Possibly solved the mystery of the compass

Okay, I've been thinking this through and we all love/hate the compass. There's huge discrepancies when it comes to how it actually works and the nature of it. I think I've figured it out. IT'S NOT INTUITIVE!

This may be a little confusing, but stick with me here. I want to know if you guys think this makes sense.

First time with compass: Norrington pulls it off Jack, opens it, it points to Jack, Norrington notes it does not point north.

Explanation: It points to Jack because Norrington really, really wants to capture this bastard pirate that just rescued the girl he proposed to.

2nd significant time with the compass: Jack is in a storm using it to find the Pearl. Self explanatory.

3rd significant time: Jack opens it at the end, we do not get to see where it points, but he smiles. We'll come back to this one.

We don't see the compass again until DMC when it starts going haywire. Now, this is where it gets confusing. T&T said what you want most can definitely change. This is true. Otherwise the compass would stay pointing at one thing the whole time rather than going back and forth. But, let me use this example.

Say I really, really want some rum, and I'm pretty sure I forgot to get it out of my car. So what I want changes to going to the car, but I still want the rum. I open the compass. Now, will it point to the rum or the car? If I've convinced myself I know where the rum is, it should point to the car BUT it's still the rum I want most. Do you see? So if I convince myself I want the car because of the rum, the rum is still what I want, but I want to go to the car and go get it. If the rum was in the refrigerator the whole time, the compass wouldn't figure that out for me, so it's not a catch-all device.

Now we're going to use that logic for the next compass moments.

4th significant time with the compass: Jack explains how it works to Elizabeth. The previous times with it, it doesn't count because we know he's torn between two things. He needs the chest right now. He has to sell her this idea. For the moment, Jack has two trained puppies here, one to get him the key and one to get him the chest. I won't go into the sexual symbolism there, but he NEEDS Liz to believe this compass works. So she finally holds it and it points straight ahead of her. If it works like how I said it works, where it does not necessarily point to what you want most. Liz wants the chest, it points to the chest. Here it works just fine.

5th significant time with the compass: Liz uses it because Norrington has messed with her mind and it points to Jack. Okay. I'm a J/Eer, and if the compass is intuitive, it will point to Jack because Jack has the information/abilities necessary to find Will. But, the compass is not intuitive. It doesn't assume the rum is in your refrigerator. The rum is going to take you to your car where you think the rum is. So throw out the explanation that it points to Jack because he can help with Will. One of two things is going on here.
1. It is pointing to the chest and Jack is just in the way. It is Liz's own mind that draws the conclusion it points to him because she wants him.
2. It is pointing to Jack because Jack is a sexy pirate king and Liz is beginning to realize it.

You can draw your own conclusions there, but it can't be pointing to Jack for the purpose of saving Will. The chest is what will save Will. The other times after this point are fairly self-explanatory. It points to the chest the whole time, but that doesn't mean Jack and Elizabeth interpret it that way. Jack uses to debate whether or not to go back to the Pearl and it seems to work just fine there. Any thoughts, or have I confused everyone?

Originally posted by willofthewisp

2. It is pointing to Jack because Jack is a sexy pirate king and Liz is beginning to realize it.

Wow, that was great and my mind is swimming. But yeah, I agree.

i agree wholeheartedly!!!!

That must of had your brain squished by the time you had worked it all out lmao!! 😄

I just hope you are right!!!!

I shall tell everyone my little story now...and its VERY close to the jack/liz/will triangle lmao!

I have been with my boyfriend for 2 and a half years.
We are happy together, and we both love eachother very much.
He's kind and he would never do anything wrong to me or treat me badly...

HOWEVER;
There is another guy at the moment (suspiciously a Jack character, i may add...tattoo's, funny swagger, has all the ladies around him and everything...lol) and although we have been friends for about 2 years...suddenly we're kind of seeing eachother in a different light.
The way he talks to me and such...I was actually meaning to ask him if he was as obsessed with Jack Sparrow as i am lmao!

I'm telling this story because at the moment i feel JUST LIKE Liz.
I havent kissed him or anything like that...im not about to cheat on somene because that's just not me...

But i know how it feels to love someone, and then lust after someone else...especially someone who actually looks like johnny depp 🙁 (its true...and thats why it is killing me lmao!)

So if i were in Liz's position, i would know EXACTLY why the compass was pointing at Jack.
The first time it points there it has nothing to do with LOVE...but something about what he said to her ("Persuade me"😉 had really gotten to her....

