Exae Kun vs Darh Nilihus

Originally posted by zephiel7
Whether or not they are exactly similar, is not what I am concerned with, per se. The effect of Bane's "wave of force energy" was IMO greater, as it had a far larger area of effect, and the results were more catastrophic. It was stated to be able to change Kas’im body into a “mass of pulpy liquid,” which is undoubtedly similar to what Exar was capable of doing.

Just a thing to add, whether or not they were different, it is still evident that they could both be blocked, since the general pattern in Star Wars is that offensive techniques can be blocked. To presume otherwise without it being explicitly stated would be making an assumption which is inconsistent with the whole of Star Wars mythos with regards to force attacks and defenses.

Insomuch as the blast was capable of reducing someone to a “mass of pulpy liquid,” I hardly think that it is similar to a regular force wave. A regular wave pushes things back; it doesn’t have the effect of “crushing from all angles,” like Bane’s “wave of force energy.”

To be fair, the attack was more devastating than Kun’s. Whereas Kun was able to destroy parts of the temple with several blasts, Bane was able to demolish the pride of the Rakatans with one blast. Also noting how Kas’im was able to block something that large makes me confident that Nihilus can also block Kun.

Regardless, that he cannot be sensed in the force or exists independently of it seems to give him an even greater advantage. His nature renders all of Exar’s “precognitive” abilities useless, as Nihilus cannot be sensed. Moreover, being an area where no force exists is devastating to Kun. How do you assume that any of Kun’s techniques will work against Nihilus, seeing the effects when the Jedi could not “see” the Vong through the force?

I suggest you reread my post.
“with someone who was believed to be (but not really) stronger than Luke himself.”

I never said that Kyp has more force potential. I stated that he was believed by Luke to have a greater potential in the force. The fact that it was close to that of Luke’s means that it is undeniably great. Combined with Kun’s force energy and I can see how Luke would have easily been taken down.

Palpatine draining Byss was clearly not what Nihilus did to Kataar. With Nihilus the effects were seen as instantaneous, while Palpatine’s drain was taking a while. Ergo, I would like you to prove that whatever conventional drains were known by Kun would be identical to the unique one possessed by Nihilus, which was instaneous and far more devastating. Especially given such a variant of the drain was available only in Malachor, I would be hard pressed to believe that Kun had any knowledge of the said technique.

There is proof that the majority of what remained was in Kataar. That certainly is no miniscule amount, as in KOTOR there were enough Jedi to send on missions (protecting the transport ship carrying Bastila,) fighting Malak's troops on the Star Forge, the academies on Dantooine that were evacuated, the academies on Coruscant etc., Seeing how Nihilus could sense them through the force, indicates there signature must obviously have been large enough. [/B]

Zephiel, as to what DS said bane was only lucky that kasim was under the temple that he was able to kill him. Had the temple not been there, kasim would have shielded the blast until banes energy gets drained and thus proceed to kill him.

One thing to note, kuns blast power magnitude is well over banes as what the comics described "doubles with every pulse of anger" which significantly means the more angry he gets, the bigger and more powerful the blast will become. When have we actually seen kun using the amulet to its greatest? As advent pointed out a year ago, there was no big threat enough to use it on

First off, you can address me first since my post was as identical to ACs and I posted first. Secondly, you were indeed concerned with Bane's alleged blast, since you went into great detail and used that as the focal part of your argument. You can call his force wave greater, but that would be fallacious considering there was a temple that made the feat seem a lot more powerful than it was. Kun's amulet blast destroys anything in its path.

First off, AC put the point a bit more concisely, so I found it easier to respond to him. Secondly, you were saying that because Kun was
able to destroy an ancient sith wyrm, a couple of Masassi, and a portion of the temple, then the amulet blasts are infallible against force users and stronger than Bane’s own blast? Pardon me for saying this, but that’s a horrid conclusion. The thing is, Bane’s attack was tested against a force user, but Exar’s attack was not. I want proof that Exar can pierce through Nihilus’ force shield in one go, because that is what it seems you are implying.

No, it's not evident because while a force wave is an upgraded version of a force push, the amulet blast is a huge energy beam that grows in size, is instantaneous, and virtually has no limit seeing as how it increases the user's rage exponentially, which in turn increases the amulet beam.

