Originally posted by Robtard
Prison should be about realizing what 'you' did wrong and being rehabilitated [if possible], it shouldn't be luxuriously comfortable... Things like table tennis, in-room televisions and video games are little more than rewards for those not deserving rewards.The money spent on the fancy tables, beds, televisions, game counsels etc. should have been spent on (more) education, counseling and skill [job] proficiencies.
exactly.
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
You're talking crap.You claimed 'child torturers' will pretend they've changed, move there, play Xbox, then go out and do it again.
That's not going to happen, is it? What does any of this have to do with a 'luxurious' prison?
It's clearly just a hysterical thought you vomited up because you don't like the idea of this building.
I was using that as an example.
There are some people who can't (or don't want to) get accustomed to life outside of prison because they are so use to that type of life on the inside. This prison having all of these great things isn't helping the fact the some people actually enjoy themselves while locked up. This is usually a result of from being in and out of jail for years.
You can think whatever you want and I couldn't care any less. But I think you're taking this a little too personal. If you're looking for a fight I'm not the one to come to because you're just going to be talking to a brick wall if you continue. I have no interest in getting into E-Fights with people over the Internet. Especially not over some prison discussion.
Originally posted by Ana P
I was using that as an example.There are some people who can't (or don't want to) get accustomed to life outside of prison because they are so use to that type of life on the inside. This prison having all of these great things isn't helping the fact the [b]some
people actually enjoy themselves while locked up. This is usually a result of from being in and out of jail for years.[/B]
Wait, think about what you're saying, you fool.
If you love it in there, where is the logic in carrying out a crime that you know will let you out? Where is the logic in being on good behaviour, having good reviews and having good reports if you wish to stay? Besides that, WHY is it a problem is criminals want to stay in prison? Surely that's the point.
You're suggesting that nice prisons make criminals want to be kept there more. Well...would it be just me who thinks this isn't a problem? I don't care what prisoners do while they're in prison, as long as they are there deservingly.
Nobody's saying prisons should be nice, but surely how well a prison functions should be more of a concern than what it looks like.
The fact is, we don't live in the dark ages anymore. As everything around us gets better, so will prisons. Prisons haven't been torturous on the inside for a long time, you watch too many movies. "Prisoners have it all these days.", yeah? How would you know that? Been to one recently? If so, why complain? It's to your benefit. If not, zip the lip.
-AC
Originally posted by Ana P
But I think you're taking this a little too personal. If you're looking for a fight I'm not the one to come to because you're just going to be talking to a brick wall if you continue. I have no interest in getting into E-Fights with people over the Internet. Especially not over some prison discussion.
No, you posted an opinion on a forum. As such, people will reply.
If you aren't keen on that, get a blog or something.
This is still a prison, which means people in there are leashed of freedoms everyone else enjoys.
Happiness does not equal a pool table or an x-box. Thats just retarded logic.
There is nothing ''fun'' about being institutionalised 24/7 for years on end.
Second, people go to prison for various crimes and reasons. To assume that everyone is a psychopatic killer from hell is very short sighted.
People kill and rob for different reasons, affected by their economic, social and peer envoroment, and it is not simple as ''my tax money is being spent on pool table in prison''
Your tax money is being spent for nuclear weapons and wars, and much more of it.
The problem with this is that we have no context at ALL.
We can see exterior shots of a prison and some inmates relaxing and playing table tennis inside. Fine. These things happen in even the most severe of prisons.
Then we have a load of shots of comfy looking interiors. But what are these? I don't even have any evidence that they are actually inside the prison, but that aside- we have no evidence what degree of prison this is; low-security prisons (some prisons are even open prisons, remember) are often relatively comfortable. But how many of those shots had inmates in? How many are staff areas? Visitor areas? Areas you only get to go to as a reward for good behaviour?
People also forget that luxuries are there to do more than just mollycoddle a prisoner. They are there to give even criminals a 'stake' in society. A prisoner's direct contact with society in a prison is the prison authorities. Many prisoners over tim have refused all engagement; content to just sit out their time until they get out, and then they STAY disengaged.
If they have some kind of stake, then they have something to lose if they don't play ball. And you will be surprised how effective this is- especially whern you remember that the majority of those in prison are not hardcore gang robbers, rapists and murderers. Once they get used to the idea that society has a value for them to be engaged in, that puts them in the right frame of mind for the probation service to subsequently help re-integrate them into society.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
The problem with this is that we have no context at ALL.We can see exterior shots of a prison and some inmates relaxing and playing table tennis inise. Fine. These things happen in even the most severe of prisons.
