New Abortion law, about ultra-sounds...

Originally posted by Robtard
You never saw it and I explained why above.

Still not too good an explanation.

Originally posted by Robtard
That goes both ways, as much as your concerns about manipulation "killing babies... murder" and whatnot, that pendulum can swing the other way... "you're doing the best thing...the baby would have a horrible life". Either is wrong in my opinion though.

Hence why those who have no business should stay completely out of the way. It's because people feel they have a right to be involved that it gets complicated.

Originally posted by Robtard
[I believe in democracy and I am not knee-jerkingly fearful of "Christians"... If "they" try and abuse or pass a law restricting abortions outright; no matter the situation, I certainly will not follow suit and will not vote for it.

Good.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Still not too good an explanation.

Hence why those who have no business should stay completely out of the way. It's because people feel they have a right to be involved that it gets complicated.

Good.

-AC

Well, it will have to do.

I see the pictures as educational for reasons previously stated. If it goes beyond the ultrasound; e.g. "You're killing a baby!" or "It's for the best; the abortion" than that kind of involvement certainly isn't needed nor should be tolerated.

Very good.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
In the land of the liberal * KMC * , I was glad to see one right thinking person.

The law is all about better information.

For a woman pressured by a boyfriend not to have a baby, for a woman who is thinking that she has no other option or no place to turn because she is poor and alone.....

Seeing her unborn child can make all of the difference in the world.

Often times women are "emotionally blackmailed" into having an abortion... hell the doctors tried to get my mother to abort my younger brother because it would be "better" for everybody involved.

I think that if we are going to "emotionally blackmail" people, then we ought to choose to promote the side of it that DOESN'T end with dead babies.

All the women in the situations described above can give their babies up for adoption anyway, so unless they've been raped or will die from childbirth the point is moot.

Abortion "because she doesn't want a baby" is flat-out wrong, and at least now in South Carolina the baby boys and girls who will have their lives thrown away on a whim will be seen by somebody... though it appears from comments on this board that very few hear their cries.

The crucial point here, I think, is that they require the ultrasound before the procedure. At that point, most women have made up their minds. If their doctors or boyfriends were 'emotionally blackmailing' them and they were still opposed to having an abortion, they wouldn't have it. They would leave their boyfriends, get a different OB/GYN. Smart women would, anyway. Or give it up for adoption, whatever.

Women who are coming in for the actual abortion (as opposed to counseling or advice) have their minds made up. They are getting an abortion. This new law is a blatant last-ditch effort to try and make a mother keep a baby that she's already decided she's not going to have.

Therefore, medically unethical.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Therefore, medically unethical.

? ? ? ?

Unethical as in do no harm?

Originally posted by Soleran
? ? ? ?

Unethical as in do no harm?

He means puposeless as the mother wants to abort the baby.

It's only reason is not medical but emotional Sol. I think he's right.

🙂

-FO!!

Originally posted by Flame On!!
He means puposeless as the mother wants to abort the baby.

It's only reason is not medical but emotional Sol. I think he's right.

🙂

-FO!!

I'm not questioning the why, i'm questioning the medical aspect of it.

You don't agree, ok, fact is LOTS of ethics in medicine are questionable well even abortions🙂 So if it's unethical on this side of the table what about the other side?

Originally posted by Soleran
I'm not questioning the why, i'm questioning the medical aspect of it.

You don't agree, ok, fact is LOTS of ethics in medicine are questionable well even abortions🙂 So if it's unethical on this side of the table what about the other side?

Everything is questionable, one way or another.

🙂

-FO!!

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, it will have to do.

I see the pictures as educational for reasons previously stated. If it goes beyond the ultrasound; e.g. "You're killing a baby!" or "It's for the best; the abortion" than that kind of involvement certainly isn't needed nor should be tolerated.

Very good.

Why not just say it? Pictures are manipulative, nothing more.

-AC

Originally posted by Soleran
? ? ? ?

Unethical as in do no harm?

Originally posted by Strangelove
It does no harm, but as it has been mentioned my Alliance and myself, who pays for the ultrasound? If it's the state, then there's no ethical breach, just stupid and irrelevant. If it's the patient, then it's a huge breach of ethics.

I'm still not seeing how it's a breach of ethics if the patient has to pay for it.

I think this legislation is foolish, I'm just not seeing this as a breach of ethics from the medical community.

This procedure is neither medically essential or constructive.

Patients do not have to pay for procedures they don't want. If you force a patient to pay for something they don't want, thats a breach of ethics...unless there is implied consent, which there would not be in this case.

Originally posted by Alliance
This procedure is neither medically essential or constructive.

Patients do not have to pay for procedures they don't want. If you force a patient to pay for something they don't want, thats a breach of ethics...unless there is implied consent, which there would not be in this case.

Depending on how they word the contract signed when getting the abortion, it's so easy to overcome it will never be an issue.

Besides that most abortions aren't medically nec. either nor constructive so food for thought.

But the patient ELECTS to have the procedure.

Originally posted by Soleran
Depending on how they word the contract signed when getting the abortion, it's so easy to overcome it will never be an issue.

Besides that most abortions aren't medically nec. either nor constructive so food for thought.

That's not food for thought, it's a brain fart.

Originally posted by Alliance
But the patient ELECTS to have the procedure.

Originally posted by Strangelove
That's not the point. Abortions are a medical choice, it doesn't have to be essential or constructive. Plastic surgery isn't essential or constructive either, but it still happens.

That's not food for thought, it's a brain fart.

Listen up boys, read my first sentance again, they (the govt) can make it so that the procedure is placed in the abortion work and make it "nec."

This is how it works, now argue semantics because this is how medicine works everyday.

Depending on how they word the contract signed when getting the abortion, it's so easy to overcome it will never be an issue.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
They're not the same, I was being sarcastic.

-AC

I still enjoy fatchicksinpartyhats.com.

Originally posted by Robtard
Fascist... being a little over melodramatic don't you think? Emotional manipulation... are you saying women are emotional wrecks?

See AC's post. I have no idea where one reads that by stating this law is simply external parties imposing through legislation an attempted manipulation of emotions for their desired outcome, it somehow equates to women all being "emotional wrecks."

No one has really elaborated on how seeing an ultrasound is supposed to provide additional necessary educational information; other than "This is what the fetus looks like via obstetric ultrasonography; now do you still want to maintain your decision to abort." Women can already elect to have ultrasounds if they desire. This is not an attempt to inform; it's an attempt to manipulate - to deny that is folly.

Those of us who are pro-life would assert that it is an attempt to save lives.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Those of us who are pro-life would assert that it is an attempt to save lives.

We that are pro-choice would claim it is an attempt to worsen lives.

Originally posted by Bardock42
We that are pro-choice would claim it is an attempt to worsen lives.