempt to understand, you just push misunderstanding.

D) Precisely. My words regarding marriage and me are fact. End of story.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
as far as molesting a child goes, i can certainly tell you that i have no interest in doing that. but you are right, theres no way i can tell what the future holds. you just proved my point by asking me this.

And you've proven mine by replying in such a way for the sake of countering me. Congratulations. You walked right into that one.

YOU personally aren't sure if it will ever happen, so you say "I'm not sure, I might. You're right.". Precisely. You see, I am sure, so when I say "I'll never marry.", I'm right. If you said "No way, I will never molest a child, I will never be a rapist, I know that for a fact.", it's not within my rights to disagree.

Try again.

-AC

I'll marry you, AC. Come here, let me give you a hug.

Will there be Sunny Delight? If so, I accept.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Here comes the traditional Rogue Jedi: "I'm upset so I'll purposefully misinterpret everything.

A) No, it's not a matter of me not believing in marriage. You've ignored me AGAIN. It's a matter of me proving there is no logic in marrying for anything besides monetary concern. Doesn't make it wrong, makes it illogical.

B) My word is law regarding MYSELF. Not everything else. I just happen to be correct regarding marriage. Not because I say so, because I have proven so.

C) No, someone is stupid when they act stupid. Robtard disagrees, I don't think he's stupid. I think you're stupid because you're acting stupid. You're being ignorant and foolhardy. You refuse to accept that you can't grasp what's being said, and so rather than make an attempt to understand, you just push misunderstanding.

D) Precisely. My words regarding marriage and me are fact. End of story.

And you've proven mine by replying in such a way for the sake of countering me. Congratulations. You walked right into that one.

YOU personally aren't sure if it will ever happen, so you say "I'm not sure, I might. You're right.". Precisely. You see, I am sure, so when I say "I'll never marry.", I'm right.

Try again.

-AC

ok, lets get off the molestation thing, thats just weird. lets change it to "RJ, can you honestly say you will never strike a woman." thats more comfortable. honestly, i can never imagine myself, not in any walk of life hitting a woman. i wasnt raised that way. i actually had a girl kick me in the nads in a crowded nightclub once, and i didnt retaliate. i looked like a fool, but i was a man about it. i actually deserved it. 😂 ....anyways, me hitting a girl? i cannot honestly say that it might happen. i cant imagine it happening, but nothing is impossible, right? just like you changing your mind about marriage being illogical outside monetary reasons. if i can say that i cant imagine myself hitting a girl, but that its not impossible, that shit happens, why cant you say the same about marriage being illogical? do you really think that people dont change over time?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Will there be Sunny Delight? If so, I accept.

-AC

Sorry, only freshly squeezed in my neighbourhood. See, I knew you'd change your tune.

also, its TOTALLY within your rights to disagree!!! if i say that i will never be a taliban commando, you have the right to disagree. you can say its unlikely, but not impossible. if someone says something about something and you disagree or think they are full of shit, you, me, and everyone else here has room to disagree.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
ok, lets get off the molestation thing, thats just weird. lets change it to "RJ, can you honestly say you will never strike a woman." thats more comfortable. honestly, i can never imagine myself, not in any walk of life hitting a woman. i wasnt raised that way. i actually had a girl kick me in the nads in a crowded nightclub once, and i didnt retaliate. i looked like a fool, but i was a man about it. i actually deserved it. 😂 ....anyways, me hitting a girl? i cannot honestly say that it might happen. i cant imagine it happening, but nothing is impossible, right? just like you changing your mind about marriage being illogical outside monetary reasons. if i can say that i cant imagine myself hitting a girl, but that its not impossible, that shit happens, why cant you say the same about marriage being illogical? do you really think that people dont change over time?

No, let's not change it. Let's progress with the idea.

