Who better to tier heroes . . .?

Just throwing in some random names

Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe -- minus Ego, Circe, Blackheart, Death Urge, Black Racer, Tanaraq, Nightmare

Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Orion, Infinity-Man, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, Mon-El, Stardust, Eradicator, Firelord, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Amazo, Alex Nero, Wildfire, Rachel Grey (Phoenix II)

Sub-Herald
Captain Marvel (DC), General Zod, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Lobo, Magneto, Captain Atom, Apocalypse, Graviton, Sersi, Nate Grey, Holocaust, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Mar-Vell, Breach, He-Man, Raven, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Invincible, Shaman, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Selene (External), Jericho, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Major Force, Jason Rusch, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-El, Cassandra Nova, Miss Martian, Meggan, Tempest, Apollo, Professor X, Absorbing Man, Graviton, Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), Shadow King, Loki, Death Metal, Starhawk, Lunatik, Count Nefaria, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Juggernaut, Etrigan, Lightray

Top Tier
Hulk, Mandarin, Ultron, Vision, Hercules, Aquaman, Doom, Mimic (Exiles), Sasquatch, Karate Kid, Pitt, Kalibak, Ironman, Storm, Invisible Woman, Metallo, Mr. Sinister, Box, Cap Marvel Jr, Kang, Grim Reaper, Ulik, Living Laser, Zzaxx, Ultimo, Sand, Iceman, Ghost Rider II

Mid-Tier
Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Gamora, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru, Death's Head II, Northstar, Aurora, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Radioactive Man, Modok, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil

Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke Cage, Deathstroke, Spider-Man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabretooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spider-Woman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper, Victor Mancha, Kid Devil, Molly Hayes, Mystique, Puck, Charlie 27, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Puma, BlackLash, Swift

Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nightwing, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Green Arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Shang Chi, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question, Baron Zemo, Batroc, Crossbones, Red Skull

Gonna be banned in a min, and In intend to be but i cant help adjusting this, good thread Leo !!! 😄

As this power set that seems based to super abilities plus energy levels in Joules wielded when (Blood lusted), i would make the following adjustments;

Originally posted by leonidas
Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe -- minus Ego, Circe, [b]Blackheart, Death Urge, Black Racer, Tanaraq, Nightmare[/b] [/B]

The General/Shaggy man is definitely not at this level, seeing as he's basically one dimensional brick, with Super Speed. If Superman/Wonder Woman/ Martian Manhunter/Green Lantern/Orion had all been blood lusted during the J.L.A.'s fights with him he wouldn't have not have been as successful, therefore his feats must be considered with scrutiny. One must also consider that during the Crisis when he is presumabebly apprehended without D.C. earths most powerful characters (All fighting Super Boy Prime at the Time). IMO i would relegate him two levels especially with the likes of Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel in the same category.

I would say the same with Despero, as he has had some low showings that make his more impressive showings less valid. The fact that he has been hurt by Hawkman, Captain Atom, Aquaman (Who nearly killed him) and the Red Tornadoe make me questions his apparent superiority to Superman, the Surfer and Gladiator, all of whom have traveled to the centre of stars at one point or another. And he certainly doesn't have the versatility of the Martian Manhunter or Firestorm (Both of whom are considred inferior). His victories against the Justice League have hardly been as emphatic as Doomsdays controlled by Brainiac, or Superman Primes against the G.L. Lantern Corp. I yet to see any Clear evidence that he's actually that much stronger than a Blood lusted Superman. I would relegate him to the Herald Level.

The same goes for the Doctor, as although he shown the versatility (i.e. Time stopping, Dimensional travel, transmutation e.t.c.) the guy could sill possibly be killed by someone in the street level category, or easily by someone with someone with Quicksilver Speed. Its not as if he has any kind of 'Cosmic Awareness' or Pre Cognition to prevent this from happening, and he has been defeated on numerous occasions throughout the Authority run. Also he has been referred to as a 'Planetary' Shaman. Most of the characters in this section (And some in the Herald Section) work on a Galactic/Universal scale. He's yet to show that he has anywhere near the energy out put of a Star, e.t.c. I really couldn't see him winning a fight against a Blood lusted Herald, or G.L. I would definitely relegate the Doctor to the Herald level.