And then by the time we next see them together, shes talking about wanting to be married (or in the way we're supposed to read it, she really just wants some sex lol).

I found it really weird how MOST of the pearl scenes at one point were Jack/Liz.

There has got to be a purpose for it all.
Jack is not just leverage. lol

So you agree that it can point to something even if you really wanted something else all along?

Wow... Willo, I'm impressed!!! that's amazing!!! 🙂 great detective work there.

T.Maria.... sorry you find yourself in that situation!!! hahaha. wow. i'm assuming your posts take on a whole new meaning when you actually find yourself in that situation. 🙂

I think we generally give the compass more weight than we should. It's a navigational tool, not a fortune teller. haha. It's going to point you to whatever you want most at that moment (and lets check out Maslow's hierarchy of needs to assure ourselves that that changes every 5 seconds), but i dont think that means there are any deep spiritual soul mate hints in that. haha.

here's a problem i have with the compass (one of many.) T and T said there is no transference aka its not intuitive. So let's say the compass is pointing at Jack--- which, as everyone assumes, is because Elizabeth wants him. But when we say that, we are essentially saying Elizabeth wants to sleep with him. right? but that, logically speaking, is transference. Either that, or its objectifying people in a really offensive way. 😉

Originally posted by willofthewisp
So you agree that it can point to something even if you really wanted something else all along?

wow! wat a thought lol🙂 i think it might b true, i hav 2 think about this more............it points to somthing u want all along but then again it might just point to the thing u are thinking about while you are holding it (i hope you guys are getting what im saying lol🙂)

so basically the compass might point to somthing ur thinking about while ur holding it but you still might be thinking about somthing else u might of always wanted.......(i think tht makes more sense 😉)
or exactly the same as b4😄 lol

hope noone has mentioned this already hehe......

I have to disagree with this theory, just a little. 😄

I don't think that if you convince yourself that the rum is in the car, that the compass will point at the car, unless you convince yourself that what you want most is the car.

Ted and Terry have stated that what you want is changeable, so the compass could swing in any number of directions. Such as, if at some point, Elizabeth had been wanting some shade, if she had pulled the compass out it might have shifted from the heart to where the shade is.

It doesn't matter WHY you want what you want. The compass doesn't tell you that. It simply points you in the direction of whatever is on your mind that you want the most at that particular moment.

So for Jack, the compass isn't working simply because he can't figure out what he wants more. He wants the chest, he longs for companionship, but he also longs to distance himself from that same companionship because he doesn't like being vulnerable.

So basically, if you want one or more things in equal terms, then the compass won't know where to point, especially if said things are in two different directions.

Maybe the compass pointed to Jack because Elizabeth wanted to know where Will was, and Jack had the answers. Maybe it pointed toward Jack because the Flying Dutchman was coming from that direction, and Jack happened to be in the way. It could be that it pointed to Jack because Elizabeth has raging hormones and she wants to have sex with him (although honestly...how could she pass up Scruffington? *sad sigh*). Maybe it pointed at Jack because she really secretly wants to kill him. 😛

Or maybe it's a combination of all those reasons and even more than we can come up with. 😉

Well, that's my theory, at least. That the compass just points to what you want most, but it doesn't really matter WHY you want it. You just want that particular thing in that particular moment.

Oh, and ya know...the compass pointed to Jack for Norrington because duh, Norrington wants to shag the sexy pirate. Sparrington forever!!! Or not. 😉

To some extent I agree with you. But the compass is definitely not intuitive. Here's the gist of what I'm getting at. Let's go back to the rum in the car analogy. I can see your point, that it would just point to the car. That's what I'm saying all along. It's not intuitive enough to guess you want the car because you want the rum. Therefore, can you want something more than anything else and yet have the compass point to something different? Forget briefly the fact that what you want can change.

No. It points to what you want most. If it points to the car, it means you've decided you want the car more. I think the only way that would work is if you want more than one thing.

Is there a relevant example from the movie that we can dissect into little tiny pieces? 😄

Originally posted by willofthewisp
So you agree that it can point to something even if you really wanted something else all along?

I agree 100%, Willo.

Being in this situation right now has actually made me think about POTC and sparrabeth and the whole compass thing.

Jack actually states that the compass points at the thing that you want most...
But he doesn't state HOW you should be feeling emotionally when you find where the compass is pointing...

So basically, liz could have completely dismissed the compass and thought;

"oh, what the hell...its just jack and yeah, hes hot! Ofcourse i want him!! But i would never act on the situation because its only some hidden lust that ive been keeping on a low profile..."

