Originally posted by inamilist
It's would be really interesting to see the evolution of 2damn and rutogs arguments here. When they started it was all "breaking magneto's shield" and all that, now its ionizing atoms in order to remove the electrons from the body of individuals.
Although wouldn't ionizing a person's entire body be lethal?
Originally posted by inamilist
I think we kinda got into this in a Wolverine vs Green Goblin debate.I agree, except for that it is the highest form of CIS for Storm to just hang there and wait to die...
Should there be a time restriction on fights? For instance, this would mean that Storm looses to a very dense ball of rubber...
As far as I know, there is not supposed to be any time restriction on fights.
It brings up the question of stamina in stalemates.
Hence the reason that Mr. Immortal will beat the Juggernaut in a battle to the death. 😛.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Although wouldn't ionizing a person's entire body be lethal?
I was thinking about that
It's totally beyond my realm of knowledge, though I can say with certainty that death would follow closely after. Whether that would be due to the ionizing itself or the reaction to the ionizing I don't know. In fact, I have no idea what the atomic effects of this would be, outside of catastrophic.
However, thats my best guess at real world physics...
Originally posted by inamilist
I was thinking about thatIt's totally beyond my realm of knowledge, though I can say with certainty that death would follow closely after. Whether that would be due to the ionizing itself or the reaction to the ionizing I don't know. In fact, I have no idea what the atomic effects of this would be, outside of catastrophic.
However, thats my best guess at real world physics...
If you ionized the brain it would basicly be the equivalent of a massive stroke or a huge eplietic seizure.
At best it would leave them nonfuctional for quite some time since either the neurons would be over stimulated or destroyed.
Originally posted by Soljer
As far as I know, there is not supposed to be any time restriction on fights.It brings up the question of stamina in stalemates.
Hence the reason that Mr. Immortal will beat the Juggernaut in a battle to the death. 😛.
Fair enough
I would say it may be inappropriate in some situations, but I understand your point entirely, and pretty much agree 🙂
But, does the juggernaut age?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If you ionized the brain it would basicly be the equivalent of a massive stroke or a huge eplietic seizure.At best it would leave them nonfunctional for quite some time since either the neurons would be over stimulated or destroyed.
I'm not sure if it would be similar to epilepsy, but many of the functions of the brain are VERY dependent on the electric charge of ions.
Removing all the electrons in the brain would instantly cause it to stop functioning. I guess I'm wondering if the person would survive the ionization long enough to die from heart and brain failure 😛
Originally posted by inamilist
Fair enoughI would say it may be inappropriate in some situations, but I understand your point entirely, and pretty much agree 🙂
But, does the juggernaut age?
Not to my knowledge. But Mr. Immortal is to be the last living being. Period.
That means Galactus? Cytorrak? Dead.
No Cytorrak, no Juggernaut. 😉.
WOW, this is hard.:laugh"
I'm not sure what it would do to Kitty. I'm sure she wouldn't be the same though.😆
I'll get back to you.
I'm sure I can come up with a way Storm could kill her in an atomized state.
I mean she still has FEELINGS and a mind.
I would think that altering her atoms, either making her an anion or cation would affect her.
What you all seem to fail to realize is, Storm controls the fundemental forces of nature by default of her weather munipulating abilities. That's why her powers can and have been expanded in different ways in the comics.
The Spiderman/Storm analogy is really bad since Spiderman doesn't control friction, his body acclimated to do thing spiders does. I think Spiders climb up walls using hairs on their legs, a sticky silk or something. Whereas storm controls the weather with her body and Mind, psionically moving componets around, munipulating the EM spectrum, subatomic particels etc.
It might end up being a Stalemate if Storms EMP doesn't work.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
WOW, this is hard.:laugh"I'm not sure what it would do to Kitty. I'm sure she wouldn't be the same though.😆
I'll get back to you.
I'm sure I can come up with a way Storm could kill her in an atomized state.
I mean she still has FEELINGS and a mind.
I would think that altering her atoms, either making her an anion or cation would affect her.
What you all seem to fail to realize is, Storm controls the fundemental forces of nature by default of her weather munipulating abilities. That's why her powers can and have been expanded in different ways in the comics.
The Spiderman/Storm analogy is really bad since Spiderman doesn't control friction, his body acclimated to do thing spiders does. I think Spiders climb up walls using hairs on their legs, a sticky silk or something. Whereas storm controls the weather with her body and Mind, psionically moving componets around, munipulating the EM spectrum, subatomic particels etc.