Then we have a load of shots of comfy looking interiors. But what are these? I don't even have any evidence that they are actually inside the prison, but that aise- we have no evidence what degree of prison this is; low-security prisonss (some prisons are even open prisons, remember) are often relatively comfortable. But how many of those shots had inmates in? How many are staff areas? Visitor areas? Areas you only get to go to as a reward for good behaviour?
People also forget that luxuries are there to do more than just mollycoddle a prisoner. They are there to give even criminals a 'stake' in society. A prisoner's direct contact with society in a prison is the prison authorities. Many prisoners over tim have refused all engagement; content to just sit out their time until they get out, and then they STAY disengaged.
If they have some kind of stake, then they have something to lose if they don't play ball. And you will be surprised how effective this is- especially whern you remember that the majority of those in prison are not hardcore gang robbers, rapists and murderers. Once they get used to the idea that society has a value for them to be engaged in, that puts them in the right frame of mind for the probation service to subsequently help re-integrate them into society.
To add to that, the sign say State Court Leoben...which makes it quite likely that the first seven pics aren't even of the prison.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
The problem with this is that we have no context at ALL.We can see exterior shots of a prison and some inmates relaxing and playing table tennis inside. Fine. These things happen in even the most severe of prisons.
Then we have a load of shots of comfy looking interiors. But what are these? I don't even have any evidence that they are actually inside the prison, but that aside- we have no evidence what degree of prison this is; low-security prisons (some prisons are even open prisons, remember) are often relatively comfortable. But how many of those shots had inmates in? How many are staff areas? Visitor areas? Areas you only get to go to as a reward for good behaviour?
People also forget that luxuries are there to do more than just mollycoddle a prisoner. They are there to give even criminals a 'stake' in society. A prisoner's direct contact with society in a prison is the prison authorities. Many prisoners over tim have refused all engagement; content to just sit out their time until they get out, and then they STAY disengaged.
If they have some kind of stake, then they have something to lose if they don't play ball. And you will be surprised how effective this is- especially whern you remember that the majority of those in prison are not hardcore gang robbers, rapists and murderers. Once they get used to the idea that society has a value for them to be engaged in, that puts them in the right frame of mind for the probation service to subsequently help re-integrate them into society.
pray
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
This is still a prison, which means people in there are leashed of freedoms everyone else enjoys.
Happiness does not equal a pool table or an x-box. Thats just retarded logic.There is nothing ''fun'' about being institutionalised 24/7 for years on end.
Second, people go to prison for various crimes and reasons. To assume that everyone is a psychopatic killer from hell is very short sighted.
People kill and rob for different reasons, affected by their economic, social and peer envoroment, and it is not simple as ''my tax money is being spent on pool table in prison''Your tax money is being spent for nuclear weapons and wars, and much more of it.
I agree but let's be honest; few people are sociopaths who do not enjoy random tidbits of videogame action. 😆
You are talking more about happiness which is different from fun. Will that stuff make them happy? No. All people in a jail don't have equal crimes, aren't of the same IQ, and so on.
It's not a universal thing, but I certainly think this jail is over the top since I, while having my "freedom", am not at the point where I can attain most of the things, from a financial standpoint, that I see in those pictures.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
If they have some kind of stake, then they have something to lose if they don't play ball. And you will be surprised how effective this is- especially whern you remember that the majority of those in prison are not hardcore gang robbers, rapists and murderers. Once they get used to the idea that society has a value for them to be engaged in, that puts them in the right frame of mind for the probation service to subsequently help re-integrate them into society.
Ohhh, the incentive argument. I agree with this the most of any other argument when it comes to jails, but it has a few flaws since it can also just make people more violent and like children since they don't get their way. Certainly the best way to look at this I believe though.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How about we keep in mind that it's still a prison? Would that be ok? I'd live in a shitty apartment with all the freedoms of...well...freedom, than in a really nice prison for multiple years, possibly for good.Would you choose that prison over a shitty apartment? No, don't act like you would.
-AC
I would choose the structure and look of the building. Which was the point of my post. The state gives prisoners this kind of buildings for them, when instead it should be given to the people who pay taxes and provide the commonwealth for the state.
Originally posted by BackFire
But why should they have more fun then me?
Next to Ush post this one is really good.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wait, think about what you're saying, you fool.If you love it in there, where is the logic in carrying out a crime that you know will let you out? Where is the logic in being on good behaviour, having good reviews and having good reports if you wish to stay? Besides that, WHY is it a problem is criminals want to stay in prison? Surely that's the point.
Don't ask me, I'm not the career criminal.
But the problem is that people don't want to get out there and work. So they look for the easy way out of things.
You're suggesting that nice prisons make criminals want to be kept there more. Well...would it be just me who thinks this isn't a problem? I don't care what prisoners do while they're in prison, as long as they are there deservingly.
