Originally posted by Kenny16
I'm not talking about the Now-Murky-Gray-Liz. But is all Liz's actions a means to an end? Immoral actions for the greater good?
I'd say they were similar to Jack's. She's trying to survive, trying to get what she wants, and trying to do the right thing, pretty much in that order. Jack's code seems to match up with that pretty well.
You know who the real murderer is....Elizabeth....she murdered Jack...she didn't have to murder Jack...she saw Jack in the longboat...she knew it was possible they could make it to land..cuz even though Jack was off in the longboat the Kracken was still attacking the Pearl....so just why did she murder Jack.....i'm beginning to wonder....
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
.Will knew good and well what he was getting himself into....go listen to the commentary at that part...they defend Jack to the end....
Will did not know what he was getting himself into when going over to the Dutchman.
Will Turner: This... is going to save Elizabeth?
Jack Sparrow: How much do you know about Davey Jones?
Will Turner: Not much.
Jack Sparrow: Yeah, it's gonna save Elizabeth.
He didn't know anything about what he was getting himself into.
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
You know who the real murderer is....Elizabeth....she murdered Jack...she didn't have to murder Jack...she saw Jack in the longboat...she knew it was possible they could make it to land..cuz even though Jack was off in the longboat the Kracken was still attacking the Pearl....so just why did she murder Jack.....i'm beginning to wonder....
Very good point....
Murdering hussy.......
Again, means to the end. She murdered him to save the rest of the crew.
yep...in the commentary....ted and terry compare Liz to Jack several times....I love it when they say "now, who does that sound like?".....
and jack even says it himself...
"Might I inquire as to how you came by these."
Will strikes a deal for these and upholds it with honor, yet, you are the one standing here with the prize......
As I said, Persuade Me....
responses:
1. Will Turner should know enough by now not to trust Jack implicitly. If he does, that's his own fault. Plus, once again, Jack wasn't sacrificing him. He had a plan.
2. "Slake her lust and drown her guilt"... as if she cares more about Gibbs or Marty than she does about Jack. lol. Maybe Will, but mainly because she is super protective of him. (thats how their relationship began, her father telling her to look after him.)
Originally posted by Kenny16
Will did not know what he was getting himself into when going over to the Dutchman.Will Turner: This... is going to save Elizabeth?
Jack Sparrow: How much do you know about Davey Jones?
Will Turner: Not much.
Jack Sparrow: Yeah, it's gonna save Elizabeth.He didn't know anything about what he was getting himself into.
sorry..but I'm just repeating what Ted and Terry said in the commentary.....let me go quote it for ya..... 😉
OMG..I found this...something I posted a while back...
okay....on the scene...with Norrington's sword..they say they are tracking the sword that Will made for Norrington at the request of Gov. Swann..and it will continued to be tracked throughout the third movie...soo.....that Sword has some sort of Destiny with it...or why else would they focus on it.....is Will going to stab the heart with the knife his father gave him...or will it be with the sword he made for Norrington....or will that sword be use for some other purpose...I hope its not foreshadowing that Norrington meets his death by use of the sword that was made for him....and I hope Will's not on the other end of that sword...what does anyone else think...what is the significance of them tracking the Norrington Sword made by Will......
So does the sword that Will made for Norrington have something to do with that Scar on Will's chest.....does Will almost meet his maker at the hand of a sword that he made...and by the man he made it for......
Here Kenny..I posted this on another thread last month when I was watching the DVD commentary....
anyways...watching DMC commentary...and T and T are talking about the scene when Jack sends Will on board the FD....and T and T say that some think Jack is being devious right here, but t and t go on to say that Jack he really isn't...they point out that Jack tells Will whats going to happen when he goes over to the FD .Will doesn't go there totally blind...T and T's exact words are that they say that Jack doesn't really trick him...he tells Will he's going to run into unruly creatures he may have to fight...etc.....Jack tells Will how bad it may be over there...and he tells him to tell Davy he came to settle Jack's debt..it may save your life....
I agree with Kenny in that it doesn't make sense for the money maker to be tied down. Especially if they are considering possible sequels in the future, Jack Sparrow having Elizabeth either as a wife or "friends with benefits" type of relationship makes the appeal of his character go down.