You are prepared to sit there and say that you are not sure if you will ever molest a child, why? Because you say "I don't know what the future holds.", is this true or not? If the answer is yes, as you have said it to be, then fine. YOU aren't sure of yourself, me? Regarding marriage, I am. I know for a fact it'll never happen. Are you prepared to tell me there is NOTHING that you would never ever do? I call bs on that, quite frankly. Then again, you say nothing is impossible, which is factually incorrect.

I'm telling you I'll never get married, that's a fact. As for marriage being illogical, I've proven it. Nobody has proven otherwise.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
also, its TOTALLY within your rights to disagree!!! if i say that i will never be a taliban commando, you have the right to disagree. you can say its unlikely, but not impossible. if someone says something about something and you disagree or think they are full of shit, you, me, and everyone else here has room to disagree.

No, that's where you misunderstand. If you say you won't ever be one, I'm not going to sit here and say "You never know.". Whether or not you DO become one isn't my concern, I don't know any better than you. You know your feelings better than me, I know mine better than you. So I can't tell you any different, and you can't do the same for me.

Your problem is that you are far too non-committal to concrete areas. You think nothing is impossible, the plight of the doomed optimist.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, let's not change it. Let's progress with the idea.

You are prepared to sit there and say that you are not sure if you will ever molest a child, why? Because you say "I don't know what the future holds.", is this true or not? If the answer is yes, as you have said it to be, then fine. YOU aren't sure of yourself, me? Regarding marriage, I am. I know for a fact it'll never happen. Are you prepared to tell me there is NOTHING that you would never ever do? I call bs on that, quite frankly. Then again, you say nothing is impossible, which is factually incorrect.

I'm telling you I'll never get married, that's a fact. As for marriage being illogical, I've proven it. Nobody has proven otherwise.

No, that's where you misunderstand. If you say you won't ever be one, I'm not going to sit here and say "You never know.". Whether or not you DO become one isn't my concern, I don't know any better than you. You know your feelings better than me, I know mine better than you. So I can't tell you any different, and you can't do the same for me.

Your problem is that you are far too non-committal to concrete areas. You think nothing is impossible, the plight of the doomed optimist.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i am sure of myself in my present state of mind. but who knows? i might be a schizo idiot ten years from now. same could happen to you. also, you are totally allowed to say "You never know" to someone when they say "this'll never happen to me." how do you know what will happen to you? people go through life changing events all the time, man. it doesnt matter how sure you are of yourself and/or your convictions. your entire outlook on life could change in a heartbeat. can you honestly tell me that your way of thinking will never change?

Precisely. You are forcing your blinkered view of personal choice upon me, whom it does not apply to. You won't say anything for sure because you aren't sure. I am. You not being sure doesn't mean I am not.

I don't know what will happen to me, I'm not an oracle, but I am telling you that I will never marry. I know this because it's under my control. I can't say "I won't get hit by a bus.". I don't know that. All I can do is make sure I don't. I can say I won't ever marry because I know I won't.

All of this time and you end with the same question to which I give the same answer: Regarding marriage, no, my thinking will never change. Accept this and move on.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're not saying anything different. The act may, vicariously cause a greater love, the idea of it, but the actual act itself does not/cannot provide love. It's just a contract.

If you weren't in love and you got married, it wouldn't magically make you fall in love. It might have the placebo effect, but that's all.

How can you say that as a irrevocable definite? Granted, I agree that if you aren't in love to begin with, a marriage in of itself isn't going to make love appear just because two people said "I do". But if two people are in love and the [if] marriage serves as a physical/tangible expression of love, how can you say "it isn't about love"?

I don't see how you can be so 'cut & dry' about labeling something you've never experienced. I wholeheartedly see that you personally do not agree that marriage and love have anything to do with each other, those are your feelings and I can't judge your feelings; but how can you tell others what they're feeling when only "you" truly know what you feel?

One day, people will understand that the purpose of a messageboard is to read the messages. One day.