Well so people want "Justice"
Not the guy who killed their loved one livin' it up in prison. Even if it is still a prison some people don't like the fact that people are actually enjoying things that some people on the outside get to enjoy on a daily basis.
Nobody's saying prisons should be nice, but surely how well a prison functions should be more of a concern than what it looks like.
Both should be taken into consideration.
The fact is, we don't live in the dark ages anymore. As everything around us gets better, so will prisons. Prisons haven't been torturous on the inside for a long time, you watch too many movies.
What the hell are you talking about?
I never said prisons had to be torturous.
"Prisoners have it all these days.", yeah? How would you know that? Been to one recently? If so, why complain? It's to your benefit. If not, zip the lip.
A lot of them do.
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
No, you posted an opinion on a forum. As such, people will reply.If you aren't keen on that, get a blog or something.
I don't post here to be insulted because of my opinion.
You're basically saying you can't have a civilized conversation with attacking someone in some form or fashion.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
This is still a prison, which means people in there are leashed of freedoms everyone else enjoys.
This prison (and others) thinks otherwise
Happiness does not equal a pool table or an x-box. Thats just retarded logic.
I didn't say they all were happy.
There is nothing ''fun'' about being institutionalised 24/7 for years on end.
Yeah, lets avoid the fact that they have a crap load of things to keep them busy.
Second, people go to prison for various crimes and reasons. To assume that everyone is a psychopathic killer from hell is very short sighted.
For the hundred thousand time I'm not saying everyone in prison is a psychopathic killer.
People kill and rob for different reasons, affected by their economic, social and peer envoroment, and it is not simple as ''my tax money is being spent on pool table in prison''
WTF
I never said anything about Tax Money
Your tax money is being spent for nuclear weapons and wars, and much more of it.
This is irrelevant.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
[B]The problem with this is that we have no context at ALL.We can see exterior shots of a prison and some inmates relaxing and playing table tennis inside. Fine. These things happen in even the most severe of prisons.
Then we have a load of shots of comfy looking interiors. But what are these? I don't even have any evidence that they are actually inside the prison,
Video of The Prison Being Built
http://www.big.at/NR/rdonlyres/1B87B6D9-E39C-47AC-82A7-246AE5B0794C/0/IntroStatementsKunstBau.wmv
but that aside- we have no evidence what degree of prison this is; low-security prisons (some prisons are even open prisons, remember) are often relatively comfortable. But how many of those shots had inmates in? How many are staff areas? Visitor areas? Areas you only get to go to as a reward for good behaviour?
I don't have a map of the building so I couldn't tell you.
People also forget that luxuries are there to do more than just mollycoddle a prisoner. They are there to give even criminals a 'stake' in society. A prisoner's direct contact with society in a prison is the prison authorities. Many prisoners over tim have refused all engagement; content to just sit out their time until they get out, and then they STAY disengaged.
I think there is a limit.
There's some and theres too much. This is a little too much imo.
If they have some kind of stake, then they have something to lose if they don't play ball. And you will be surprised how effective this is- especially whern you remember that the majority of those in prison are not hardcore gang robbers, rapists and murderers. Once they get used to the idea that society has a value for them to be engaged in, that puts them in the right frame of mind for the probation service to subsequently help re-integrate them into society.
It's not that easy for some people to change. A lot of people get out and start back doing crimes. Them being in there doesn't mean life is going to be all good when they get out. That's not always the case.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I would choose the structure and look of the building. Which was the point of my post. The state gives prisoners this kind of buildings for them, when instead it should be given to the people who pay taxes and provide the commonwealth for the state.
Why should it? You mean as opposed to prisoners having it, I assume.
Originally posted by Ana P
But the problem is that people don't want to get out there and work. So they look for the easy way out of things.
That's just something you made up, though.
Originally posted by Ana P
Well so people want "Justice"Not the guy who killed their loved one livin' it up in prison. Even if it is still a prison some people don't like the fact that people are actually enjoying things that some people on the outside get to enjoy on a daily basis.
Tough luck. Justice is the person being locked away and never getting out, once that is achieved, what they get up to should be none of your business. The aim is to deprive them of their freedom and take them out of society.
What "some people" don't like is of no concern to me. "Some people" would like every prison to be like Auschwitz, but they won't get what they want.
Originally posted by Ana P
Both should be taken into consideration.
No. One should, the other WILL be. If there is a choice, it should be the prison's functionality that is of the utmost importance. Not what they do in there.
Originally posted by Ana P
What the hell are you talking about?I never said prisons had to be torturous.
My point was that prisons will get better as does everything else. That's just the way of the world.
Originally posted by Ana P
A lot of them do.
I will repeat: How would you know that? Been to one recently? If so, why complain? It's to your benefit. If not, zip the lip.
Your replies to me and to others prove nothing more than you not having a clue what you're on about.
-AC