Putting it all together...spoilers

Just a random thought, even though TnT don't really use flashbacks/forwards. But with Will being the Dutchman Captain, and Jack being all crusty, could that be Tia them the future if they are not careful?

E.G.
If Will doesn't forgive Liz for kissing Jack, then he'll be consumed by anger and take over the Dutchman, running it just as evily as Davey.
If Jack doesn't... urm.... do something then he'll be enslaved on the Dutchman.

Can't just think of what Jack must/must not do, probably something out of character.

What you guys think?

Originally posted by Kenny16
Hang on, if that was true, then why didn't people root for Barbosa in COTBP and Davy in DMC? People rooted for Jack because, he was Jack. And Jack might not want to kill everyone, but he is still dishonest, a lier, cheater, thief.... etc. Or are they just the victimless crimes?

And saying "everyone loves pirates..." is not exactly true. Everyone loves the Capt. Pugwash pirates, everyone loves Long John Silver. But who loves Capt. Hook?

And asking "What does it mean to be good?" Will is the pinnacle off good in the POTC films. He IS the moral weight of them.

Lol...sorry i just had to coment on this for a second....I was at the Ultimate Pirate Fan Event on Sunday and eveytime Barbossa would be on screen....ppl screamed!!!

PPL Love Barbossa....ppl are sooo Happy that he's back!! And i dont know if u watched DMC in the theater but at the end when Barbossa Came Back, PPL cheered for him!!!

Davy is a loved Character too!!

And just to be clear I LOVE CAPT. HOOK!!!! 😄

Originally posted by Kenny16
Just a random thought, even though TnT don't really use flashbacks/forwards. But with Will being the Dutchman Captain, and Jack being all crusty, could that be Tia them the future if they are not careful?

E.G.
If Will doesn't forgive Liz for kissing Jack, then he'll be consumed by anger and take over the Dutchman, running it just as evily as Davey.
If Jack doesn't... urm.... do something then he'll be enslaved on the Dutchman.

Can't just think of what Jack must/must not do, probably something out of character.

What you guys think?

Heck i prefer it to be a vision of what may come in the future then to actually have Jack as a Coral, Crusty Face at the bottom of the sea!! So i root for the IDea!

as for Will all evidence leads to him being the Capt. of the Flying Dutchman! thats his TOUCH of DESTINY!!

does will being the captn. of the flying dutchman mean that Will will be evil?
or is he supposed to be the captn to bring about change??

ALSO...technically if will is the captn then this means that piracy is still at large, am i right???

There, does that mean that THIS TIME, the EITC doesn't win???

Love is over-rated. Give me a ship and a pirate over a decent husband any day. Not that I'm a cynic or anything. 😉

Surreal, I'm glad you've found a new friend in Kenny! Sheesh, we could barely maintain the battle before, now we're going to have to double our efforts... right gang?

Will DOES become captain. that's just a fact. we don't know for how long. There are several theories:
1. Jack sails to the end of the earth to get elixir from the fountain of youth so that Elizabeth can join Will in being immortal on board the dutchman. (maybe Jack sails there WITH Will aboard the Dutchman, and has to make an oath to be able to, therefore becoming crusty in the process, to help the people he cares about. but of course, once they get the elixir, Jack gets back to normal.)
2. Elizabeth sacrifices herself to Calypso to save Will from the fate of becoming Captain for too long.
3. With the end of Calypso and Jones (has anyone else heard the rumor that Calypso departs by exploding into a thousand crabs? sounds weird to me) there will be no more Dutchman or need of a captain. Will is let off the hook.

any others that I missed?

Originally posted by Kenny16
Ok, hang on. Lots to respond too.

Savvy - I never could have predicted it too happen, and I still don't see it as a convincing character arch for Will to capt. the FD (well the FD in it's current "evil" state).

Tigers - I'm firmly on the side of the pirates, and completely agree with Jack being the romantic view of them. But my point remains that he is still and always has been, a pirate. In the first film, he lies (to the dockmaster), manipulates (the two guards), takes hostage, resists arrest, steals, attempted assault.... and thats all on entering and leaving Port Royal. All crimes. And who says he doesn't murder. Does everyone forget the death of Barbosa at the end of COTBP?

