Originally posted by Galan007An omnipotent doesn't adhere to mans perceptions all, and isn't limited to the confines of reality, especially a reality it created. If it LOWERED itself to the rules of reality to have an attribute of strength or even form at all, perhaps the paradox holds true. Until then, it does not.
Omnipotent is omnipotent.If an omnipotent being wanted the strength to lift something, he should be able to will himself to have such strength.
So that paradox still holds true, even where strength is concerned.
Originally posted by manorastromanA common mistake people make is trying to put a number on infinity.
not sure if this has already been mentioned, but infinity doesn't necessarily equal infinity. there are strata of infinity. say you start out with one hundred dollars; your friend start's out with ninety. you are each given one dollar a day for infinite days. you will always have ten more dollars, even though you both have infinity monies. ja know?
While it's true infinity can technically start at higher and lower points, if each number set was truly infinite, it would never end.
So while infinity (X) may have started at a higher point than infinity (N).
It is impossible and illogical to say infinity (X) is truly the larger set, because each set stretches on....... Well....... Infinitely.
If at any time for the rest of eternity one of these sets of numbers ended, it was never truly infinite to begin with.
So even though one infinity might have started out at a higher point then the other, this doesn't change the fact that infinity = infinity.
a "larger" infinity does not exist, (in the real world).
Originally posted by JuntaiI understand what you're saying.
An omnipotent doesn't adhere to mans perceptions all, and isn't limited to the confines of reality, especially a reality it created. If it LOWERED itself to the rules of reality to have an attribute of strength or even form at all, perhaps the paradox holds true. Until then, it does not.
But that's kind of going around the question.
If I went up to God himself and he told me I could ask one question, and no matter what I asked of him, he would accomplish or answer it with a yes or no.
And i preceded to ask him that very same question...... Figuratively speaking, since it is a paradox, it's impossible to achieve/answer "correctly".
So logically speaking this would prove against "true" omnipotence.
Originally posted by Galan007If you 'went up to God' and he spoke to you, he already lowered himself to your perceptions so it could be done.
I understand what you're saying.But that's kind of going around the question.
If I went up to God himself and he told me I could ask one question, and no matter what I asked of him, he would accomplish or answer it with a yes or no.
And i preceded to ask him that very same question...... Figuratively, since it is a paradox, it's impossible to achieve/answer "correctly".
So logically speaking this would prove against "true" omnipotence.
Originally posted by Juntai
Starlock, you're obviously lost here. For one, you're creeping WAY past speculation here. Two, the brothers obviously weren't far and away stronger than Spectre and Tribunal, as the pulled the two together. Three; if these WERE the representatives of TOAA and The Presence [funny though that the Presence is also refered to by Spectre as the one above all.], then they certainly would not, could not act against that will, and thus certainly, could not do so to a being that created their omnipotent creators.
Juntai you're obviously lost here
I was lost ?where has this thread gone to?i watched and wanted to learn somthing and all i see is meanigless debates on Omnipotence
i thought the thread starter was trying to see who is greater,and this topic is going where?,looking back on what i said where was i lost,i was throwing ideas out about what the thread starter asked,why not start a new thread about Omnipotence? i backed out of the thread to see where it was going and because i usually respect your view
It is still my view that they were supreme and above TOAA and The Presence
DC and Marvel can write what they want
If they want LT to rebel against TOAA in a story, i am sure the comic wont end in one panel, its up to the writers and staff,it might be pis,or cis,but its there right to do so
Just trying to be fair and open minded, i hope i can expect the same from most posters i respect
Originally posted by JuntaiWhat else do I have to establish?
How can what be done?
You're trying to establish mans laws of physics onto an omnipotent being.
I'm not omnipotent, so I can't be positive how an omnipotent being works..... Can you? 😕
All I can be certain of is if that question was asked to an omnipotent being, there is no way to answer it correctly by...
A.) Either trying to accomplish that task.
or
B.) Answering with a yes or no.