It might end up being a Stalemate if Storms EMP doesn't work.
You have failed to provide evidence that Storm can ionize matter outside of weather manipulation
This is THE most pivotal claim of your argument. Without proving it you have proven nothing. However, once you do provide evidence for this, you have shown that Storm is much more powerful than we think.
And as to the Spiderman thing... Are you saying it is not friction that keeps him stuck to walls? Again, I'm not a physicist, but wouldn't what you described be him sticking via friction?
Forcing her to become tangible again may be possible, just like ionizing is possible. Please provide the necessary evidence to support your point.
Originally posted by inamilist
You have failed to provide evidence that Storm can ionize matter outside of weather manipulationThis is THE most pivotal claim of your argument. Without proving it you have proven nothing. However, once you do provide evidence for this, you have shown that Storm is much more powerful than we think.
And as to the Spiderman thing... Are you saying it is not friction that keeps him stuck to walls? Again, I'm not a physicist, but wouldn't what you described be him sticking via friction?
Forcing her to become tangible again may be possible, just like ionizing is possible. Please provide the necessary evidence to support your point.
And that would prove what?? 😕
Why would she have to ionize matter "outside of weather" in order to ionize Kitty?? Electrons are electrons.
Again, nix your "Storm should be doing other things argument." It can be said about every comicbook character.
Kitty really wouldn't be "matter" anyomore anyway. She'd be Atoms, straight up Atoms.
In order for kitty to be intangable she seems to force her atoms to repel each other and......hmmmm.
I'm trying to figure out how storm can induce tangability. 🙂
Storm's main avnue toward a win is her lectrical powers. I just have to figure out how she would use them. I'm on to something.
I could say storm makes her into a bathing suit, she did do that. 💃
Originally posted by 2damnloud
And that would prove what?? 😕Why would she have to ionize matter "outside of weather" in order to ionize Kitty?? Electrons are electrons.
Again, nix your "Storm should be doing other things argument." It can be said about every comicbook character.
Kitty really wouldn't be "matter" anyomore anyway. She'd be Atoms, straight up Atoms.
In order for kitty to be intangable she seems to force her atoms to repel each other and......hmmmm.
I'm trying to figure out how storm can induce tangability. 🙂
Storm's main avnue toward a win is her lectrical powers. I just have to figure out how she would use them. I'm on to something.
I could say storm makes her into a bathing suit, she did do that. 💃
Pure speculation until on-panel proof is provided of the things you claim she can do.
Just because she can ionize a doesn't mean she can ionize b, by default.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
And that would prove what?? 😕
...
your point?
that you are correct?
that there is evidence behind your reasoning?
You should really look into logical philosophy, especially about the idea of proof. It is NOT, and nor should it be, easy to prove anything. This prevents people from just being able to prove anything with mere speculation.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Why would she have to ionize matter "outside of weather" in order to ionize Kitty?? Electrons are electrons.
Well, since her powers are manifested in weather based phenomena, the idea that she could affect non weather items, like a solid human, is speculative. Even her most intriguing feat, the transmutation of air into a dress, is a weather based manipulation.
Really, you need to have on panel evidence when you say stuff like this.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Again, nix your "Storm should be doing other things argument." It can be said about every comicbook character.
Really? Can you make that argument for the Hulk?
It IS a valid point, one that I hadn't brought up, but you were astute enough to know what was coming, good job trying to outright dismiss it, although that is a logical fallacy called the "confirmation bias".
The reason that the "chronic underachiever" hypotheses does apply to your version of Storm is this: In comics, real matter manipulators don't waste their time with weather. It would be a complete waste. You are completely right, if Storm had access to the powers you say she does, then she would be at least low level herald. However, there is no evidence that even suggests she has access to this power. The fact that you cherry pick appearances for writers alluding to some previously unseen power level only further shows that you are reaching.
Think about it, if she was REALLY as powerful as you think, wouldn't you have 1000s of examples? She has been around for over 30 years.
So, unless you have a better matter manipulation feat than "weather manipulation" she is a weather manipulator and not a matter manipulator.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Kitty really wouldn't be "matter" anyomore anyway. She'd be Atoms, straight up Atoms.
are you able to tell me the difference between atoms and matter?