Validus is in the same boat as Despero, but if this the Pre Crisis version we are talking about (and I presume we are). I think its only fair to put Pre Crisis Superman in this category.

Others to consider;

Ego:
IMO Just because he has seemingly matched Galactus it doesn't automatic all qualify him for the supposed Skyfather level, especially when you consider how well the likes of Thor and Gladiator have done against him in the past. It has been suggested that Odin maybe on the same level as Glactus and definitely on the same level as Mephisto, both of whom have shown Thor to be nothing more than a nuisance.

Shazam the Wizard;
Good showing against the Spectre suggest he is somewhere above this level, but poor showings against Jonny Sorrow and Mordru and a Eclipso/Superman hybrid say other wise. Plus Nabu stated himself to be the most powerful of the Lords of order and therefore above Shazam.

The average Guardian of the Universe (all >Gnathet);
They are generally accepted to posses the power of numerous Green Lanterns simultaneously, but low showings against Pre Crisis Darksied (He managed to clone one without their D.N.A.), Doomsday (He blew a hole in reality but still didn't manage to kill the Beasht, Miss Money Penny) and Hal Jordan, suggest they aren't as all powerful as presumed.

Based on recent showings i definitely put the following in this category as well;

Current Darksied (Gets battered by Superman, but Blood lusted he still has the most Powerful Super power around, the Omega effect to count on to get the Job done therefore beats most others at this level)

Izaya Highfather/Takion; Supposedly all powerful, yet one got killed by Ares, the other couldn't beat a Sun eater. 😕

The Average Sun eater; Self explanatory if you ask me, but their not most the agile beings around (Being the size of a Solar system and all). Have caused the most powerful beings in the D.C. universe a LOT of problems; Takion. Parallax and the Titans of myth to name a few.

Solaris; If you put 1 million in this category u would have to put Solaris in the same category. May not posses the versatility or RAW power of Superman 1 million (I.e. Galaxtic energy levels) but makes up for it with his immense Intelligence. Would give anyone a real run for their money, especially with prep.

King Thor; Never really did anything that impressive, although he had a lot of potential. When you consider that he nearly died remaking the moon, and that some characters in the Sub Herald level can basically bench press the moon, makes you wonder whether or not he can really be considred a Skyfather. Gennis did well against as well. Makes you think, Eh ? 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
Sub-SkyfatherHerald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Orion, Infinity-Man, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, Mon-El, Stardust, Eradicator, Firelord, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Amazo, Alex Nero, Wildfire, Rachel Grey (Phoenix II)

With the additions of Shaggyman, Despero, the Doctor and maybe Validus, i think this category is generally prett accurate.

I would consider maybe bumping up the Current Surfer (Whose obviously had a power increase, and when Blood lusted would potentially be unstoppable when you consider his versatility and Speed plus energy levels (i.e. taking planet destroying blasts as if they where nothing),

and maybe AMAZO, when Blood lusted the guy could probably match most beings in the Sub-Skyfather class.

I would consider relegating Supreme Power Hyperion (Whose is probably the most powerful incarnation), as he's never shown Planetary energy levels and his Speed and Durability is below average when you consider the other beings in this category.

Id also think about promoting Black Bolt to this category, as his voice has been depicted on ridiculous levels on occasions, and his versatility makes matches most others in this power set.

The same with Photon/Gennis Vehhl. The guy has is a n Eternal who can maipulate Dimensional Space. When you consider this guy Blood lusted its hard to imagine the Flash/Superman/Sentry/Majestic/Galdiator or even the Martian Manhunter beating him.

Firestorm has to be a contender for this category also, as he's basically the a Silver Surfer in training.

Also, the Hulk is Herald LVL. I'd Put him at the very lowest, But a being with Unlimted strength certainly does Deserve to be at least Herald LVL. I have no doubt that the Hulk could creme Fire Lord, Terrax, MOrg, and even Warlock if he's in one of his Onslaught, Cosmos Clapping Modes.

I agree with Yahman almost entirely.

However, i do feel that Despero has proven that he's stronger than the top tier in DC, which includes Superman.

To Leonidas

I do feel that the herald level is misleading, and rubs some people the wrong way. It implies another level altogether, where as top tier would suffice without the complaints.