You’re missing the point, apparently. The point was,initially, Bane’s blast of energy was greater than the blast of energy that Kun unleashed. I question (as it begs proof) that Kun can achieve a magnitude in his force blasts that rivals Bane’s. If Exar Kun's amulet blasts were so infallible, he could have used his amulet blasts to augment his rage sufficiently enough so that he could punch out the Republic fleets that were coming towards him.

If it happens to be possible, it will take time for Kun’s anger to be large enough, to grow to a size so as to threaten Nihilus. Time that, apparently, he will not have against a technique that is “undefendable” and “cannot be learned.”

The fact that Bane’s blast was capable of leveling the entire temple in its initial stages far outdoes what Kun did. Even with his rage multiplied by the said amulets, he managed to only destroy some primitives, portions of the temple wall, and a portion of a Sith wyrm.

What more, how do you come to the ridiculous conclusion that Kun will be able to blast continuously with no signs of fatigue, when Nihilus is blocking them and retaliating with his own drain, a technique that is cited as being “undefendable” (except through separation of oneself from the force, of course), “born of malachor”, and “unable to be learned.”

Except you don't know what the hell a regular force wave is

I understand perfectly enough, it’s damn obvious given it was stated multiple times and it’s effects seen in the Star Wars mythos. A force wave or a force push is meant do exactly what it suggests. If you’ve read PoD Bane’s blast was not the conventional wave demonstrated by Traya, Obi Wan, Qui Gon (when they sent multiple droids flying), or even the one used by Yoda in the clone wars comics. It was stated as being able to reduce the victim to pulpy liquid, whereas a force wave was only able to send a victim flying backwards at high velocities. Argue with narration of PoD, DS, not me.

"A regular wave" my ass. Think what happens after a nuclear bomb goes off. In fact watch T2: Judgement Day, and see what happens to everything after a nuclear bomb goes off.

What the hell are you talking about, DS?

It was not more devastating than Kun's just because there happened to be a building in the way. Oh wait, a 30,000 year old building.

Apparently, age had no effect on the stability of the structure, as the author stated “The stone was neither worn nor cracked despite its age.” So if you were implying that age of the structure had some reason with why it broke, you would be wrong.

Kas'im blocked the wave with a force shield. Somehow I highly doubt a force shield is more powerful than a Massassi structure, but that's just me.

Well it is, so you are going to have to accept that. DK stated that Kas’im managed to defend against the an attack that would have turned him into “pulpy liquid” and which was able to break through far more rock and mortar (tons) than Kun’s own initial attack. It’s pretty dumb to assume that Exar’s amulets will initially be able to pierce through a shield that is going to be even greater than the one used by Kas’im.

Good god Zephiel, this is a one on one match. Meaning he's going to VISUALLY see Nihilus. Meaning he CAN POINT THE AMULET TOWARDS THE DIRECTION OF NIHILUS,

You misinterpret. I was implying if they ever were to engage in a lightsaber duel, Kun is suddenly in a big disadvantage, as precognition is one of the biggest advantages a Jedi/Sith has in their battles.

On a different note, conventional force techniques were said to “bend away” from the Vong, because they could not be "seen" or "sensed" with the force, much like how Nihilus is described. It begs proof, then, whether Nihilus can be affected by conventional force attacks at all.

No, you said Kyp's potential was described as more powerful than Luke's, while I said it was Luke's own opinion that Kyp COULD be more powerful than himself.

Oh my word. I’m not about to argue with you on what I put down, Sexy, especially when it is ridiculously blatant.

“with someone who was believed to be (but not really) stronger than Luke himself.”

Hint: “but not really”

Luke could sense enough of a force connection in Kyp that he felt it could be greater than his. So despite being not equal to Luke’s it was close or definitely high up there. I would trust Luke’s feelings on Kyp, as apparently, he is a better judge on the matter than you.
My point? I would say ‘yes’, it’s pretty damn clear that Kyp and Exar combined would have been able to outdo Luke at that point.

