Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe -- minus Ego, Circe, Blackheart, Death Urge, Black Racer, Tanaraq, Nightmare, Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Sun Eater, King Thor, Amazo, Takion, Fernus, Stayne, Superboy Prime
Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Orion, Infinity-Man, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Doomsday, Binary, Mon-El, Stardust, Eradicator, Firelord, Martian Manhunter, FernusSupreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Alex Nero, Wildfire, Rachel Grey (Phoenix II), Skeets, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Moonstone (w/ both stones)
Sub-Herald
Captain Marvel (DC), General Zod, Hyperion, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Lobo, Magneto, Captain Atom, Apocalypse, Graviton, Sersi, Nate Grey, Holocaust, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Mar-Vell, Breach, He-Man, Raven, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Invincible, Shaman, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Selene (External), Jericho, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Major Force, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-El, Cassandra Nova, Miss Martian, Meggan, Tempest, Apollo, Professor X, Absorbing Man, Graviton, Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), Shadow King, Loki, Death Metal, Starhawk, Lunatik, Count Nefaria, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Etrigan, Lightray, Firestorm (Ronnie/Jason), Absorbing Man, Iceman, Darwin, Saturn Girl, Nova (current), Gilgamesh
Top Tier
Hulk, Mandarin, Ultron, Vision, Hercules, Aquaman, Doom, Mimic (Exiles), Sasquatch, Karate Kid, Pitt, Kalibak, Ironman, Storm, Invisible Woman, Metallo, Mr. Sinister, Box, Cap Marvel Jr, Kang, Grim Reaper, Ulik, Living Laser, Zzaxx, Ultimo, Sand, Ghost Rider II, Abomination, Ares, Juggernaut (Classic) Namor, Gamora, Plastic-man
Mid-Tier
Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru, Death's Head II, Northstar, Aurora, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Radioactive Man, Modok, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil Morlun, Blob, Juggernaut(Depowered), Darkstar, Century, Rom, Vanguard, Charcoal, Balder, Machine Man, Moonstone, Wizard, Cloak, Kymaera/Namorita, Rage, Black Tarantula
Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke Cage, Deathstroke, Spider-Man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabretooth, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spider-Woman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper, Victor Mancha, Kid Devil, Molly Hayes, Mystique, Puck, Charlie 27, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Puma, BlackLash, Swift, Shang Chi, 3-D man, Triathalon, Bane, Longshot, Falcon, Protocide, Constrictor, Speedball, Dagger, Blade
Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nightwing, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Green Arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question, Baron Zemo, Batroc, Crossbones, Red Skull, Night Thrasher
_______________________
placed a couple we discussed until i get some more info or someone has a real problem. 🙂
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
🙄Obviously Fernus should be able to take him eventually if he used all his powers. I just think the fight was an incredibly inspired match up.
No.
Plas has never been immune to Tp.EVER.
Fire has always been a weakness to Plas,and Martian Vision has put him down in one shot before.He was able to shapeshift into pure PIS for that arc...
Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe -- minus Ego, Circe, Blackheart, Death Urge, Black Racer, Tanaraq, Nightmare, Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Sun Eater, King Thor, Amazo, Takion, Fernus, Stayne, Superboy Prime
Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Orion, Infinity-Man, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Doomsday, Binary, Mon-El, Stardust, Eradicator, Firelord, Martian Manhunter, FernusSupreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Alex Nero, Wildfire, Rachel Grey (Phoenix II), Skeets, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Moonstone (w/ both stones), VULCAN
Sub-Herald
Captain Marvel (DC), General Zod, Hyperion, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Lobo, Magneto, Captain Atom, Apocalypse, Graviton, Sersi, Nate Grey, Holocaust, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Mar-Vell, Breach, He-Man, Raven, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Invincible, Shaman, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Selene (External), Jericho, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Major Force, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-El, Cassandra Nova, Miss Martian, Meggan, Tempest, Apollo, Professor X, Absorbing Man, Graviton, Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), Shadow King, Loki, Death Metal, Starhawk, Lunatik, Count Nefaria, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Etrigan, Lightray, Firestorm (Ronnie/Jason), Absorbing Man, Iceman, Darwin, Saturn Girl, Nova (current), Gilgamesh, DRAX THE DESTROYER
Top Tier
Hulk, Mandarin, Ultron, Vision, Hercules, Aquaman, Doom, Mimic (Exiles), Sasquatch, Karate Kid, Pitt, Kalibak, Ironman, Storm, Invisible Woman, Metallo, Mr. Sinister, Box, Cap Marvel Jr, Kang, Grim Reaper, Ulik, Living Laser, Zzaxx, Ultimo, Sand, Ghost Rider II, Abomination, Ares, Juggernaut (Classic) Namor, Gamora, Plastic-man
Mid-Tier
Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru, Death's Head II, Northstar, Aurora, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Radioactive Man, Modok, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil Morlun, Blob, Juggernaut(Depowered), Darkstar, Century, Rom, Vanguard, Charcoal, Balder, Machine Man, Moonstone, Wizard, Cloak, Kymaera/Namorita, Rage, Black Tarantula
Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke Cage, Deathstroke, Spider-Man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabretooth, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spider-Woman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper, Victor Mancha, Kid Devil, Molly Hayes, Mystique, Puck, Charlie 27, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Puma, BlackLash, Swift, Shang Chi, 3-D man, Triathalon, Bane, Longshot, Falcon, Protocide, Constrictor, Speedball, Dagger, Blade
Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nightwing, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Green Arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question, Baron Zemo, Batroc, Crossbones, Red Skull, Night Thrasher
Added Vulcan to the herald list because he has been impressive during the uncanny x-men arc, blowing up and taking over shiar ships, battling gladiator and imperial guard, etc.