Originally posted by starlockThe thread has gone where it's posters have taken it, as it always does. However what I said to you still stands. I didn't mean it in any degrading way. I was simply outright telling you it was wrong, and reasons why. Others pointed it out too, and also agreed with what I said there.
Juntai you're obviously lost hereI was lost ?where has this thread gone to?i watched and wanted to learn somthing and all i see is meanigless debates on Omnipotence
i thought the thread starter was trying to see who is greater,and this topic is going where?,looking back on what i said where was i lost,i was throwing ideas out about what the thread starter asked,why not start a new thread about Omnipotence? i backed out of the thread to see where it was going and because i usually respect your view
It is still my view that they were supreme and above TOAA and The Presence
DC and Marvel can write what they want
If they want LT to rebel against TOAA in a story, i am sure the comic wont end in one panel, its up to the writers and staff,it might be pis,or cis,but its there right to do soJust trying to be fair and open minded, i hope i can expect the same from most posters i respect
Spectre could not do to The Presence what it did to the Brother.
No amount of Spectre's power could affect God against it's will.
Judging by what Spectre narrated in issue 27 of volume 4, God could simply 'undream' him, and everything for that matter.
If the brothers were above that, LT and Spectre would have been as nothing, let alone forcibly merging them into one.
I don't know how many different ways I can put it.
Originally posted by Juntai
I was simply outright telling you it was wrong, and reasons why.
lol mabey you should start a thredd called "ask juntai"
and you can let all of us know weather or not our opinoins are valid and up to your standards.
why even debate any more ? no need for discution just ask juntai
Originally posted by Galan007No I can't, then again, I'm not the one trying attribute physical laws or limits to it.
What else do I have to establish?I'm not omnipotent, so I can't be positive how an omnipotent being works..... Can you? 😕
All I can be certain of is if that question was asked to an omnipotent being, there is no way to answer it correctly by...
A.) Either trying to accomplish that task.
or
B.) Answering with a yes or no.
It is the task, and the answer.
Think about that.
The paradox of the question is in that it is limiting from the onset. I understand that the question itself is a paradox of sorts. However, it is still grounded in man's perception.
I was attempting to answer, by showing you that a true omnipotent doesn't adhere these concepts or rules, so the paradox doesn't apply to it. If the omnipotent steps into the confines OF the rules, then it is already limited, and we're not speaking of the omnipotent being at all, but the one we've applied our rules to..
"Can God create something he cannot lift?"
If God had strength, he already limited himself to something human perception can percieve and understand.
Originally posted by JuntaiIf a being were truly omnipotent, they would have no limits.
"Can God create something he cannot lift?"If God had strength, he already limited himself to something human perception can percieve and understand.
Even where strength is concerned.
With omnipotence, this being should logically be able to will themselves to have an infinite amount of anything.
And on a side-note, I wasn't referring to the Monotheistic God per say.
But rather any omnipotent being in general, (comics included).
Originally posted by Galan007Well most omnipotents in comics do adhere to the perceptions of the writers and artists, readers and even the other characters in the story... and many of them can probably be beat up by Superman. 😆
If a being were truly omnipotent, they would have no limits.Even where strength is concerned.
With omnipotence, this being should logically be able to will themselves to have an infinite amount of anything.
And on a side-note, I wasn't referring to the Monotheistic God per say.
But rather any omnipotent being in general, (comics included).
How can i be wrong?
If Marvel made a comic with LT going against TOAA's Will.would LT be depowered in one panel and the comic ends?maybe he does get depowered and goes and gets an item or powersource and tries to interfere with TOAA will
The premise is that canon or not the companies can do anything they want,we have seen pis,cis,and down right stupid things, but i am talking about Marvel vs DC i am not saying its right to do,but can it be done?
Your spectre analogy is absolutley wrong, if the writers do it,you can say its pis or cis,but they can do it if they want to,unless your really the editor for Spectre and make the final call when a writer submits his story
I like you juntai and respect your views,but this seems like closed minded thinking