So it sounds to me based on that, Jack has been planning this from the start. From the moment he walked into Beckett's office.
It says "their" plan. Meaning that Jack had a hand in the plan as well. Which means that the line is meant to be more of a play act than actually heart felt.
Jack intends to steal the heart and stab it. But there are rumor surrounding the way the stabbing of the heart goes down that makes me suspicious. I wonder what Elizabeth's reaction to trading Jack will be.
She looked over at Will, who saw the dawning realization in her eyes. He nodded very slightly. He knew she'd figured out their plan. Meanwhile, Jack was arguing with Jones.
"That debt was pd", he insisted. He gave a mocking half-bow to Elizabeth. "With some help". "You escaped", Jones pointed out. Jack waved his hand airily. "A technicality", he said. It was time for Lizzy to speak up, and she knew just what to say. "There's no better end for Jack Sparrow than bilge rat aboard the flying dutchman", she announced. "I propose an exchg. Will leaves with us...and you can have Jack." "Done", said Will quickly.
"Not done!" Jack objected. "Done", agreed Beckett
"Elizabeth, love, you're condemning me", Jack said, "again".
I coppied and paste it here so we can look it over and not to go to the previous page.
Jack makes gestures to Elizabeth as if like *hint* *hint*
It's not the rumor of the stabbing so much as it is Jack's motivations in his dealings with Beckett that have me slightly baffled. Simply because those motivations will come into play on how he is percieved by the other characters after he has Will stab the heart.
If his intentions all along never had anything to do with sundering Elizabeth from Will, then his act of sacrificing Immortality will be seen as a very noble act by all the characters involved.
However, if his motivations are slightly more ambiguous, it will seem as though Jack essentially committed murder to try to gain Elizabeth. From a certain point of view, even if his intentions were to try to save Will's life so that Will can be with Elizabeth.
I don't know, I'm super tired so I don't know if this is making sense.
I think Jack's motivations are to originally, take Elizabeth. I seriously think Jack becomes the number one bastard in the movie, if only briefly, by betraying the pirates to Beckett.
Will mucks up his plans somewhat, and in the course of talking to Will, Jack realizes how much he's been hurting Will AND Elizabeth, and he seems to get it that he could maybe help Will out.
However, Jack being Jack, has to make sure that all his bases are covered. He has to get rid of Will, because if the plan goes to hell, he can put the blame somewhere else. Who would doubt him if he told them that Will betrayed them all to Beckett?
At any rate, by the time the council is over, Jack has made his decision; he will fight for the pirates. It explains why Will is still uncertain with Jack, plus by leaving Will in the dark, it makes his reactions more genuine.
So to answer your concern, I think that Jack had come to terms with Elizabeth and Will loving each other and wanting to be together, but fate steps in once again when Will is mortally wounded, and Jack makes the choice to help save Will, because at least his friends would have some small chance of happiness.
Being captain of the Dutchman sunders Will from Elizabeth for 10 years at a time; being dead would seperate Will from Elizabeth for all time. Plus, I don't think Jack wants Will to die, so the motivation isn't purely for the happiness of Will and Elizabeth. In Will, Jack has found a foil and if he can allow it to develop, a friend and great ally. If Jack's character has grown at all, then he won't want to lose that friendship if he can help it.
Just my thoughts. I'm tired too, so this is probably incoherent.
Ok, well you can argue yes and no. She's not initially made aware of Will and Jack's plan. Jack knows that she's smart, but maybe he assumes that she hasn't figured out the plan and that she wants to betray him anyway in return for his apparent betrayal of Will. So it's sort of a "is this really how you feel type question. Do you care what happens to me or not."
OR
He's just playing to the crowd for Beckett's sake, knowing full and well that Elizabeth doesn't necessarily want to send him off with Beckett, but that she has no other choice and is going along with the plan. He has to make Beckett believe that he had no intention of going along with him, and that he's been duped.
Originally posted by Surreal_44
I think Jack's motivations are to originally, take Elizabeth. I seriously think Jack becomes the number one bastard in the movie, if only briefly, by betraying the pirates to Beckett.Will mucks up his plans somewhat, and in the course of talking to Will, Jack realizes how much he's been hurting Will AND Elizabeth, and he seems to get it that he could maybe help Will out.
However, Jack being Jack, has to make sure that all his bases are covered. He has to get rid of Will, because if the plan goes to hell, he can put the blame somewhere else. Who would doubt him if he told them that Will betrayed them all to Beckett?
At any rate, by the time the council is over, Jack has made his decision; he will fight for the pirates. It explains why Will is still uncertain with Jack, plus by leaving Will in the dark, it makes his reactions more genuine.
So to answer your concern, I think that Jack had come to terms with Elizabeth and Will loving each other and wanting to be together, but fate steps in once again when Will is mortally wounded, and Jack makes the choice to help save Will, because at least his friends would have some small chance of happiness.
