Originally posted by UniOmni
Adding Breach to the herald list would be key.
Dominus to the subskyfather would make sense to me.
Adding Traitor to the herald list would be key as well.Lobo shouldn't be above Mongul though.
Dominus shouldn't be on this list at all. He's abstract lvl, multiversal in his power and a threat to Kismet. No subskyfather can threaten Kismet. Lobo Shouldn't be higher than mongul, Ronan, Superskrull, or Wonder Woman.
Originally posted by Validus
I haven't read all of the Dominus stuff but based on what I've been told and the little I read, he seemed along the lines of a Cosmic Cube being to me.
It's weird.
Kismet isn't the equal of Eternity any more than the Phoenix is the Equal of the Source.
The companies don't relate easily, so they pretty much just mixed and matched according to what seemed to be the most similar, even if it wasn't correct in standing.
Kismet is a lord of Order, but she's not even the most powerful one. Do you honestly think Nabu is more powerful than Eternity?
Dominus created quasirealities by taking them out of peoples heads.
I've got the KOTW run on my harddrive somewhere, and if i recall, it was mostly all in Supermans head.
He sorted through the memories in Supermans head to get to Kismet.
Dominus wasn't a multiversal abstract being by any measure.
I wouldn't put him beyond the Uni-Mind myself, and that guy was skyfather level at best.
He was powerful to be sure, but hard to quantify how dangerous he'd be to someone like say, Galactus, since his mental capacities are vastly beyond the ken of most.
Originally posted by UniOmni
It's weird.Kismet isn't the equal of Eternity any more than the Phoenix is the Equal of the Source.
The companies don't relate easily, so they pretty much just mixed and matched according to what seemed to be the most similar, even if it wasn't correct in standing.
Kismet is a lord of Order, but she's not even the most powerful one. Do you honestly think Nabu is more powerful than Eternity?
Dominus created quasirealities by taking them out of peoples heads.
I've got the KOTW run on my harddrive somewhere, and if i recall, it was mostly all in Supermans head.
He sorted through the memories in Supermans head to get to Kismet.
Dominus wasn't a multiversal abstract being by any measure.
I wouldn't put him beyond the Uni-Mind myself, and that guy was skyfather level at best.He was powerful to be sure, but hard to quantify how dangerous he'd be to someone like say, Galactus, since his mental capacities are vastly beyond the ken of most.
😕 At this entire summation.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
😕 At this entire summation.
Okay.
Can you tell me where Dominus was shown or treated as a multiversal abstract being?
Cuz KOTW certainly wasn't it.
And Kismet can hold all the titles in the world. If she's done nothing to substantiate it, it's null and void.
Roma is the omniversal guardian, and i wouldn't give her the majority over Surfer or GL.
Originally posted by UniOmni
Okay.Can you tell me where Dominus was shown or treated as a multiversal abstract being?
Cuz KOTW certainly wasn't it.
And Kismet can hold all the titles in the world. If she's done nothing to substantiate it, it's null and void.
Roma is the omniversal guardian, and i wouldn't give her the majority over Surfer or GL.
It was Kismet's power in great substance that helped defeat Imperiex who is multiversal. Dominus certainly is Abstract in power. All of the Lords of Order are abstracts. To say that a skyfather somehow threatens an abstract being is kinda backwards. And My view of Kismet is that she is certainly Multiversal. As far as feats go, I don't think Death or Multieternity have many feats. Neither do Infinity nor The source. But we know thier titles and thus thier power.
Imperiex was multiversal?
In what showing? OWAW?
Couldn't be, since in that book he was the definition of universal.
Kismet being a lord of order makes her an abstract representative, but that doesn't mean she's done anything to put her on the level of a Eternity, much less an IG wielder.
Abstracts are only as powerful as what they represent anyways.
There's an abstract GL, iirc. Doesn't mean he's more powerful than Hal or Kyle.
Kismet maybe an abstract, but what has she done to validate her title of being multiversal in range?
Hyperbole isn't a proof of power, unless the hyperbole is done in regards to an ultimate power, such as a Presence, or OAA.
Everyone else needs to have something of credence to stand on, unless you want to debate like MB.
Originally posted by UniOmni
Imperiex was multiversal?In what showing? OWAW?
