Originally posted by Soljer
Cap can beat either Elektra or Daredevil for a majority...however...he can't do it before T'Challa gets beaten by the other one.And Cap certainly can't take on BOTH Daredevil AND Elektra and come out on top.
I'll give this to Elektra/Daredevil for a majority.
Ok right.....so you have seen Apolloknights Bp scans right?
Originally posted by Soljer
Cap can beat either Elektra or Daredevil for a majority...however...he can't do it before T'Challa gets beaten by the other one.And Cap certainly can't take on BOTH Daredevil AND Elektra and come out on top.
I'll give this to Elektra/Daredevil for a majority.
I think you're underestimating Black Panther here. He could definitely hold his own against DD or Elecktra.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes but Cap holds back on regular folks. He had no idea this was DD.Yes he saw a figure in the shadows doesn't mean Cap could see well or the persons well. Since it was as you say in the shadows.
Point is Cap was handicapped in that fight. And is not a clean win.
Cap like all other heroes hold back. He had no idea it was DD, but that doesnt mean he held back even extra.
After seeing Beast layed out, he saw the figure and threw the shield. It was obviously to take down the intruder. Cap saw the figure well, just not the face or costume.
Cap wasnt handicapped at all in that fight. He knew there was in intruder. He saw that the intruder creamed Beast. The threw his shield hoping to knock the intruder out. Then when that didnt work and Herc got taken down, he decided to jump at the intruder. I wouldnt say Cap was handicapped at all there. He knew what he was doing.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I would actually give DD the slight majority over Cap.
How????
Originally posted by jrodslam
Cap like all other heroes hold back. He had no idea it was DD, but that doesnt mean he held back even extra.After seeing Beast layed out, he saw the figure and threw the shield. It was obviously to take down the intruder. Cap saw the figure well, just not the face or costume.
Cap wasnt handicapped at all in that fight. He knew there was in intruder. He saw that the intruder creamed Beast. The threw his shield hoping to knock the intruder out. Then when that didnt work and Herc got taken down, he decided to jump at the intruder. I wouldnt say Cap was handicapped at all there. He knew what he was doing.
What are we talking about this old old old school event? How the **** does DD get to take out Hercules?
Originally posted by Soljer
I've read T'Challa's entire respect thread. Multiple times. And I own several Black Panther comics, both during Priest's and Hudlin's run.I've seen it.
Cap > Daredevil = Elektra > T'Challa.
Well ok if hes been able to outspeed Wolverine twice how is Elecktra going to beat BP, when Wolverine is better than Elecktra?
Originally posted by Soljer
I've read T'Challa's entire respect thread. Multiple times. And I own several Black Panther comics, both during Priest's and Hudlin's run.I've seen it.
Cap > Daredevil = Elektra > T'Challa.
ok, so we know BP can hang with Cap and even take him out sometimes, and that he is faster and maybe more skilled than wolverine and as agile as beast.
What makes you think DD or Elektra can take him out?
Originally posted by Alfheim
How????
Because while Cap is the better fighter of the two, I believe DD to be slightly more refined in his skill. Add to that his radar sense, superior agility and reflexes, I think he can beat Cap for the majority.
Originally posted by masterbruce
so your hierarchy is:BP > DD > Cap > Elektra?
No, not exactly. Thing is, it's incredibly difficult to rank them in such a way like that. For example, while I think Cap and BP are essentially equal, I believe DD can take Cap but not BP. It's all about their specific power sets and abilities.
It's not like BP is any kind of slouch in the fighting department either. Hell, all of his bios state (and I think I may have seen this in a comic once, too, but I can't remember which comic) that he's a MASTER of all unarmed combat and a master of MOST armed combat.
Doesn't that sound a lot like our Captain America? 😬
Originally posted by Apolloknight
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz19.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz20.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz21.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/Black%20Panther24/blz22.jpgCap Cheap shotted T'challa, in the next scnas the fight continues the next day, it also shows off T'challs new light armor, he used it to go Toe to Toe with doom and also Iron man in recent Issues. Could DD go toe to Toe with Iron man and Doom!?