Wonder Woman is top tier, as is Cap Marvel, Teth, Zod and Bizarro. Superman is also top tier of course. None of the people i just named fit into the herald class category, since they're more of the classic bricks rather than scientists.

Firestorm would fit into the herald class, as would GL. The forte of these guys are energy manipulation and projection.

That's all.

Originally posted by UniOmni
I agree with Yahman almost entirely.

However, i do feel that Despero has proven that he's stronger than the top tier in DC, which includes Superman.

To Leonidas

I do feel that the herald level is misleading, and rubs some people the wrong way. It implies another level altogether, where as top tier would suffice without the complaints.

Wonder Woman is top tier, as is Cap Marvel, Teth, Zod and Bizarro. Superman is also top tier of course. None of the people i just named fit into the herald class category, since they're more of the classic bricks rather than scientists.

Firestorm would fit into the herald class, as would GL. The forte of these guys are energy manipulation and projection.

That's all.

Well, I think to be Herald LVL, you should be able to effect massive bodies. I mean like at least Continents. This would put Magneto, Dr. Light, and The HULK in this catagory. Especially since they draw thier power off of extra sources. I don't think Shaggy man should be subsky father. That catagory should be left to people who have superior powers in addition to Superstrength and regening. Like Thanos, Despero, Fernus, The Runner. They all can kick ass and have other powers to offer. This would also Include Orion. His power ampage is superior to almost everyone in the Herald Catagory.

What we should do is take a look at what it takes to be in each catagory. Not just how well they do against Others, but what they are capable of and how much Dmg or defense they can add. I would say that Barda, Lightray, and Herculese are all Herald lvl becuz they can affect wide areas. Lightray can move as fast as Superman and has shown that he is nearly as strong as Takion. People who belong in sub skyfather really would be people like SIlver surfer, Thor, Hal Jordan. They can affect Huge areas with incredible power. And a variety of it. Thanos is a low lvl skyfather. So is GOG. But they can stay. We can just call them the top of the subskyfather food chain. But we should have guidelines then put people in catagories.

cool queries and suggestions by all. 🙂 yahman in particular, well done. i'll take a look at all these suggestions and talk to a few people and see what everyone thinks.

i was wondering about individual guardians as well. are they subskyfather? for some reason i always associate them with watchers which would mean skyfather, imo.

as far as the tiers go: generally, to make herald level, i ask myself: self, how does the character rate in these categories: versatility, durability, overall power/feats, speed. it is impossible for say, hulk to be herald level imo because in an instant he could be battle removed, forced into banner by matter/energy manip or drain, and basically never even SEE let alone touch a herald battling without pis.

bricks in general (captain marvel, hyperion (who i will move), lobo, etc . . .) will not be heralds unless they have proven they are WELL above the usual brick. superman for instance as ridiculous feats and the fact that he has torquasm-vo is a HUGE plus for him in the versatility category. heralds also have feats that extend BEYOND the planetary. we are talking about control of STARS or in some cases beyond even that. any herald is capable of destroying a planet and doing much more than that. speed is also a huge factor in herald levelers.

i'll consider the queries and look at the list again. it will ALWAYS be a work in progress. 🙂

ps--i do disagree, uni, that a single top tier could suffice. in a single top tier, wonder woman and surfer would be in the same category, but no way is she beating him without additional weaponry or writer's help. herald IS a different level, imo. 😬

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well, I think to be Herald LVL, you should be able to effect massive bodies. I mean like at least Continents. This would put Magneto, Dr. Light, and The HULK in this catagory. Especially since they draw thier power off of extra sources. I don't think Shaggy man should be subsky father. That catagory should be left to people who have superior powers in addition to Superstrength and regening. Like Thanos, Despero, Fernus, The Runner. They all can kick ass and have other powers to offer. This would also Include Orion. His power ampage is superior to almost everyone in the Herald Catagory.

I think the Herald level characters must be wielding energies on par with Billions of megaton nukes, i.e. on par with entire energy out put of a planet. I also think they must have a great versatility of powers, and capable of surviving forces on par with the heart of a Sun. Thats why i think Hyperion, Supreme and maybe Black Adam should be relegated as they are yet to really prove they are at this level.