Couldn't be, since in that book he was the definition of universal.Kismet being a lord of order makes her an abstract representative, but that doesn't mean she's done anything to put her on the level of a Eternity, much less an IG wielder.
Abstracts are only as powerful as what they represent anyways.
There's an abstract GL, iirc. Doesn't mean he's more powerful than Hal or Kyle.
Kismet maybe an abstract, but what has she done to validate her title of being multiversal in range?
Hyperbole isn't a proof of power, unless the hyperbole is done in regards to an ultimate power, such as a Presence, or OAA.
Everyone else needs to have something of credence to stand on, unless you want to debate like MB.
PS: I don't like my PMs being ignored. 😐
Originally posted by UniOmni
Okay.Can you tell me where Dominus was shown or treated as a multiversal abstract being?
Cuz KOTW certainly wasn't it.
And Kismet can hold all the titles in the world. If she's done nothing to substantiate it, it's null and void.
Roma is the omniversal guardian, and i wouldn't give her the majority over Surfer or GL.
From what I've seen, Kismet is fairly powerful, but nowhere near what her titles suggest. Can't comment on Dominus, haven't read KOTW.
And if you think Surfer or a GL have a chance of taking out Roma, you're nuts. 🙄 Go talk to Mr. Master. He'll set you straight on that one.
Couple of debating points. Thanos is legitimate Skyfather, so is Tyrant. Dr. Strange is probably up there too. High E is VERY dubious. And if you're putting him up there, you need to put Apoc up there. Both of them are better suited for herald level. Low-mid tier Herald.
Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso,
Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Runner, amazo, Alex Nero, Captain Atom, wildfire
Sub-Herald
Magneto, Apocalypse, Sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Kalibak, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC), Jericho, Ronan the Accusor, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Prof X, Major Force, Jason Rusch, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-el erm
Mid-Tier
Ironman, Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Metallo, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Non-Phoenix Jean grey, Emma frost, Firehawk, bombshell, Black Cannary, Steel, Booster Gold
Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke cage, Deathstroke, Spider-man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spiderwoman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper
Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nghtwing, Hawkeye, Moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Shang Chi, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
High E is VERY dubious. And if you're putting him up there, you need to put Apoc up there. Both of them are better suited for herald level. Low-mid tier Herald.
HE who can evolve himself to what the human race would be in a million years into a Mini-Eternity-like enity and take on Galactus, and fight Cosmic level threat beings such as Chthon (the archetypal Class One Demon, one of the Elder Gods) is better suited for Low-mid tier Herald?
Originally posted by ValidusFixed... dd
Contrary to popular belief, I'm not always taking shots on people.Just most of the time.
Originally posted by Evil_AshI tried that too. 🙁
Just thought I should fix some of the text...
Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso,
Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Captain Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Runner, Amazo, Alex Nero, Captain Atom, Wildfire
Sub-Herald
Magneto, Apocalypse, Sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-Vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Kalibak, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Selene (External), Circe (DC), Jericho, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Professor X, Major Force, Jason Rusch, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-El, Cassandra Nova, Miss Martian, Meggan, Tempest
Mid-Tier
Iron-Man, Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Gamora, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Metallo, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru
Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke Cage, Deathstroke, Spider-Man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabretooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spider-Woman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper, Victor Mancha, Kid Devil, Molly Hayes
Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nightwing, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Green Arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Shang Chi, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question
Queries/Suggestions:
-Apollo doesn't really cut it as a Herald considering the company in that class, and the calibre of some of the characters in the Sub-Herald level. xmarks suggests Sub-Herald.
-DC Circe is not Sub-Herald. xmarks suggests an upgrade to Herald level if not higher.
-What has eXiles Mimic done that would place him in Sub-Herald? xmarks suggests Mid-Tier.
-Professor X is a powerful telepath, but his telepathy alone is insufficient to be considered Herald level. xmarks suggests Mid-Tier.
-Mystique's metamorphic abilities now provide her with a moderate healing factor, highly enhanced natural durability, enhanced strength, ability to morph herself into metallic substances, replication of physical mutations e.g. flight, prehensile tail, night-vision and even the ability to phase through walls. xmarks suggests Enhanced.
Added: Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Cassandra Nova, Meggan, Victor Mancha, Miss Martian, Tempest, Kid Devil, Nico Minoru, Molly Hayes