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/08.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/09.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r56/Cypher69/BP24/10.jpg
I first set of scans didnt really need to be posted. They arent saying much, so no comment on those. As for the second set, you and BP already mentioned how Capwas still wounded from the CW battle. Thus the scan is inconclusive and doesnt support your arguement. Cap also mentioned had it been a REAL fight......
Now as far as DD fighting Doom, yea he has. He lost, but he was weakened from a previous ballte before that, so its inconclusive as well. He did outsmart Doom though. I dont think hes ever tussled with iron Man. He has tussled and held his own with Namor, Thor, Thing and a Asguardian warrior. Hulk too for a while. Hes also beat his fare share of powerhouses as well. ABC logic is pretty irrelevant here. Regardless of who each have fought in the past, DD has layed BP out.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
BP is Superhuman when it comes to speed and agility, I dont know how many times I have to explain this to people, dont know if its lack of interests, BP hate, or just lack of common sense. But I'll do it one more time.DD, while an amazing athlete, is capable of doing many things, he has trained his body to the peak of his athletic ability, DD is a peak athlete. Remember he has to use his billy club to get around city's, BP doesn't, he jumps and crawls, runs up and down walls, just like spidy.
I guess you or whoever else can call it lack of common sense on my part, because nothing about Panthers speed and agility says Superhuman to me. Cap, DD, Panther, Wolvie, Fist, etc shows nothing in speed and agility that matches Spiderman. His is superhuman. Others listed are peak/enhanced as i see it.
DD may get around the city via using billy club, however he also gets around by running/jumping rooftops and swinging(hands only) or jumping on flagpoles. If DD has claws, im sure hed be able to run and climb on walls as well. He doesnt need it however.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
BP, Was already a peak athlete BEFORE he took the Heart shaped herb, he took down six of wakanda's best warriors and then took out his uncle who was BP at the time (remember his uncle had already taken the Heart shaped herb, he was superhuman already).This meant T'challa had to be very skilled, and he was, he had been training in combat since he was four years old, he had trained his body to the peak of Athletic limits, he was just as athletic as Batman, or DD.
Noone is saying Panther isnt skilled or even athletic. You mention he was just as athletic as Bats and DD before tasking the herb, yet now with it, he seems to be only on the same level as them. Nothing Panther does athletic wise puts him above DD in agility. At least nothing that ive seen thus far.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
Besides Wolveine, and maybe one of two others, BP has more combat experience and know how then any other martial artist out there, Cap doesn't count because he was frozen for god knows how many decades.
Having a bunch of combat experience is just that. Experiene. It doesnt mean hes a better fighter or more skilled than blah blah blah.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
2. It also heightened his agility and speed. The herb bonded with his ligaments in his joints giving he an unheard of degree of flexibility. This alone, is greater then anything any human could accomplish outside of Human Enhancement.http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supra24ho.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supra37la.jpgHe has superhuman Agility and speed. I think most would agree that Beast, is one of marvels top tier when it comes to agility, much like spidy, nightcrawler etc.....
Beast tells panther he is his equal
DD is pretty fast and agile himself.
Hes dodged lasers that have moved at the speed of thought. Thor and Spiderman has even commented on DD's speed/reflexes.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
Not many people can keep up with beast, but this does not mean you are his equal. BP is Beast Equal, not only that, BP beats beast in battle.
Panther now gets welcomed the the "Ive beat Beast in battle!" club.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
Panther speed is also greater then Wolverines, on two occasions, when panther wasn't even trying, wolverine cant help but notice how fast he is..http://img73.exs.cx/img73/8647/vswolv1.jpg
and again
Nice. Another club panther joins.
and again
Originally posted by Apolloknight
Phew, I think I made my point, add in BP TECH, his claws, his ability to one hit kill, is Vibranium suit, and you have quite a powerful warrior.Both BP and CAP are leagues above DD and Electra in terms of combat strategy and know how.
They take this fight, like it or not.
Everyone here has the ability to one hit kill. What is Panthers standard equipment? An also, like statd before, the suit can be worked around.