The Herald level, worked IMO, because Superman and co would have little problems against the likes of Red Shift, Terr ax and Nova all of whom are above Herald Level. IMO Current Silver Surfer is above this Herald level, and I think the Sub Sky father levels, qualifies as Sky father, Odin being above all the other SKyfathers.

Originally posted by leonidas
cool queries and suggestions by all. 🙂 yahman in particular, well done. i'll take a look at all these suggestions and talk to a few people and see what everyone thinks.

i was wondering about individual guardians as well. are they subskyfather? for some reason i always associate them with watchers which would mean skyfather, imo.

as far as the tiers go: generally, to make herald level, i ask myself: self, how does the character rate in these categories: versatility, durability, overall power/feats, speed. it is impossible for say, hulk to be herald level imo because in an instant he could be battle removed, forced into banner by matter/energy manip or drain, and basically never even SEE let alone touch a herald battling without pis.

bricks in general (captain marvel, hyperion (who i will move), lobo, etc . . .) will not be heralds unless they have proven they are WELL above the usual brick. superman for instance as ridiculous feats and the fact that he has torquasm-vo is a HUGE plus for him in the versatility category. heralds also have feats that extend BEYOND the planetary. we are talking about control of STARS or in some cases beyond even that. any herald is capable of destroying a planet and doing much more than that. speed is also a huge factor in herald levelers.

i'll consider the queries and look at the list again. it will ALWAYS be a work in progress. 🙂

ps--i do disagree, uni, that a single top tier could suffice. in a single top tier, wonder woman and surfer would be in the same category, but no way is she beating him without additional weaponry or writer's help. herald IS a different level, imo. 😬

But we know with HUlk, he draws infinite Energy, so what's to say surfer won't overload trying to drain the hulk. ANd it's not fair to say that WW can't be in the same catagory as Surfer becuz she can't get the majority. Niether can terrax or firelord or Firestorm. But they would still be in the same catagory.

I'd say that Iceman belongs in the sub-herald level, considering his versatility, lethality, and sheer indestructibility.

Also, I'd say Morlun is mid-tier. Oh, and beast is on the list twice. I'd also consider putting Shang Chi at enhanced.

Originally posted by leonidas
cool queries and suggestions by all. 🙂 yahman in particular, well done. i'll take a look at all these suggestions and talk to a few people and see what everyone thinks.

i was wondering about individual guardians as well. are they subskyfather? for some reason i always associate them with watchers which would mean skyfather, imo.

as far as the tiers go: generally, to make herald level, i ask myself: self, how does the character rate in these categories: versatility, durability, overall power/feats, speed. it is impossible for say, hulk to be herald level imo because in an instant he could be battle removed, forced into banner by matter/energy manip or drain, and basically never even SEE let alone touch a herald battling without pis.

bricks in general (captain marvel, hyperion (who i will move), lobo, etc . . .) will not be heralds unless they have proven they are WELL above the usual brick. superman for instance as ridiculous feats and the fact that he has torquasm-vo is a HUGE plus for him in the versatility category. heralds also have feats that extend BEYOND the planetary. we are talking about control of STARS or in some cases beyond even that. any herald is capable of destroying a planet and doing much more than that. speed is also a huge factor in herald levelers.

i'll consider the queries and look at the list again. it will ALWAYS be a work in progress. 🙂

ps--i do disagree, uni, that a single top tier could suffice. in a single top tier, wonder woman and surfer would be in the same category, but no way is she beating him without additional weaponry or writer's help. herald IS a different level, imo. 😬

See, the problem is some heralds themselves wouldn't be herald level if we go by your method.

The invisible man?
Could see a characters history just by looking at them, but he'd lose to Ironman, much less WonderWoman.

WonderWoman could take a few heralds out, and is likely stronger than most, barring Morg and Terrax.

You could have the top tier, and then separate it between the herald class, and the brute class.

Some would overlap, while others are squarely one or the other.
Heralds tend to be able to do more exotic or energy manipulated related powers.

Brutes are self explanatory, ie the strongest of the strong. That way you put Hulk, WonderWoman, Superman, Cap Marvel etc on the same level, even if they aren't as versatile as others.

Just a suggestion.

Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe -- minus Ego, Circe, Blackheart, Death Urge, Black Racer, Tanaraq, Nightmare, Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites

Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Orion, Infinity-Man, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, Mon-El, Stardust, Eradicator, Firelord, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Amazo, Alex Nero, Wildfire, Rachel Grey (Phoenix II)

Sub-Herald
Captain Marvel (DC), General Zod, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Lobo, Magneto, Captain Atom, Apocalypse, Graviton, Sersi, Nate Grey, Holocaust, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Mar-Vell, Breach, He-Man, Raven, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Invincible, Shaman, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Selene (External), Jericho, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Major Force, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-El, Cassandra Nova, Miss Martian, Meggan, Tempest, Apollo, Professor X, Absorbing Man, Graviton, Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), Shadow King, Loki, Death Metal, Starhawk, Lunatik, Count Nefaria, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Juggernaut, Etrigan, Lightray, Firestorm (Ronnie/Jason)

Top Tier
Hulk, Mandarin, Ultron, Vision, Hercules, Aquaman, Doom, Mimic (Exiles), Sasquatch, Karate Kid, Pitt, Kalibak, Ironman, Storm, Invisible Woman, Metallo, Mr. Sinister, Box, Cap Marvel Jr, Kang, Grim Reaper, Ulik, Living Laser, Zzaxx, Ultimo, Sand, Iceman, Ghost Rider II

Mid-Tier
Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Gamora, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru, Death's Head II, Northstar, Aurora, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Radioactive Man, Modok, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil

Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke Cage, Deathstroke, Spider-Man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabretooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spider-Woman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper, Victor Mancha, Kid Devil, Molly Hayes, Mystique, Puck, Charlie 27, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Puma, BlackLash, Swift

Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nightwing, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Green Arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Shang Chi, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question, Baron Zemo, Batroc, Crossbones, Red Skull

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But we know with HUlk, he draws infinite Energy, so what's to say surfer won't overload trying to drain the hulk. ANd it's not fair to say that WW can't be in the same catagory as Surfer becuz she can't get the majority. Niether can terrax or firelord or Firestorm. But they would still be in the same catagory.

we know because ss has NOT overloaded. he's effortlessly dealt with hulk on 2 occasions.

i don't see diana taking a majority against terrax, firelord OR firestorm . . .

ss is top end herald -- current version may be ABOVE herald, as yahman says. you're still getting caught up in terminology.

anyway, i'm still considering. 🙂

Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe -- minus Ego, Circe, Blackheart, Death Urge, Black Racer, Tanaraq, Nightmare, Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites

Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Orion, Infinity-Man, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, Mon-El, Stardust, Eradicator, Firelord, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Amazo, Alex Nero, Wildfire, Rachel Grey (Phoenix II)

Sub-Herald
Captain Marvel (DC), General Zod, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Lobo, Magneto, Captain Atom, Apocalypse, Graviton, Sersi, Nate Grey, Holocaust, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Mar-Vell, Breach, He-Man, Raven, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Invincible, Shaman, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Selene (External), Jericho, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Major Force, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-El, Cassandra Nova, Miss Martian, Meggan, Tempest, Apollo, Professor X, Absorbing Man, Graviton, Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), Shadow King, Loki, Death Metal, Starhawk, Lunatik, Count Nefaria, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Juggernaut, Etrigan, Lightray, Firestorm (Ronnie/Jason), Absorbing Man, Iceman, Darwin

Top Tier
Hulk, Mandarin, Ultron, Vision, Hercules, Aquaman, Doom, Mimic (Exiles), Sasquatch, Karate Kid, Pitt, Kalibak, Ironman, Storm, Invisible Woman, Metallo, Mr. Sinister, Box, Cap Marvel Jr, Kang, Grim Reaper, Ulik, Living Laser, Zzaxx, Ultimo, Sand, Ghost Rider II, Abomination, Ares

Mid-Tier
Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Gamora, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru, Death's Head II, Northstar, Aurora, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Radioactive Man, Modok, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil Morlun, Blob

Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke Cage, Deathstroke, Spider-Man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabretooth, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spider-Woman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper, Victor Mancha, Kid Devil, Molly Hayes, Mystique, Puck, Charlie 27, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Puma, BlackLash, Swift Shang Chi, 3-D man, Triathalon

Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nightwing, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Green Arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question, Baron Zemo, Batroc, Crossbones, Red Skull

Bumped Shang Chi to enhanced. Morlun to mid-tier. Removed one of the 'beast's from the list, as he was on there twice. Absorbing man and Iceman to Sub-Herald. Abomination to top-tier. 3-D man and Triathalon to enhanced. Darwin to Sub-herald. Ares to top-tier(Marvel version, DC Ares is sub-skyfather or Skyfather.) Blob to mid-tier.