But instead, the way she has emotionally gone with it is something quite different.
She's gone down the path that MANY of us go down...the one that only gets you into more trouble because you're CURIOUS...
You WANT to know 'What if'.

But to be honest, i dont think she was emotionally prepared for the way she actually reacted to it.
To me, i think the compass COULD be seen as a turning point for Liz...its the time when she actually grew up and became more of a woman.

Just my two cents...(or pennies if your english lol)
Feel free to say im talking from my buttox cheeks 😄

Okay, I'll tell you what inspired this idea. It's the whole thing about "Is it pointing to the chest or is it pointing to Jack?" I don't like J/Eshippers to use evidence that is no good because argumentative, yet brilliant people like you come along, Surreal, and give them the smackdown. So I'm dissecting the hell out of the scene where Norrington messes with her and she looks at the compass.

I don't know why it's still a matter of debate since T&T say it was pointing to the chest the whole time, but let's go for it anyway.

People want multiple things all the time. Honestly, the first time I heard Jack flat out say what the compass does, I thought he was pulling a fast one on her. I figured it did something along those lines, but my first thought was, "How can someone want just one thing?" So right at that moment, Liz wants to find Will. That's what she wants the most. She uses the compass and it points straight ahead of her...to the chest. This already proves the compass is not intuitive because she still wants Will. His safety is what matters most at this moment to her, but she wants the chest because it ensures Will's safety. So really, the compass is pointing to something different than what she really wants.

Later, Jack comes into play as far as Liz using the compass goes. She is as complex a character as he is, so I doubt the arrow stays on one thing every time she uses it. If it spins for Jack, it should spin for just about anyone on the same complexity as he is, and Liz and Will both do that. So she takes out the compass again and even though it's pointing at Jack, there is speculation as to why. There are three reasons usually given.
1. It's pointing to the chest and Jack is just in that line, but because Liz already wants him, she attributes it pointing to him to mean she wants him. (This makes the most sense to me) Self-fulfilling prophesy is at work here, not the compass.
2. It's pointing to Jack and not the chest because for this brief moment, Liz wants Jack the most.
3. It's pointing to Jack because Jack has all the information/abilities to save Will.

So let's do #3 first. The compass is not intuitive. It's not going to point to the rum in the fridge because you want the non-existing rum in the car. It's not going to point to Jack because Jack can lead her to Will or the chest. It might as well just point to Will if it was intuitive.

Now to #2. Now, it is true what you want can change and often does, but I have a few problems with this.
1. There's no reason to want him AT THIS MOMENT. (give her some time, wink wink)
2. If she wants him at this moment, she's not going to want to want him. She'll be in the same position Jack is where the compass will go haywire rather than definitely pointing at something. All J/Eers have to admit she feels some guilt about having feelings for Jack, so she doesn't want to want him.

So let's go to #1. Because the compass is not intuitive and because Liz has conflicting feelings, we have to conclude the compass is pointing to the chest. She's already convinced herself (well, Jack convinced her, but whatever) that she needs the chest for Will, so in a sense, the compass is pointing to something even though she wants something else more (Will to be safe).
So should she assume it's pointing to Jack? Well, it doesn't help that James Norrington caught her enjoying the fact Jack wants her, so the idea is already in her mind. I would say AT THIS MOMENT, her main concern is still Will. But she is attracted to Jack, has a friendship with him, and has just found out he's attracted to her. So she already wants him, not most, but wants him. And that's why she gets so upset, because she does not want to want Jack. It's not the compass. It's her own mind.

Thank you! I've been trying to say that for months, but never put it half as well.

I've always thought that it wasn't where the compass was pointing that was important, but rather, Elizabeth's interpretation of where it was pointing that held more significance.

Doesn't the compass point to your heart's true desire, or just what you want most? Or is it the same junk?

Have you notice that not even the writers can agree on how the compass works.

There are times that I don't agree with one of them. I love them alot and respect their work but I'm not a suck up. If I see something that won't fit then I have to go oppisite on what one of them say.

Chiki, you are far from a suckup!

Okay, in the commentary, both writers seem to agree very firmly about how the compass works. To quote them, "It doesn't point to your heart's desire. It points to what you want." A heart's desire is that deepest, most sincere desire for something/someone that if you have that, you'll feel complete. A want is just a want. Consider my rum in the car analogy. For a couple of minutes, that rum is what you want most in the whole world. Is your heart's desire rum? Nope. But you still really want some. Also, I think it would take a lot for a heart's desire to change. Wants come and go and are very subject to change.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Chiki, you are far from a suckup!