Sorry about posting Drax in the herald list I thought it was appropriate but we all make mistakes 😮
He should at least be sub-herald level. The guy has hurt Thanos.
Originally posted by Martian_mind
No.Plas has never been immune to Tp.EVER.
Fire has always been a weakness to Plas,and Martian Vision has put him down in one shot before.He was able to shapeshift into pure PIS for that arc...
OK this is liable to get rapidly off topic. So I'll end it quickly.
The idea of two shapeshifters fighting on a massive scale with completely different approaches to the technique is an awsome idea. I don't really care how bad the writing was for setting it up in TrialByFire.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
OK this is liable to get rapidly off topic. So I'll end it quickly.The idea of two shapeshifters fighting on a massive scale with completely different approaches to the technique is an awsome idea. I don't really care how bad the writing was for setting it up in TrialByFire.
Fair enough.
And yes it did pwn.
Jonn and fernus better have it out like that when Fernus gets back...
Originally posted by phillipan
Added Vulcan to the herald list because he has been impressive during the uncanny x-men arc, blowing up and taking over shiar ships, battling gladiator and imperial guard, etc.
Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe -- minus Ego, Circe, Blackheart, Death Urge, Black Racer, Tanaraq, Nightmare, Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Sun Eater, King Thor, Amazo, Takion, Fernus, Stayne, Superboy Prime, Resurrection Man 1 Million
Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Orion, Infinity-Man, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Doomsday, Binary, Mon-El, Stardust, Eradicator, Firelord, Martian Manhunter, FernusSupreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Alex Nero, Wildfire, Rachel Grey (Phoenix II), Skeets, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Moonstone (w/ both stones)
Sub-Herald
Captain Marvel (DC), General Zod, Hyperion, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Lobo, Magneto, Captain Atom, Apocalypse, Graviton, Sersi, Nate Grey, Holocaust, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Mar-Vell, Breach, He-Man, Raven, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Invincible, Shaman, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Selene (External), Jericho, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Major Force, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-El, Cassandra Nova, Miss Martian, Meggan, Tempest, Apollo, Professor X, Absorbing Man, Graviton, Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), Shadow King, Loki, Death Metal, Starhawk, Lunatik, Count Nefaria, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Etrigan, Lightray, Firestorm (Ronnie/Jason), Absorbing Man, Iceman, Darwin, Saturn Girl, Nova (current), Gilgamesh, Drax The Destroyer, Isis
Top Tier
Hulk, Mandarin, Ultron, Vision, Hercules, Aquaman, Doom, Mimic (Exiles), Sasquatch, Karate Kid, Pitt, Kalibak, Ironman, Storm, Invisible Woman, Metallo, Mr. Sinister, Box, Cap Marvel Jr, Kang, Grim Reaper, Ulik, Living Laser, Zzaxx, Ultimo, Sand, Ghost Rider II, Abomination, Ares, Juggernaut (Classic) Namor, Gamora, Plastic-man
Mid-Tier
Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Captain Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Emma Frost, Firehawk, Bombshell, Black Canary, Steel, Booster Gold, Psylocke, Rachel Summers, Nico Minoru, Death's Head II, Northstar, Aurora, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Radioactive Man, Modok, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil Morlun, Blob, Juggernaut(Depowered), Darkstar, Century, Rom, Vanguard, Charcoal, Balder, Machine Man, Moonstone, Wizard, Cloak, Kymaera/Namorita, Rage, Black Tarantula, Osiris
Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke Cage, Deathstroke, Spider-Man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabretooth, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spider-Woman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper, Victor Mancha, Kid Devil, Molly Hayes, Mystique, Puck, Charlie 27, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Puma, BlackLash, Swift, Shang Chi, 3-D man, Triathalon, Bane, Longshot, Falcon, Protocide, Constrictor, Speedball, Dagger, Blade
Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nightwing, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Green Arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question, Baron Zemo, Batroc, Crossbones, Red Skull, Night Thrasher
Originally posted by Validus
It's pretty simple. Superman's upper level feats, of which there are plenty, are higher than both CM and WW.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DOesn't matter.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Same reasoning, WW and CM dont' need the feats when they do so well against Superman. Try that again. Doomsday Doesn't have any feats either, but as long as he does as well as he does, then he doesn't need them.