Being captain of the Dutchman sunders Will from Elizabeth for 10 years at a time; being dead would seperate Will from Elizabeth for all time. Plus, I don't think Jack wants Will to die, so the motivation isn't purely for the happiness of Will and Elizabeth. In Will, Jack has found a foil and if he can allow it to develop, a friend and great ally. If Jack's character has grown at all, then he won't want to lose that friendship if he can help it.
Just my thoughts. I'm tired too, so this is probably incoherent.
Ha, no it makes sense to me. It's that balanced perspective that I look for from you. I tend to see things from a J/E perspective, which I think was what was getting him hung up about Jack's motivations.
You're probably right. That's pretty darn good for being tired!
There are so many different versions to it. Withouth actually being too shippy...
But again, how can we predict Jack's motivations?
Let's see. Let's see where it takes place "keep telling yourself that, darling". Either was before or after the battle. And was she indicating on what Jack was planning.
I'm trying to be as neutral as possible.
Originally posted by Minie Mina
There are so many different versions to it. Withouth actually being too shippy...But again, how can we predict Jack's motivations?
Let's see. Let's see where it takes place "keep telling yourself that, darling". Either was before or after the battle. And was she indicating on what Jack was planning.
I'm trying to be as neutral as possible.
Well, rumor has it that it's after, which tells me that she was unaware of his plans and his intentions in having Will stab the heart. Call it a hunch. What do you think Chiki?
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Thankies. 😄 And now I think I'm off to bed. 😛 I must cradle my picture of James and mourn him. More. Darn it. Another character dead because I liked them....And look at poor Will; I like him too and it's almost worse for him. *sulks and goes to bed*
But what a send off for James eh? That's one scene I'm definitely going to enjoy watching because let's be honest, it's freaking hot!
Things are SO bad for Will. He won't die at least! He'll have his own ship, he'll have rescued his father, saved the battle, blown Beckett to pieces and possibly may have even gotten his chance with Elizabeth.
There's not a whole lot to feel sorry for. Sure, he'll only get to see Elizabeth every ten years, but considering the trade off, it's not too bad.
Originally posted by savvysparrow
Well, rumor has it that it's after, which tells me that she was unaware of his plans and his intentions in having Will stab the heart. Call it a hunch. What do you think Chiki?
God, I just paused for a minute lol trying to think.
Hmmm. I'm not ignoring your theory. I think it could be possible. But won't it make Jack look awful? How can I explain this...the audience may think that Jack is quiet a jack ass on doing this. Making all this trouble so he can have Elizabeth. Or, Jack knowing Will's destiny and was just simply trying to help...?
Crazy I know^^
Well, here's another theory:
What if it's the other way around? What if Elizabeth suspects that he did this for a way to get her? That this was all a plan to make himself look like a hero in front of Elizabeth. Therefore, winning over her heart and showing that he did all this for her.
That could explain on why she said "It will never..." (blah blah I'm tired on repeating it). Trying to hide her feelings like the end of DMC when he rescued her. Showing that he is indeed a good man.
Just speculating, again lol.
Originally posted by Minie Mina
Well, here's another theory:What if it's the other way around? What if Elizabeth suspects that he did this for a way to get her? That this was all a plan to make himself look like a hero in front of Elizabeth. Therefore, winning over her heart and showing that he did all this for her.
That could explain on why she said "It will never..." (blah blah I'm tired on repeating it). Trying to hide her feelings like the end of DMC when he rescued her. Showing that he is indeed a good man.
Just speculating, again lol.
Explain what you mean here. I'm not quite sure I understand the theory. So you're saying that Elizabeth suspects that every thing Jack has done is a plan of his to woo her so that he'll look more heroic?
Originally posted by savvysparrow
Explain what you mean here. I'm not quite sure I understand the theory. So you're saying that Elizabeth suspects that every thing Jack has done is a plan of his to woo her so that he'll look more heroic?
Yes. Sorry, I should've made that post a little clearer.
Elizabeth could suspect that Jack planned all this to win her. Since he showed that he could be a good man in DMC. She might think that he's trying to be good again.
But it wasn't really Jack's intentions. He did it out of heart. Because he truly changed and redeem himself.
Sorry for the shipiness.
No apologies for the shippiness! I rather like it 🙂 It doesn't seem as though he wants to be a good man when he first exits purgatory. But I think he has a change of heart at Shipwreck cove. When I have more time later Mina, I may pm you my theory of how this all fits together, since it too is shippy. 🙂
I got one more surprise for you lol. Before I go to bed--5 more minutes.
Suddenly, things clicked into place in Elizabeth's head. The Dutchman-Jack's debt-Will's father-the one fool still willing to fight...and Jack's determination never to die again. It all made sense. Of course, Jack wouldn't mind killing Davy Jones in exchange for being captain of the Dutchman, with immortality in the bargain. And then Will's father could be freed...and Will could still be with her.