When was Nihilus' blast considered instantaneous? Are you a physicist? How are you an authority on what is instantaneous when there is not one shred of proof for that assumption?

Oh my…have you seen when Nihilus used his drain on board the Ravager? You don’t have to be a genius to tell that it is instantaneous when he lifts up his hand and in less than a second later an attack comes out. Not to mention in Unheard-Unseen it shows him above Kataar in one instant and immediately after a cloud was covering the entire planet.

I don’t have to be a physicist to use common sense, incidentally, which is what is needed for these types of observations.

As for the amount of Jedi on Kataar, I never stated that it was a significant amount. However, there were Jedi, and they were destroyed. I am not supplying numbers as to whether it was 10 or a 100, but neither can you. I don’t see the point arguing, anyways.

Sexy, Kun's amulet blasts only made holes through the Massasi Temples, if they were as powerful as Bane's wave of energy, the sheer impact would have produced far greater damage.

And yeah, wasn't force lightning said to just bend away from the Vong. The amulet blasts are inherently force based, and Nihilus shares the same characteristics of the Vong, so why would there be anything different occurring here? There's also the fact that Nihilus' TK abilities are shown to be far greater than the destructive capabilities of the amulet blasts, so I don't see why he won't simply b able to use his insane TK abilities to push the blasts back at Kun.

Since when does Nihilus share the Vong's other force level? Nihilus is a wound in the force, but that doesn't mean he is on another level like the Vong, force powers can still hit him...

Originally posted by allfg
Sexy, Kun's amulet blasts only made holes through the Massasi Temples, if they were as powerful as Bane's wave of energy, the sheer impact would have produced far greater damage.

Originally posted by allfg
[B
And yeah, wasn't force lightning said to just bend away from the Vong. The amulet blasts are inherently force based, and Nihilus shares the same characteristics of the Vong, so why would there be anything different occurring here? There's also the fact that Nihilus' TK abilities are shown to be far greater than the destructive capabilities of the amulet blasts, so I don't see why he won't simply b able to use his insane TK abilities to push the blasts back at Kun. [/B]

And please prove that nihilus can redirect the blast because as far as canon goes, it cant unless you want to prove it can which by the way you cannot and will not

EDIT

Originally posted by zephiel7
First off, AC put the point a bit more concisely, so I found it easier to respond to him. Secondly, you were saying that because Kun was
able to destroy an ancient sith wyrm, a couple of Masassi, and a portion of the temple, then the amulet blasts are infallible against force users and stronger than Bane’s own blast? Pardon me for saying this, but that’s a horrid conclusion. The thing is, Bane’s attack was tested against a force user, but Exar’s attack was not. I want proof that Exar can pierce through Nihilus’ force shield in one go, because that is what it seems you are implying.

You’re missing the point, apparently. The point was,initially, Bane’s blast of energy was greater than the blast of energy that Kun unleashed. I question (as it begs proof) that Kun can achieve a magnitude in his force blasts that rivals Bane’s. If Exar Kun's amulet blasts were so infallible, he could have used his amulet blasts to augment his rage sufficiently enough so that he could punch out the Republic fleets that were coming towards him.

If it happens to be possible, it will take time for Kun’s anger to be large enough, to grow to a size so as to threaten Nihilus. Time that, apparently, he will not have against a technique that is “undefendable” and “cannot be learned.”

The fact that Bane’s blast was capable of leveling the entire temple in its initial stages far outdoes what Kun did. Even with his rage multiplied by the said amulets, he managed to only destroy some primitives, portions of the temple wall, and a portion of a Sith wyrm.

What more, how do you come to the ridiculous conclusion that Kun will be able to blast continuously with no signs of fatigue, when Nihilus is blocking them and retaliating with his own drain, a technique that is cited as being “undefendable” (except through separation of oneself from the force, of course), “born of malachor”, and “unable to be learned.”

I understand perfectly enough, it’s damn obvious given it was stated multiple times and it’s effects seen in the Star Wars mythos. A force wave or a force push is meant do exactly what it suggests. If you’ve read PoD Bane’s blast was not the conventional wave demonstrated by Traya, Obi Wan, Qui Gon (when they sent multiple droids flying), or even the one used by Yoda in the clone wars comics. It was stated as being able to reduce the victim to pulpy liquid, whereas a force wave was only able to send a victim flying backwards at high velocities. Argue with narration of PoD, DS, not me.