Originally posted by 2damnloud
In order for kitty to be intangable she seems to force her atoms to repel each other and......hmmmm.
Is this stated on panel or is it further speculation...
I have personally never seen an appearance where her body is in danger of ripping itself apart. Even when caught in explosions.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
I'm trying to figure out how storm can induce tangability. 🙂
See, here is the problem. You are trying to figure out.
Well, all due respect, but it doesn't matter in the least what you think or figure
Show it on panel and we can start discussing
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Storm's main avnue toward a win is her lectrical powers. I just have to figure out how she would use them. I'm on to something.
Considering DC posted a variety of scans showing that Shadowcat is
unaffected by electricity...
here is the post quoted for you:
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Because part of her phasing power has always been, since the first comic she appeared in, that electricity does jack shit to her when she phases?
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/3888/9distrupselectromagneticfieldsgp9.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5596/13lightningdoesnotworkne6.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6941/51destroyssateliteexplouy8.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6732/53phasingcerebrori2.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6504/57scramblesystemshv6.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3445/59beatsskrull2zy2.jpg
In an honest intellectual discourse aimed at discerning the "fact" of the matter, you NEED to address these. Why is it that Storm's electricity will affect Kitty now, but not here:
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5596/13lightningdoesnotworkne6.jpg
However, I would hardly call your Storm pumping an honest intellectual discourse...
Originally posted by 2damnloud
I could say storm makes her into a bathing suit, she did do that. 💃
Wow... the strange thing is that there is MORE evidence for this claim than ANYTHING ELSE you have said. Simply because there is ONE scan of this, vs ZERO of the others.
On the main boards there is a discussion devoted strictly to what PIS is. I think it is called something like PIS vs "I don't like it, it didn't happen". Look that one up, there is some pretty good talk about why certain things are specifically admissible as valid.
What's happening is:
On a forum with hypothetical fights, extrapolation and interpretation from powerset comes into play since it is hypothetical.
These two, as in alot of others, have NEVER fought.
Canon states Storm can control electrons and even SEE subatomic particles. The degree to which is up to the writer.
That's apart of her powerset. Can't change it.
Whether she's not using it for other things is irrelevant since I'm not the writer for her it just doesn't have anything to do with anything.
Kitty breaks herself down to an atomic state and muneuvers her way around the atomic structure of matter.
People on here just don't allow storm fans the liberty of extrapolation in hypothetical fights.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
What's happening is:On a forum with hypothetical fights, extrapolation and interpretation from powerset comes into play since it is hypothetical.
These two, as in alot of others, have NEVER fought.
Canon states Storm can control electrons and even SEE subatomic particles. The degree to which is up to the writer.
That's apart of her powerset. Can't change it.
Nobody argues this. You have done an excellent job showing that storm is able to view energies and make lightning out of very subtle electron manipulation.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Whether she's not using it for other things is irrelevant since I'm not the writer for her it just doesn't have anything to do with anything.
Yes, this is the argument. YOU are not the writer. THUS you do NOT get to speculate. You are limited to ONLY what the writers have provided for you.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Kitty breaks herself down to an atomic state and muneuvers her way around the atomic structure of matter.
There is no link between this fact and the fact that Storm can manipulate electrons to produce weather based effects.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
People on here just don't allow storm fans the liberty of extrapolation in hypothetical fights.
Correct
We allow no fans any liberty of extrapolation of any character
By joe you might got it
Example:
Me: Storm can control the weather with her mind, wow pretty cool. How does she actually do that
Canon: She can see and control energy patterns that govern the universe
Me: cool😱
Scenario: Storm and kitty fight FOR REAL!
Storm and kitty have never fought.....for REAL
Extrapolation and interpretaion abound.
Extrapolation and interpretaion: If storm can infact control the weather with her mind by way of percieving the universe and patterns of energy she can control, only hindered by the force of her will and the strenghth of her body(canon). In all probablility she would be able to do this, this and that(It may be canon as well. It may be real world science, or it may be both).
You: if she can, how come she doesn't do xyz instead of xyz.
Me: I dunno, Im not the writer.
Storm power is to control the weather with her mind right down to a sub atomic level and everything that comes with that, EVERYTHING.
The "everything" is where extrapolation and interpetation come in at.
Storm arguments are in a quagmire.--She has "real world powers" in a comic book setting.