Kenny---

Just because he becomes Captain of the Flying Dutchman doesn't mean he turns evil or carves out his heart. He has no choice in the matter; he has to stab the heart or he will die essentially.

Back to Will not being able to get over Liz kissing Jack....guys, Jack calls her out on it. He blatantly says to all of them in the trailer that "one of them" killed him and he's looking right at her. Will's no dummy. He can put 2 and 2 together. If anything, he's going to feel immense relief that she kissed him to bait him. It's going to make him believe there really is nothing going on between her and Jack and he'll probably feel much better about his own relationship with her. He's not going to go all psycho and become the captain of the Dutchman because of that.

PS Kate: your sig is hysterical.

oh bugger it all...its just getting so confusing for me now lol.

does anyone fancy writing out the basic plotline? you know; so people with no common sense (mainly me lol) will know where everything approximately fits in??
(if anyone happens to know that kind of info?)

i think most people are confused because they are hearing alot of spoilers, and they are confused as to where it all fits together...

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Kate: Because as corny as it's going to sound, LOVE is more vital than lust. LOVE is the driving force behind every action Elizabeth and Will take for each other.

There is no way that Elizabeth was going to sacrifice Will for Jack. The writers note several times that "the only way to have Jack and Elizabeth kiss was to save Will", and that there isn't much debate about "how much Elizabeth weighs Will's life" when she makes the decision to chain Jack up. Will, Will, Will, Will....everything revolves around Will.

She wasn't going to shoot the barrels when Will encouraged her to do so, even though he knew he'd probably die. She wasn't going to shoot. She didn't want to...yet there was only a brief hesitation when she chained Jack up.

Maybe, in AWE, TnT can convince me that Elizabeth's love for Will has faded from being able to kill for him to leaving him for Jack. They're talented writers, it could possibly be done.

But so far, the argument of J/E look hot together does not stand up against the fact that Elizabeth killed for Will.

LUST, which is what TnT have mentioned as what Elizabeth is feeling, tends to be fleeting. Lust is typically considered unhealthy, shallow and self-serving. Which is why Jack ends up chained to the mast while Elizabeth goes off with the man she loves -- Will.

Lust is important, and it's powerful, but nothing can compare to deep, real love. 😄 That's the answer to your question, poorly worded though it may be.

ok so she Killed for Will! But then why after she "Killed for Will" did she distance herself from Will! If she did it for him....wouldn't she be happier that he's alive and well! Instead the minute she stepped into the longboat she was in another world....her head was perhaps back on the Pearl with Jack! IDK

But she certainly was not with WILL! She said she wasn't sorry, but we all know she was! Her actions spoke louder than her words....Because whatever her feelings may be love or lust she has feelings for him! So much feelings for him that she couldnt hold her composer in front of Will she was in so pain perhaps guilt consumed her, whatever it was it was so obvious that Will even try offering her consolment by saying that if there wasa way to bring back Jack he would do it....Ultimately triggering Tia to interupt him, and ultimately agreeing to set out and bring back this deseased Captain that his beloved cares for.

the thing that gets me is liz/beckett convo in DMC about the letters of marqu(sp?)....

beckett seems to assume that elizabeth is taking great lengths to ensure JACK'S freedom...she has to tell him that they are for WILL...

Me thinks that the lady dot protest too much...
and i think beckett knows something

I just don't get Beckett. How on earth can you interpret an entire relationship based on BOTH Liz and Will correcting him by giving Jack his title of captain? Does she even mention Jack when she takes the letters from Beckett, other than "why would you want his compass" or something? I always toss that out because Beckett is a manipulator and he's trying to get her to think about anything, anything that doesn't have to do with pulling that trigger and blowing his small head away.