When Superman goes all out against Wonder Woman, she's not even messing with him. He's portrayed above her in every one on one encounter and for the most part, she only succeeds in holding him off. Superman is notches above Wonder Woman. She's not his equal. Judging by the posts in your WW Vs Herald Level gauntlet, where most agreed she wouldn't even get past the first fight, the forum agrees. She's not being added to the Herald Level bracket. I say this with no ill will but get over it.
I do consider CM his physical equal but Superman is more powerful thanks to T-Vo. It's a plot device power but he has it and we're not going to ignore it in this thread because we don't like it.
Originally posted by Validus
Except it does.Your Doomsday comparison is way off base. Superman has been shown going all out against Doomsday and not even scratching him. Doomsday has been show leveling every other hero he's faced off against. When the JLA were getting thrashed by Imperiex probes, Superman and Doomsday were taking them on by assload with ease. Let's not even mention Gog Wars.
When Superman goes all out against Wonder Woman, she's not even messing with him. He's portrayed above her in every one on one encounter and for the most part, she only succeeds in holding him off. Superman is notches above Wonder Woman. She's not his equal. Judging by the posts in your WW Vs Herald Level gauntlet, where most agreed she wouldn't even get past the first fight, the forum agrees. She's not being added to the Herald Level bracket. I say this with no ill will but get over it.
I do consider CM his physical equal but Superman is more powerful thanks to T-Vo. It's a plot device power but he has it and we're not going to ignore it in this thread because we don't like it.
First off, EVeryone with any sense can see that DIana has NEVER went all out against Superman. Try that Again. If She were, And he were going all out, She could kill him as quick as he her. Your being very sexist. He's not Leagues above her as you try and suggest. That would be very very wrong. If he were so much stronger than Her, Batman wouldn't have stated that he is the ONLY person on Earth who could restrain her if she got out of Control. And Superman Himself considers her the next line of defense after himself. IT really doesn't make anysense, If Diana were a male with her same stats, she would be considered a herald lvl being. Doesn't make sense that someone who can tow planets, move at light speed, and have as many magical uber weapons as her is only "sub Herald". As for Superman's T-Vo. DC writers have already stated that that power will never be used again. Also, CM's magical lighting is teh uber against Superman. And can be used in wide area dmg like BA used it. I'm not going for it. To suggest that Superman is Herald lvl and the others in his same weight class by DC definition doesn't sit well with me. AT all. And to say that Superman Far outclasses Diana is REDICULOUS. You dont' have ur ribs broken by someone you far outclass. And You don't punch someone at 8 times like speed without taking thier head off if your so far above them. You know. And the forum can kiss my ass about that herald gauntlet. Anyone knows damned well WW beats Firelord 8 days to sunday. He has no feats that put him anywhere at that class. That's like saying Firelord or Terrax beat CM or Superman for the majority. Not happening. Same thing for Wonder Woman. Here's Hoping the New Idiot writer of Wonder Woman gives her some actual feats to shut this freaking forum up. Wonder Woman Gets one excellent feat in JLA and people complain that she shouldn't have been able to speed blitz amazo. Hell, She is the only one I've seen that is NOT a flash, enter the speed force of her own accord.
And the Runner still has NO feats. Yet he is on the Subsky father list becuz of How well he does against Surfer. I could sure as hell make a list of Feats that make Diana, Black Adam, and CM all worthy of Herald LVL. The only thing Superman has going for him that they dont' is a sun amp. And she is divine in Nature. She has pulled Uber healing, the Godwave, and what ever else a writer can think of, out of her ass. IMO, that is enough.