Originally posted by garbocats
Sorry to butt in here, but referring back to the Jack/liz pictures. I can't see why this is viewed as especially romantic, because it's so PUBLIC! I mean Murtogg and Mullroy and Marty and Gibbs and some other guy are all earwigging.I hate to say it but I reckon this scene is a moment more of nastiness or betrayal between them, witnessed by all - although spiced up no doubt because of their mutual sexual tension.
Just an observation ....
good observation--- though that's a general rule between them. since the island scene in 1, they havent gotten "romantic alone time"... only "witty conversations on the deck of ships where everyone pretends to be working so they can eavesdrop." lol. its part of the magic. they have to say everything in code/ make everything into double entendres, they can't ever really say what they mean. in some ways, they are playing to a crowd, while desperately wanting to be able to speak more honestly with each other.
but i think they WILL be able to be more honest with each other towards the end of 3. its a principle of psychology and sociology that when two people go through an extreme trauma that one of them caused, and the other chooses to forgive the other/forgo their right to retribution, a bond is formed that is more powerful than pretty much anything else.
Originally posted by garbocats
Sorry to butt in here, but referring back to the Jack/liz pictures. I can't see why this is viewed as especially romantic, because it's so PUBLIC! I mean Murtogg and Mullroy and Marty and Gibbs and some other guy are all earwigging.I hate to say it but I reckon this scene is a moment more of nastiness or betrayal between them, witnessed by all - although spiced up no doubt because of their mutual sexual tension.
Just an observation ....
I think some people just see them together and it automaticually means something is going on and that they are about in love. I for one would be very shocked if at the end of the movie Jack/Liz end up together doesn't mean she will be with Will but I think all of the main charcters will end up happy some how, and I don't see Will being all happy if jack ends up with liz
But the fact that the crew around them are so serious and stonyfaced indicates perhaps that something else is afoot. She is serious too (and yes, perhaps she is lying and he knows it) - but within that potential context, this looks more like a fall-out of some kind. And at a guess, it is Jack who has betrayed her, or all of them, and this is his mode of self-defence: taunting her with her own feelings (he hopes/thinks). I think his laugh looks nervous, defensive.
Originally posted by katelovespirate
good observation--- though that's a general rule between them. since the island scene in 1, they havent gotten "romantic alone time"... only "witty conversations on the deck of ships where everyone pretends to be working so they can eavesdrop." lol. its part of the magic. they have to say everything in code/ make everything into double entendres, they can't ever really say what they mean. in some ways, they are playing to a crowd, while desperately wanting to be able to speak more honestly with each other.but i think they WILL be able to be more honest with each other towards the end of 3. its a principle of psychology and sociology that when two people go through an extreme trauma that one of them caused, and the other chooses to forgive the other/forgo their right to retribution, a bond is formed that is more powerful than pretty much anything else.
You might well be right here. But of course such emotional bonding does not have to be romantic in nature - desirable as that might be! But could be the basis for a serious friendship. The 'performative' mode of romancing and courtship is always associated with the bickering couple, and yes, they do have to find that moment of privacy to resolve their personal issues - but some couples find that they can only ever perform their love/feelings ... it would be interesting to see how Jack and Liz communicate alone, because that has not really been the case since the Island in CotBP (unless you count their DMC kiss, but that was definitely performance art, even if unwittingly so).
well, if you check out the costume sequence for Lizzie, this scene between her and Jack takes place either on the way to Shipwreck cove or on the way back... I'm guessing on the way to. picture spoilers imply that Barbossa is also on board, and Lizzie has just had some intense words with him... (what about, I wonder?)
so where's Will? Why does Elizabeth continually find herself on a boat with Jack and no Will?
I wouldn't call this a fall out, because in my humble opinion, Jack looks more confident and self assured than he has since film 1. he doesnt look like he is afraid of her anymore. He knows the depths of her weakness-- he knows she wouldn't be able to kill him again, he probably knows he still has a powerful weapon of physical attraction to hold over her, and he knows that all is not well between her and Will (at this point). She played her two best cards at the end of film 2--- she used her sexuality to kill him. Now she has no cards left, but Jack has a full hand.
That's what I've been wondering. Disney need to disentangle fast 'romantic' Jack (or at least fans' idealisation of him in that mould) asap, if they are going to move towards a definitive W/E ending, because no-one wants to see Jack hurt. Even though I strongly favour a J/E romance, if one is to be had, I actually view this trailer in a very poor light for J/E because I think Disney has had to prepare the ground for an acceptance of E/W with their kiss etc
Mind you, this is because they might have been so gobsmacked by the massive impact DMC had on the POTC fanbase in terms of shipping etc.
And to further ensure this huge Sparrabeth audience is not further alienated, perhaps they will embitter Jack against Elizabeth, but make him come good in the end ... as a faithful friend (fetching her that fountain of youth mullarkey I was reading on here earlier, for example).
Sorry to be such a misery guts.
Originally posted by murphy83
I think Jack is more of a mentor for both Liz and Will, because neither were happy in there old lives and he will at the end of it all be the reason they live there new lives doing what they are happy doing
I think you might be right, but the filmmakers screwed up then by sexualising his relationship with Elizabeth.
Originally posted by garbocatsbut part of the lust liz has for Jack might be more for the carefree lifestyle he has and not the person, plus some people forget that everything Liz did in DMC was to help Will
I think you might be right, but the filmmakers screwed up then by sexualising his relationship with Elizabeth.
Originally posted by murphy83
but part of the lust liz has for Jack might be more for the carefree lifestyle he has and not the person, plus some people forget that everything Liz did in DMC was to help Will
No. I never forget that. But I don't think that she only ever lusted after his lifestyle. She was simultaneously repelled and attracted to his 'person'. In profound lust I'd say.
Originally posted by garbocatsCould have been a little of both. I wonder if the writers added the Jack/liz stuff in DMC just so it would be another way to bring the will/liz realtionship into a bigger part of AWE.
No. I never forget that. But I don't think that she only ever lusted after his lifestyle. She was simultaneously repelled and attracted to his 'person'. In profound lust I'd say.
Originally posted by katelovespirate
mmmm... touche.
but does he? would Disney really put Jack Sparrow in the position of being truly in love with a woman who is going to marry someone else?
Why not? It makes a beautiful story on how fate got intervened...
Jack is goofy, loves rum and women, treassure etc. But underneath all that, Jack is just...lonely.
Excuse my aweful cheesyness, but have you notice on how he tries to fill his emptyness with jewels, women, his ship.
There is such a stron potential in Jack. He is goofy, but he is also strong, VERY strong in character and he has emotions.