Okay, in the commentary, both writers seem to agree very firmly about how the compass works. To quote them, "It doesn't point to your heart's desire. It points to what you want." A heart's desire is that deepest, most sincere desire for something/someone that if you have that, you'll feel complete. A want is just a want. Consider my rum in the car analogy. For a couple of minutes, that rum is what you want most in the whole world. Is your heart's desire rum? Nope. But you still really want some. Also, I think it would take a lot for a heart's desire to change. Wants come and go and are very subject to change.

Is it bad? lol 😉

On why the compass pointed to the chest for Lizzy is a little tricky. Was it because she was inspired by Jack's story on how the compass works?

Well, it may be part of it, but let's not forget that she loves Will. IMO, the compass pointed to the chest because she wanted Will safe. And to help Will, she knows that she needs to find the chest to rescue him. At that moment, the only thing that she wanted most was to have Will safe.

Exactly. Surreal will disagree with me because she and I have discussed this scene, but it's actually interesting how Johnny and Keira play it and the direction Gore gave them. She doesn't think it fits, and to a point she's right.
This isn't a romantic scene between them. He's SELLING an idea to her. He absolutely needs her to believe him so she'll use it and find the chest for him. So what does he do? He plays it up, uses some showmanship and it does in fact make her smile. He captures her interest, gets her to believe it, and lets her keep it, which really shows the trust he has in her.
But is he also flirting and is she also flirting?

Jack: It points to whatever you want most in this world.

Liz: Jack, are you telling the truth?

Her face here is a little strange. She's very intrigued by this, yet she interprets his line to mean he's implying he wants her more than anything in the world. (he does but not at this point, wink wink). So, are they flirting? How much does the nature of the compass play into this? I can see why he lets her keep it: three reasons.
1. It makes no sense to take it from her and keep giving it back to her.
2. He trusts her. She's going to give it back to him when she's done with it.
3. He doesn't want to use it with her there. He does not want a definite "yes, this is what I've been pointing at all along" from it.

So as I've asked/stated before, it can point to something other than what you want. And to be perfectly honest, obsessive, and a faithful J/Eer. I don't think they're intentionally flirting here. He's relying more on storytelling/showmanship-style seduction rather than physical seduction. I think this is just how they react to one another and that they can't help it.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Exactly. Surreal will disagree with me because she and I have discussed this scene, but it's actually interesting how Johnny and Keira play it and the direction Gore gave them. She doesn't think it fits, and to a point she's right.
This isn't a romantic scene between them. He's SELLING an idea to her. He absolutely needs her to believe him so she'll use it and find the chest for him. So what does he do? He plays it up, uses some showmanship and it does in fact make her smile. He captures her interest, gets her to believe it, and lets her keep it, which really shows the trust he has in her.
But is he also flirting and is she also flirting?

Jack: It points to whatever you want most in this world.

Liz: Jack, are you telling the truth?

Her face here is a little strange. She's very intrigued by this, yet she interprets his line to mean he's implying he wants her more than anything in the world. (he does but not at this point, wink wink). So, are they flirting? How much does the nature of the compass play into this? I can see why he lets her keep it: three reasons.
1. It makes no sense to take it from her and keep giving it back to her.
2. He trusts her. She's going to give it back to him when she's done with it.
3. He doesn't want to use it with her there. He does not want a definite "yes, this is what I've been pointing at all along" from it.

So as I've asked/stated before, it can point to something other than what you want. And to be perfectly honest, obsessive, and a faithful J/Eer. I don't think they're intentionally flirting here. He's relying more on storytelling/showmanship-style seduction rather than physical seduction. I think this is just how they react to one another and that they can't help it.

I think there's a word for that that I can't quiet know how to translate in English. But I think it's Rhetoric, retórica in Spanish.

It means the art or technique of persuasion through the use of oral language.

Jack was telling the truth on what the compass does, he just added a little color to it to make Liz's eyes sparkle.

Oh yeah, he's not lying to her. He's just dressing it up. It wouldn't do much good to be like, "oh yeah, and by the way, it points to what you want" and then toss it to her. No.

I'm not defending Jack, but Jack had to lie about him not being involved of Will being captured by the Flying Dutchman so that Liz would be his side at the moment. And use the opportunity in telling Liz about the compass, so the compass would for Liz for Jack to get the chest.