The commentary seems quite clear to me, as do the many comments from TnT on this matter. Also lovethemtigers and Kate, you really need to have the whole commentary up there to take those few quotes in the proper context. I believe that TnT also made a comment very similar to this when they were discussing the compass and why it pointed to Jack when Elizabeth looked at it when on the Pearl: "What you want is changeable, like lust".
Now that's an interesting comment, and one worth looking into. Sorry if the above paragraph seemed harsh; I reworded it about a dozen times to try to take the sting out, and this is the best I can do. 😄
SEMI-SPOILERISH ABOUT THE SWORD ----- Don't read below if you don't want to see it!
James' sword...*sigh* James is going to go out fighting, from what I understand, and after he's dead, Jones takes it. The sword is a reminder to the audience, and to the characters of James and his sacrifices (at least that's how I hope it's played out), and if Will becomes captain of the Dutchman, I believe that he will "inherit" it, making the sword's journey complete.
EDITED TO ADD: Lovethemtigers, TnT say that Will knows he's going to have to fight. The main point here is that Jack sort of fails to mention that the crew can't be killed. Yes, TnT defend Jack's actions here, but only slightly. 😄
Surreal, in response, I'm going to go back to the question I always ask at this point in our arguments.... What makes "Lust" or the changeability of wanting something less important or meaningful than an engagement? I'm serious. Can you spell it out for me, keeping in mind the bent morality and twisted value system of these films?
Kate: Because as corny as it's going to sound, LOVE is more vital than lust. LOVE is the driving force behind every action Elizabeth and Will take for each other.
There is no way that Elizabeth was going to sacrifice Will for Jack. The writers note several times that "the only way to have Jack and Elizabeth kiss was to save Will", and that there isn't much debate about "how much Elizabeth weighs Will's life" when she makes the decision to chain Jack up. Will, Will, Will, Will....everything revolves around Will.
She wasn't going to shoot the barrels when Will encouraged her to do so, even though he knew he'd probably die. She wasn't going to shoot. She didn't want to...yet there was only a brief hesitation when she chained Jack up.
Maybe, in AWE, TnT can convince me that Elizabeth's love for Will has faded from being able to kill for him to leaving him for Jack. They're talented writers, it could possibly be done.
But so far, the argument of J/E look hot together does not stand up against the fact that Elizabeth killed for Will.
LUST, which is what TnT have mentioned as what Elizabeth is feeling, tends to be fleeting. Lust is typically considered unhealthy, shallow and self-serving. Which is why Jack ends up chained to the mast while Elizabeth goes off with the man she loves -- Will.
Lust is important, and it's powerful, but nothing can compare to deep, real love. 😄 That's the answer to your question, poorly worded though it may be.
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Kate: Because as corny as it's going to sound, LOVE is more vital than lust. LOVE is the driving force behind every action Elizabeth and Will take for each other.There is no way that Elizabeth was going to sacrifice Will for Jack. The writers note several times that "the only way to have Jack and Elizabeth kiss was to save Will", and that there isn't much debate about "how much Elizabeth weighs Will's life" when she makes the decision to chain Jack up. Will, Will, Will, Will....everything revolves around Will.
She wasn't going to shoot the barrels when Will encouraged her to do so, even though he knew he'd probably die. She wasn't going to shoot. She didn't want to...yet there was only a brief hesitation when she chained Jack up.
Maybe, in AWE, TnT can convince me that Elizabeth's love for Will has faded from being able to kill for him to leaving him for Jack. They're talented writers, it could possibly be done.
But so far, the argument of J/E look hot together does not stand up against the fact that Elizabeth killed for Will.
LUST, which is what TnT have mentioned as what Elizabeth is feeling, tends to be fleeting. Lust is typically considered unhealthy, shallow and self-serving. Which is why Jack ends up chained to the mast while Elizabeth goes off with the man she loves -- Will.
Lust is important, and it's powerful, but nothing can compare to deep, real love. 😄 That's the answer to your question, poorly worded though it may be.
Finally, someone can put the same things I've been meaning to say into better words!
*Drops to knees and bows down*
Here's how it goes:
1) WE have NO idea what will happen!!! The only things we know for certain is that Barbossa is 'Captain' for awhile and they all go to save Jack. We don't know who's going to die or who's going to end up with who. And frankly,I don't care! They know what to show us to keep us going.
2) We can't we just be happy we got the trailer AND a clip? I mean come on,that's a treat!