Apparently, age had no effect on the stability of the structure, as the author stated “The stone was neither worn nor cracked despite its age.” So if you were implying that age of the structure had some reason with why it broke, you would be wrong.

Well it is, so you are going to have to accept that. DK stated that Kas’im managed to defend against the an attack that would have turned him into “pulpy liquid” and which was able to break through far more rock and mortar (tons) than Kun’s own initial attack. It’s pretty dumb to assume that Exar’s amulets will initially be able to pierce through a shield that is going to be even greater than the one used by Kas’im.

You misinterpret. I was implying if they ever were to engage in a lightsaber duel, Kun is suddenly in a big disadvantage, as precognition is one of the biggest advantages a Jedi/Sith has in their battles.

On a different note, conventional force techniques were said to “bend away” from the Vong, because they could not be "seen" or "sensed" with the force, much like how Nihilus is described. It begs proof, then, whether Nihilus can be affected by conventional force attacks at all.

Oh my word. I’m not about to argue with you on what I put down, Sexy, especially when it is ridiculously blatant.

“with someone who was believed to be (but not really) stronger than Luke himself.”

Hint: “but not really”

Luke could sense enough of a force connection in Kyp that he felt it could be greater than his. So despite being not equal to Luke’s it was close or definitely high up there. I would trust Luke’s feelings on Kyp, as apparently, he is a better judge on the matter than you.
My point? I would say ‘yes’, it’s pretty damn clear that Kyp and Exar combined would have been able to outdo Luke at that point.

Oh my…have you seen when Nihilus used his drain on board the Ravager? You don’t have to be a genius to tell that it is instantaneous when he lifts up his hand and in less than a second later an attack comes out. Not to mention in Unheard-Unseen it shows him above Kataar in one instant and immediately after a cloud was covering the entire planet.

I don’t have to be a physicist to use common sense, incidentally, which is what is needed for these types of observations.

As for the amount of Jedi on Kataar, I never stated that it was a significant amount. However, there were Jedi, and they were destroyed. I am not supplying numbers as to whether it was 10 or a 100, but neither can you. I don’t see the point arguing, anyways. [/B]

Originally posted by Kamikz
Since when does Nihilus share the Vong's other force level? Nihilus is a wound in the force, but that doesn't mean he is on another level like the Vong, force powers can still hit him...

No, force powers cannot hit him, and have never been shown to. If it happened in gameplay, then it's not canon. Ask yourself Kamikz, why is it that the Vong can't be affected by the force? I'll answer it for you: it's because they have no presence in the force. The same goes for Nihilus.

Originally posted by Kadesh
[B]Banes wave energy is as what sexy said a normal force wave which has the power to break bones in peoples body. On the other had kuns blast is able to disintegrate anything in its path, in other words its far more powerful than banes force wave

Where's it said that the amulet blasts disintegrated anything? And even then, while you're right about disintegration alone being more powerful than simply breaking something, when you consider that Kun's attack only made small holes in the temple wall, whereas Bane's collapsed the entire fricking temple, and thus had a much larger effect when taking volume into respect, Bane's attack is indeed much more powerful.

No, nihilus is a wound in the force, vongs have no connection completely and force attacks do work against "wounds" as it worked on the exile.

The Exile wasn't a complete wound, as he had been slowly regaining a presence in the force since the start of KotOR 2, and that's why he was able to be affected by force attacks. Nihilus however, was a complete wound in the force, has no force presence, and is immune to force attacks.

And please prove that nihilus can redirect the blast because as far as canon goes, it cant unless you want to prove it can which by the way you cannot and will not

Ok, I'm not going to pretend I can 100% undeniably prove that Nihilus can defend against them, because I can't, nobody can otherwise, and the majority of crap on this forum hasn't exactly been 100% proven anyways. However, when considering that Nihilus' TK abilities have been shown to be far more powerful than the destructive capabilities of Exar's amulet blasts, and logic points to him being overall stronger in the force, I'd say the most likely route to take is that Nihilus would simply be able to push the blasts back at Exar. I'd also say that it's very likely that he could simply just conjure up a force shield and defend against it through those means. There's also the fact that the amulet blasts are inherently force based, and Nihilus is immune to force powers, so it's likely they would just arch away from nihilus like force lightning does the Vong.