Yeah, you can't argue for one and not the other right now. That's why at this point there is a love triangle. Both J/Eers and W/Eers need to be able to see the evidence on both sides. The writers clearly make references to the chemistry and positive aspects of Liz and Will's relationship, but also make several references to her and Jack's relationship, including how her leaning in is essentially telling him she did have feelings, and I can't agree all those feelings were lust.

Surreal, for once we agree! Break out the champagne! I love debating you, girl, but it's so cool when we agree on something. Love does triumph over lust. I think Kate was just saying love needs passion, and it does. Talk to any psychologist. If a love has passion, intimacy, and commitment, it's golden.

passion, intimacy, and commitment... sigh. it only takes passion and intimacy to create romance, which is perhaps the emotion I'm talking about.

i'm all over the place. i'm a romantic at heart, who masquerades as a cynic from time to time when i get especially frustrated in life. all it takes is some serious "gazing into each other's eyes" to flip me back around.

i do think Jack and Elizabeth love each other... not in a dovey "i'm so in love with you" way at all, which is why I generally avoid using this word with both of them. i think my view of love is just a bit different. Did anyone see Blood Diamond? You know the connection between Maddy and Danny? Intense. Smoking hot. Sometimes wrathful. Always exciting. Moment of vulnerability and intense bonding. Could you call it love? Definitely not in a chick flick way. Not even in a Casablanca way. It's more desperate, more gritty, more real, more "in the midst of life as it comes". It's a deep friendship and a powerful attraction. it's not puppy love. sometimes it's a partnership. it's always edgy and unpredictable. anyways i could continue to ramble, but the point i'm trying to make is, THIS love is more powerful to me than any riding into the rainbow on a white horse. make sense?

ps. thanks for the comments on my sig! 🙂

Originally posted by katelovespirate
the point i'm trying to make is, THIS love is more powerful to me than any riding into the rainbow on a white horse. make sense?

heraring you loud and clear!!!

😄

So whatever way they feel about each other, how could Beckett pick up on it from zilch? It doesn't make sense unless he's just trying to distract her.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
So whatever way they feel about each other, how could Beckett pick up on it from zilch? It doesn't make sense unless he's just trying to distract her.

at this moment in time we dont know exactly how much beckett knows...

We know he wants the compass.
we know that tia gave jack the compass.
We know that Jack knew beckett in the past...

is there any chance that tia knew beckett, too?
I mean;

Spoiler:
It was jack that apparently freed the slaves, right? ... went against beckett? Tia must have been involved somewhere, and i think this is where jack knew her from?

So beckett may know about the compass from there...
unless its legend?

I just get the feeling that the compass is supposed to be used for something much more huge!!!!

everything seems to be centered around it...

Originally posted by willofthewisp
So whatever way they feel about each other, how could Beckett pick up on it from zilch? It doesn't make sense unless he's just trying to distract her.

You have to remember that Beckett may not know Elizabeth overly well, but does have a history with Jack. I would venture a guess that he sees a little of Jack in Elizabeth from the way she conducts her 'negociation' with him. I would also venture a guess that he may recognize the differences in styles of 'negociation' between Will and Elizabeth. Elizabeth's much more pirate like in her manner of achieving the letters of marque, while Will is very straightforward and essentially honorable. Jack comments on the style difference later in DMC as well.

Delete

Originally posted by willofthewisp
So whatever way they feel about each other, how could Beckett pick up on it from zilch? It doesn't make sense unless he's just trying to distract her.

^^ Exactly thats why i think Beckett and Tia are in cahoots...lol!! I mean they both have something to gain...Tia helps Beckett get the heart and in return Beckett causes a Pirate Gathering where she can be set free....It's in his best interest to help Tia since she controls the seas!!! lol...sorry thats just one of my theories!!

Okay, but why would they be in cahoots if Tia has a history with Jack? He couldn't have been THAT bad to her. They seem on friendly terms if a little nervous around each other. Jack mentions 4 people tried to kill him in the trailer and we narrowed that down to Will, Barbossa, and Liz, so Tia must be the 4th, but why the turn around?

maybe its because of something to do with jones??
i dont know just ignore me 🙂