Originally posted by Robtard
How can you say that as a irrevocable definite? Granted, I agree that if you aren't in love to begin with, a marriage in of itself isn't going to make love appear just because two people said "I do". But if two people are in love and the [if] marriage serves as a physical/tangible expression of love, how can you say "it isn't about love"?

I don't know, how can I say it isn't about love? I've never said it wasn't ABOUT love, I've said the two aren't inherently connected, people just happen to connect them. The fact that marriage was invented, and love predates it, proves such. The fact that unmarried couples can live extremely happily proves it too.

I never said it can't be about love for the people, or that love isn't a reason to THEM, just that it's not a logical reason, and that love/marriage aren't inherently connected just because people connect the two.

Originally posted by Robtard
I don't see how you can be so 'cut & dry' about labeling something you've never experienced. I wholeheartedly see that you personally do not agree that marriage and love have anything to do with each other, those are your feelings and I can't judge your feelings; but how can you tell others what they're feeling when only "you" truly know what you feel?

I'm not telling others what they are feeling, I've said this many times now, try reading what I say.

Marriage will always be associated with love...ASSOCIATED WITH. That does not mean the two have an actual link just because people like linking them. They do not. Ergo, someone saying they are getting married for love is fine, but it is illogical as there is no link between the two to suggest that one creates the other. Marriage does not create love, love on its own does not need marriage. So therefore, getting married FOR love is illogical, and getting married BECAUSE of love is illogical. The former being illogical because marriage does not create love, the latter being illogical because marriage isn't necessary for love.

Neither are wrong, both are illogical.

If you wish to connect the two, do so, free world and all that. Just don't act like there is something there that isn't.

It's really simple. Really, it is.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Precisely. You are forcing your blinkered view of personal choice upon me, whom it does not apply to. You won't say anything for sure because you aren't sure. I am. You not being sure doesn't mean I am not.

I don't know what will happen to me, I'm not an oracle, but I am telling you that I will never marry. I know this because it's under my control. I can't say "I won't get hit by a bus.". I don't know that. All I can do is make sure I don't. I can say I won't ever marry because I know I won't.

All of this time and you end with the same question to which I give the same answer: Regarding marriage, no, my thinking will never change. Accept this and move on.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
One day, people will understand that the purpose of a messageboard is to read the messages. One day.

I don't know, how can I say it isn't about love? [B]I've never said it wasn't ABOUT love , I've said the two aren't inherently connected, people just happen to connect them. The fact that marriage was invented, and love predates it, proves such. The fact that unmarried couples can live extremely happily proves it too.

I never said it can't be about love for the people, or that love isn't a reason to THEM, just that it's not a logical reason, and that love/marriage aren't inherently connected just because people connect the two.

I'm not telling others what they are feeling, I've said this many times now, try reading what I say.

Marriage will always be associated with love...ASSOCIATED WITH. That does not mean the two have an actual link just because people like linking them. They do not. Ergo, someone saying they are getting married for love is fine, but it is illogical as there is no link between the two to suggest that one creates the other. Marriage does not create love, love on its own does not need marriage. So therefore, getting married FOR love is illogical, and getting married BECAUSE of love is illogical. The former being illogical because marriage does not create love, the latter being illogical because marriage isn't necessary for love.

Neither are wrong, both are illogical.

If you wish to connect the two, do so, free world and all that. Just don't act like there is something there that isn't.

It's really simple. Really, it is.

-AC [/B]

Excuse me, but I've read every word you've typed and a few pages back when the debate started between the two of us you had said as fact:

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Either way, it [marriage] has nothing to do with love.

-AC

I agree that marriage and love aren't exclusive or "inherently connected", that isn't the issue as people get married for a wide variety of different reasons as I previously stated and love can be one of those reasons.

And as I've said, if you believe love is illogical as it pertains to marriage I cannot argue against that, as those are YOUR feelings and I can't tell you how you personally feel. But saying marrying someone because you love them is illogical for everyone is simple illogical in itself.