I didn't say because X, Y, and Z, Kun's blasts are unblockable. They are unblockable because there's no proof that they can be blocked, not by a lightsaber, not by a force user. Not to mention they grow in size that exceeds that of a normal person, so please provide me some evidence of an instant, limitless, energy beam being blocked.

There is no proof that these blasts can pass through a force shield either, so if you are saying that they can I want some type of pattern established from which you can make such a deduction. It’s pretty obvious they can be blocked given the idea that any attack, unless explicitly stated otherwise, can be blocked. To say otherwise would be contrary to the general trend in the Star Wars mythos, which is none too logical.

The thing with Bane's force wave though, is it has limits. Kun's amulet blasts don't.

I want proof that Kun’s blasts can even grow to the great heights of magnitude that you are getting excited over. If they could, why didn’t Exar use his rage to augment his blasts to the size and magnitude that they can take down the Republic fleet traveling towards Dxun?

And you make a piss poor arguing stating that attack X was made by a force user ergo attack Y cannot be used against a force user because it was never done so.

Huh? I never said anything like that. I certainly agree that attack Y (Kun’s blasts) can be used against a force user. But the fact the attack Y can be used against a force user and break through any barrier is a ridiculous assumption, especially in the context of how force attacks and defenses work. A blast of pure energy is seen in lightning, the wave of energy Bane was narrated as using, and they were both capable of being blocked.

Bane used a normal force attack on a force user, wow. I guess then Obiwan's force push>Exar Kun's amulet beams. Can you quantify the strength of Nihilus' force shield? In fact, can you even MAKE an argument that his force shield is stronger than a Massassi temple or a gigantic sith wyrm, because I submit you cannot. And again, Kun's blasts are instant and limitless.

It wasn’t a regular force wave. A regular force wave pushes back DS, realize that. This thing caused “solid rock” to “burst into pieces” where it stood.

As for whether a force shield is stronger than Massassi temple or not, I have proof. “ The concussive blast had enough power to shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid. But at the last possible instant, he threw up a shield to protect himself from the attack. Unfortunately, he couldn't shield the Temple around him. The walls exploded into pieces.

So clearly, Kas’im was capable of defending himself from attack that did explode solid rock into rubble. The fact that Kas’im could defend against an attack that literally exploded the infrastructure of the Great Rakatan temple is proof that a force shield can defend against these amulet blasts known to destroy parts of the temple.

No, apparently you're missing the point because you're comparing apples and oranges and using your ridiculous fanboyism to argue subjectively.

Nothing begs proof here because you're again, arguing a force wave over an energy beam that has no limits.

And whats this about him destroying republic ships? What's he going to do, shoot his amulet blast into space? Have you even bothered to take physics?

You're not an authority on Kun's anger.

Kun's blasts were instants while Nihilus' drain is debatable.

Furthermore, the technique obviously can be learned since it was created by the ancient sith, and since Sidious knew that technique, or something similar.

Bane's force wave leveled a 30,000 year old temple. Now you're playing feat wars. I can just as easily say Kun's stasis field completely trumps anything Bane has done and shows Kun's force abilities and potential to be beyond Bane. And now you're just being ignorant, considering Kun used the blasts only when he had to.

GEe, because Amulet blasts amplify the magnitude of someone's force abilities, so your logic about him being fatigued is ridiculous.

Furthermore you make yet another ridiculous statement saying Nihilus is going to block anything. Nihilus hasn't shown anything that would make him a POWERFUL force user other than the force drain.

A force wave is exactly what it was.,

Obiwan never showed a force wave, neither did Qui Gon

Traya's force wave was gameplay mechanics.

A force wave is just that, a high speed wave sent at you, like a hurricane or what not.

Please show me the page number to this? Does a 30,000 year old stone need to be cracked or worn to fall against a very fast wind?