Originally posted by UniOmni
See, the problem is some heralds themselves wouldn't be herald level if we go by your method.

😂

i actually came to that conclusion a while ago. 😄 still, even nova -- the weakest of all heralds -- can destroy planets . . .

The invisible man?
Could see a characters history just by looking at them, but he'd lose to Ironman, much less WonderWoman.

ranking characters like that is difficult. people who have one big power but nothing else are very hard to fit into ANY categories . . .

WonderWoman could take a few heralds out, and is likely stronger than most, barring Morg and Terrax.

i agree -- she could win a few, but in general, imo, she is not taking them most of the time.

You could have the top tier, and then separate it between the herald class, and the brute class.

i'm trying to avoid overcomplicating things . . . and frankly, uni, brutes ARE less powerful. hulk will never, ever be able to take out surfer if surfer is done properly.

Question - Are we to include a variety of versions of the same character?

I mean, Doc Strange is rated at Sub-Skyfather. I'd totally agree if we are talking about the classic Doctor. But the current Strange seems like he is sub-herald at best.

Originally posted by Soljer
Question - Are we to include a variety of versions of the same character?

I mean, Doc Strange is rated at Sub-Skyfather. I'd totally agree if we are talking about the classic Doctor. But the current Strange seems like he is sub-herald at best.

✅ just specify the version. 🙂

Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe -- minus Ego, Circe, Blackheart, Death Urge, Black Racer, Tanaraq, Nightmare, Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites

Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Orion, Infinity-Man, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, Mon-El, Stardust, Eradicator, Firelord, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Amazo, Alex Nero, Wildfire, Rachel Grey (Phoenix II)

Sub-Herald
Captain Marvel (DC), General Zod, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Lobo, Magneto, Captain Atom, Apocalypse, Graviton, Sersi, Nate Grey, Holocaust, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Mar-Vell, Breach, He-Man, Raven, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Invincible, Shaman, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Selene (External), Jericho, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Major Force, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-El, Cassandra Nova, Miss Martian, Meggan, Tempest, Apollo, Professor X, Absorbing Man, Graviton, Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), Shadow King, Loki, Death Metal, Starhawk, Lunatik, Count Nefaria, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Etrigan, Lightray, Firestorm (Ronnie/Jason), Absorbing Man, Iceman, Darwin

Top Tier
Hulk, Mandarin, Ultron, Vision, Hercules, Aquaman, Doom, Mimic (Exiles), Sasquatch, Karate Kid, Pitt, Kalibak, Ironman, Storm, Invisible Woman, Metallo, Mr. Sinister, Box, Cap Marvel Jr, Kang, Grim Reaper, Ulik, Living Laser, Zzaxx, Ultimo, Sand, Ghost Rider II, Abomination, Ares, Juggernaut (Classic)

Mid-Tier
Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Gamora, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru, Death's Head II, Northstar, Aurora, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Radioactive Man, Modok, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil Morlun, Blob, Juggernaut(Depowered)

Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke Cage, Deathstroke, Spider-Man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabretooth, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spider-Woman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper, Victor Mancha, Kid Devil, Molly Hayes, Mystique, Puck, Charlie 27, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Puma, BlackLash, Swift Shang Chi, 3-D man, Triathalon, Bane

Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nightwing, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Green Arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question, Baron Zemo, Batroc, Crossbones, Red Skull

I went ahead and moved Classic Juggernaut down to Top-tier. His power levelprobably is herald but with the listings so far he isn't above Hulk or in the same league as Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman.

Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe -- minus Ego, Circe, Blackheart, Death Urge, Black Racer, Tanaraq, Nightmare, Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites

Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Orion, Infinity-Man, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, Mon-El, Stardust, Eradicator, Firelord, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Amazo, Alex Nero, Wildfire, Rachel Grey (Phoenix II)

Sub-Herald
Captain Marvel (DC), General Zod, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Lobo, Magneto, Captain Atom, Apocalypse, Graviton, Sersi, Nate Grey, Holocaust, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Mar-Vell, Breach, He-Man, Raven, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Invincible, Shaman, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Selene (External), Jericho, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Major Force, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-El, Cassandra Nova, Miss Martian, Meggan, Tempest, Apollo, Professor X, Absorbing Man, Graviton, Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), Shadow King, Loki, Death Metal, Starhawk, Lunatik, Count Nefaria, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Etrigan, Lightray, Firestorm (Ronnie/Jason), Absorbing Man, Iceman, Darwin

Top Tier
Hulk, Mandarin, Ultron, Vision, Hercules, Aquaman, Doom, Mimic (Exiles), Sasquatch, Karate Kid, Pitt, Kalibak, Ironman, Storm, Invisible Woman, Metallo, Mr. Sinister, Box, Cap Marvel Jr, Kang, Grim Reaper, Ulik, Living Laser, Zzaxx, Ultimo, Sand, Ghost Rider II, Abomination, Ares, Juggernaut (Classic) Namor

Mid-Tier
Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Gamora, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru, Death's Head II, Northstar, Aurora, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Radioactive Man, Modok, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil Morlun, Blob, Juggernaut(Depowered)

Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke Cage, Deathstroke, Spider-Man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabretooth, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spider-Woman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper, Victor Mancha, Kid Devil, Molly Hayes, Mystique, Puck, Charlie 27, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Puma, BlackLash, Swift, Shang Chi, 3-D man, Triathalon, Bane

Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nightwing, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Green Arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question, Baron Zemo, Batroc, Crossbones, Red Skull

Moved Namor to top tier. He can definitely hang with the likes of Hercules and the Hulk - and has them beaten on speed and versatility.

Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe -- minus Ego, Circe, Blackheart, Death Urge, Black Racer, Tanaraq, Nightmare, Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Sun Eater, King Thor, Amazo, Takion, Fernus

Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Orion, Infinity-Man, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Doomsday, Binary, Mon-El, Stardust, Eradicator, Firelord, Martian Manhunter, Supreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Alex Nero, Wildfire, Rachel Grey (Phoenix II), Skeets

Sub-Herald
Captain Marvel (DC), General Zod, Hyperion, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Lobo, Magneto, Captain Atom, Apocalypse, Graviton, Sersi, Nate Grey, Holocaust, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Mar-Vell, Breach, He-Man, Raven, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Invincible, Shaman, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Selene (External), Jericho, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Major Force, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-El, Cassandra Nova, Miss Martian, Meggan, Tempest, Apollo, Professor X, Absorbing Man, Graviton, Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), Shadow King, Loki, Death Metal, Starhawk, Lunatik, Count Nefaria, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Etrigan, Lightray, Firestorm (Ronnie/Jason), Absorbing Man, Iceman, Darwin

Top Tier
Hulk, Mandarin, Ultron, Vision, Hercules, Aquaman, Doom, Mimic (Exiles), Sasquatch, Karate Kid, Pitt, Kalibak, Ironman, Storm, Invisible Woman, Metallo, Mr. Sinister, Box, Cap Marvel Jr, Kang, Grim Reaper, Ulik, Living Laser, Zzaxx, Ultimo, Sand, Ghost Rider II, Abomination, Ares, Juggernaut (Classic) Namor

Mid-Tier
Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Gamora, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru, Death's Head II, Northstar, Aurora, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Radioactive Man, Modok, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil Morlun, Blob, Juggernaut(Depowered), Darkstar, Century, Rom, Vanguard

Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke Cage, Deathstroke, Spider-Man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabretooth, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spider-Woman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper, Victor Mancha, Kid Devil, Molly Hayes, Mystique, Puck, Charlie 27, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Puma, BlackLash, Swift, Shang Chi, 3-D man, Triathalon, Bane, Longshot

Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nightwing, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Green Arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question, Baron Zemo, Batroc, Crossbones, Red Skull

_________________

current has the suit, right, so he is always as max? but what about the suit's durability? and once he gets away from water he is not top tier. that's why i didn't put him there at first. 😬

and some good additions. 🙂