That's assuming Nihilus even knows how to use a blade.

Which any Sith and Jedi would be able to do, especially one with such force strength as Nihilus. Force strength correlates strongly with saber ability (enhancing precognition, reflexes, speed), so being able to precognate movements gives him an undeniable advantage.

Except the amulet blast itself isn't a force attack, it's an energy beam.

I COULD go back and quote everything you said concerning this but I don't want to make a fool out of you anymore.

I would trust Luke's feelings as well, by his peak, when he knows wtf he's talking about. I don't consider him 100% credible by the Jedi Academy Trilogy. Furthermore, his feelings were obviously incorrect as Kyp isn't on par with Luke.

That's conclusive? lol.

But you aren't using common sense, which is why I asked if you were a physicist.

Because we know full well it wasn't 100, or even 95. Because it could have been 2 or 3 or 5, so it's not even a part of this debate.

Depends on the size of the overall order before the civil war. If it was in the 5000’s or so, I would say 90 Jedi on Kataar is piss poor in numbers. Around 1.8%. Nada.

Allfg, if Nihilus was immune to force powers, why would it be such a pain to just make him immune to it in gameplay?

And you're wrong. The Exile was a wound to, but don't you remember when all the dark jedi used force lightning around her to knock her out. It was when you were on Nar Shaada, and when you were brought up on the ship...

Also, Nihilus uses force stasis on the Exile, that works on him to. The Exile and Nihilus are the exact same case, so no, Nihilus is NOT immune to the force.

Allfg, if Nihilus was immune to force powers, why would it be such a pain to just make him immune to it in gameplay?

People who made the game are morons? They weren't aware of the fact that not being as part of the force makes you immune to it? I wouldn't usually use out of story explanations, but seeing as we're discussing something which is N Canon anyway (gameplay), why not?

And you're wrong. The Exile was a wound to, but don't you remember when all the dark jedi used force lightning around her to knock her out. It was when you were on Nar Shaada, and when you were brought up on the ship...

Also, Nihilus uses force stasis on the Exile, that works on him to. The Exile and Nihilus are the exact same case, so no, Nihilus is NOT immune to the force.

I've already dealt with this point. The Exile wasn't a complete wound like Nihilus was, only partially, and he had been regaining his force presence ever since the start of KotOR2. So while he was partially a wound in the force, he also had a presence in the force, and thus could be affected by force powers. Nihilus is a complete wound.

As I've argued before, there is no indication that the Emperor wanted to drain Byss completely and in one fell swoop, since he used it to house his dark side experiments as well as replenish his life force due to the toll the dark side was taking on his body. To drain the entire thing would be completely counterproductive to his goals, wouldn't you agree?

Wasn't a complete wound? Since when? Where does it say that?
And I don't remember where it says Nihilus is one. (Can you remind me)

I don't know where you got the "not a whole", cause if you are not a part of the force, you cannot use the force, both Nihilus and Exile can. Please state where it says he is not a complete wound, and where it says Nihilus is one. From what I remember, the Exile was draining his enemies when he killed them, thus that is how he grew stronger in the force, same as Nihilus except that he used a technique....

Wasn't a complete wound? Since when? Where does it say that?
And I don't remember where it says Nihilus is one. (Can you remind me)

It's all made clear in KotOR2. The Exile only started regaining hr presence in the force since the start of KotOR 2, due to her link with Traya.

Nihilus is only ever stated to be a wound in the force, and The Exile only regained her force presence due to her link with Traya. Nihilus had no such link.

I don't know where you got the "not a whole", cause if you are not a part of the force, you cannot use the force, both Nihilus and Exile can.

Unsupported.

From what I remember, the Exile was draining his enemies, thus that is how he grew stronger in the force, same as Nihilus except that he used a technique....

They both had a very similar condition, just not the same one.

If you do not exist in the force, how can you use the force?

It is unsupported as well to make the guess that Nihilus cannot be hurt by force powers. There is nothing ever stating such a thing, and the only thing keeping it going is that the Exile was regaining her force connection (as an excuse to why Nihilus wouldn't be)

Anway, here's what I got...

The Exile stopped using the force. Then when she met Kreia, she started using it again, thus she "regained her force connection".
But Nihilus in game can also use the force. The thing supporting that the Exile regained her force connection is that she is actually able to use it, and grows more powerful, nothing else. But Nihilus has ALWAYS used the force, because he never exiled himself from it. So why would Nihilus not be a part of the force as the Exile is, when clearly both use the force?

If you do not exist in the force, how can you use the force?

Being part of the force doesn't tie in with force use. Not to mention that Nihilus' nature is extremely mysterious and obscure.

It is unsupported as well to make the guess that Nihilus cannot be hurt by force powers.

No it's not. It's 100% supported. There's no force presence within Nihilus, thus he cannot be sensed, thus he cannot be directly attacked with the force.

There is nothing ever stating such a thing

It doesn't need to be stated, the fact is, he shares the same Vong characteristics, and thus would share the same virtual immunity against the force that they do.

, and the only thing keeping it going is that the Exile was regaining her force connection (as an excuse to why Nihilus wouldn't be)

And? So what? You're acting as if my 'excuse' isn't a valid one. The fact is, The Exile's nature slightly differs from Nihilus', so just because she can be directly attacked with the force, that doesn't mean that Nihilus also can be. Really, what's your point, exactly?

The Exile stopped using the force. Then when she met Kreia, she started using it again, thus she "regained her force connection".
But Nihilus in game can also use the force. The thing supporting that the Exile regained her force connection is that she is actually able to use it, and grows more powerful, nothing else.

Actually, she's noted (by The Masters) as feeling slightly different than she did when they first exiled her. That's what supports her regaining her force presence, not what you mentioned.

But Nihilus has ALWAYS used the force, because he never exiled himself from it. So why would Nihilus not be a part of the force as the Exile is, when clearly both use the force?

1. Nihilus is basically an anomaly, and his nature is too mysterious to simply be fully explained.

2. Force presence and force use are not related.

Originally posted by allfg
Being part of the force doesn't tie in with force use. Not to mention that Nihilus' nature is extremely mysterious and obscure.

No it's not. It's 100% supported. There's no force presence within Nihilus, thus he cannot be sensed, thus he cannot be directly attacked with the force.

It doesn't need to be stated, the fact is, he shares the same Vong characteristics, and thus would share the same virtual immunity against the force that they do.

And? So what? You're acting as if my 'excuse' isn't a valid one. The fact is, The Exile's nature slightly differs from Nihilus', so just because she can be directly attacked with the force, that doesn't mean that Nihilus also can be. Really, what's your point, exactly?

Actually, she's noted (by The Masters) as feeling slightly different than she did when they first exiled her. That's what supports her regaining her force presence, not what you mentioned.

1. Nihilus is basically an anomaly, and his nature is too mysterious to simply be fully explained.

2. Force presence and force use are not related.

Wtf? How can you not be a part of the force, and use the force? That's like Han Solo using sith lightning.......

It never says anything that Nihilus does not exist in the force, only that he is a wound in the force. Blah, eh, whatever, we're just repeating the whole freaking thing. Anyway, MY opinion on this is that since Nihilus never exiled himself nor stopped using the force, he didn't need to "regain" his force connection, he already had it. The Exile regaining it is just what Nihilus already has. That is how I see it, you see it different? Fine........

(I hate being stuck in debates before I'm going to sleep 😛)

Wtf? How can you not be a part of the force, and use the force? That's like Han Solo using sith lightning.......

You're confusing force sensitivity and force connection. I'll give you an example of how someone without a force presence can use the force: Luke Skywalker. He can remove himself into and out of the force at will, and can use the force in either state.

It never says anything that Nihilus does not exist in the force, only that he is a wound in the force. Blah, eh, whatever, we're just repeating the whole freaking thing.

It's stated that he's a wound in the force, and then it's further explained what being a wound in the force is; it's an area where no force exists.

Anyway, MY opinion on this is that since Nihilus never exiled himself nor stopped using the force, he didn't need to "regain" his force connection, he already had it. The Exile regaining it is just what Nihilus already has. That is how I see it, you see it different? Fine........

Play the game again, Nihilus' nature is a complete anomaly, it's not that simple.