Who better to tier heroes . . .?

A. People can add new characters (bolded, preferably, so we know what's being added). And tweaking is ok....but generally some discussion should take place first. We're trying to avoid people just making un-discussed changes on a whim.

2. Hawksmoor routinely merges people with cities. I can think of a few instances off the top of my head, and that's with about 5 seconds thought. He's clearly above mid-tier in a city (he also heals nigh-instantaneously from crippling and fatal injuries in a city)...not high-level herald, mind you, but not so far off either.

I"m bad at editing the list. SOmeone add kalibak to sub skyfather. He pretty much got an uber Upgrade from Darkseid. Easily crushing Orion's hand and Using some kind of Psycho vision on Mr. Miracle.

Well I'm glad my system is being used but I think it really reflects badly that some of you went on such huge crusades that you basically ran off leo from this.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Transcendent:
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe -- minus Ego, Circe, Blackheart, Death Urge, Black Racer, Tanaraq, Nightmare, Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Sun Eater, King Thor, Amazo, Takion, Fernus, Stayne, Superboy Prime, Resurrection Man 1 Million

Top-Tier

High Top-tier:
The Silver Surfer, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Stardust, Genis-Vell, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Moonstone (w/ both stones), Spartan 3.0, Thor, Adam Warlock, Infinity-Man,Martian Manhunter,
Middle Top-tier:
Morg, The Sentry, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Orion, Beta Ray Bill, Doomsday, Binary, Mon-El, The Eradicator, Firelord, Supreme, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Void, Alexander Nero, Wildfire, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Skreet, Terrax the Tamer, Captain Marvel (DC), General Zod, Black Adam, Sersi, Nate Grey, Cable (Full Power), Black Bolt, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Hyperion, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Maxima
Low Top-tier:
Magneto, Captain Atom, Apocalypse, Graviton, Holocaust, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Mar-Vell, Breach, He-Man, Raven, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Invincible, Shaman, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Selene (External), Jericho, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Bizarro Superman, Manchester Black, Major Force, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-El, Cassandra Nova, Meggan, Tempest, Apollo, Professor X, Absorbing Man, Graviton, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Shadow King, Loki, Death Metal, Starhawk, Lunatik, Count Nefaria, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Etrigan, Lightray, Firestorm, Absorbing Man, Iceman, Darwin, Saturn Girl, Nova Rich Ryder (current), Gilgamesh, Drax The Destroyer, Isis, Nova (Frankie Raye), Air Walker, Hulk, Juggernaut (Classic), Ultron, Kalibak, Gamora (w/Godslayer)

Mid-Tier

High Mid-tier:
Mandarin, Temugin, Ultron, Vision, Hercules (Mortal), Aquaman, Doom, Mimic (Exiles), Sasquatch, The Karate Kid, Pitt, Ironman, Namor the Sub-Mariner , Storm, Invisible Woman, Metallo, Mr. Sinister, Box, Cap Marvel Jr, Kang, Grim Reaper, Ulik, Living Laser, Zzaxx, Ultimo, Sand, Ghost Rider II, Abomination, Plastic-Man, The Thing, Colossus, Abomination, Wonder Man, Donna Troy, Jean Grey (Sans Phoenix), Atlas, The Human Torch, Starfire, She-Hulk, Power Girl, Emma Frost, Mary Marvel, Northstar, Aurora, Captain Britan, Blastaar, Maul, Guardian I, War Machine, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Miss Martian, Ares (Marvel), Juggernaut(Depowered), Blob, Osiris
Medium Mid-tier:
Ghost Rider, Rogue, Ms. Marvel, Cyborg, Wonder Girl, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Atom Smasher, Toxin, Carnage, Radioactive Man, Bombshell, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, Booster Gold, Nico Minoru, Aegis, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Bishop, Crystal, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil, Morlun, Moonstone, Steel, Attuma, Kymaera/Namorita, Rachel Summers, M.O.D.O.K., Vance Astro, Balder
Low Mid-tier:
Nova Rich Ryder (classic), Deathlok, Speedfreek, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, , Mister Hyde, Electro, Firehawk, Black Canary , Psylocke, , Death's Head II, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner ,Century, Rom, Vanguard, Charcoal , Machine Man, Wizard, Cloak, Rage, Black Tarantula, Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke Cage, Deathstroke the Terminator, Spider-Man, The Midnighter, Angel, Sabretooth, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Gambit, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spider-Woman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper, Victor Mancha, Kid Devil, Molly Hayes, Mystique, Puck, Charlie 27, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Puma, Swift, Shang Chi, 3-D man, Longshot, Falcon, Protocide, Constrictor, Speedball, Dagger, Blade, Swift, Triathalon, Nuke

Low-Tier:
High Low-tier:
Batman, Daredevil, Captain America, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Joker, Hawkeye, Green Arrow, Red Skull, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Bullseye, Blacklash, Black Cat, Lady Shiva
Mid Low-tier:
Nightwing , Moon Knight, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Echo, Misty Knight, Baron Zemo, Nick Fury, Punisher, Ra's Al Ghul, Deadshot, Bane, Nomad
Low Mid-tier:
Robin, White Tiger, , Talia, The Question, Batroc, Crossbones, , Night Thrasher, Catwoman, Black Widow, Penguin, Riddler, Coleen Wing

Originally posted by Newjak
Bumping

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Can you move kalibak up to Trancendant for me? He's gotten a serious Upgrade from Darksied.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Can you move kalibak up to Trancendant for me? He's gotten a serious Upgrade from Darksied.

if I did I would probably just add Kalibak(upgraded) plus how exactly do we know what level he is on any feats?

Latest issue of Firestorm Newjak.

Orion tried to bumrush him, and swing at him, Kalibak effortlessly stopped his hand with an open palm, then bent it backwards and started crushing it, and lowered Orion to the ground. Mr Miracle tried to rush him while he was buckling Orion, when Kalibak used what looked like a variation of the Omega Beams, and dropped him to the floor in 'never ending pain'. He called them "Psi-Beams".

He says Darkseid has granted him "penultimate power", apperently the current Darkseid is on some new level.

Originally posted by Newjak
When did he get this upgrade and exactly how.

if I did I would probably just add Kalibak(upgraded) plus how exactly do we know what level he is on any feats?

The latest issue of Firestorm. he pretty much bitches Orion with Relative Ease. ANd Orion had just gotten thru beating the shit out of STompa. Then Kalibak shows up talking about all this power Darksied is giving out. ORion tries to punch Kalibak. Kal grabs Orion's hand and simply crushes it. Then Mr. Miracle jumps in and says let him go. Kalibak uses his Telepathic vision to pwn even Mr. Miracles Telepathy and puts him in severe Pain. SOmething is going on where DS is upgrading all his servants and I guess himself as well. Of course you know i'm just excited.

I'd personally wait until a little more developes, and the stories come to a close with better explanations, if we brashly decided to upgrade and downgrade characters each weak based on a new showing, we'll never find a static system.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'd personally wait until a little more developes, and the stories come to a close with better explanations, if we brashly decided to upgrade and downgrade characters each weak based on a new showing, we'll never find a static system.

But we definitely Know Kalibak isn't the severe jobber loser he once was.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The latest issue of Firestorm. he pretty much bitches Orion with Relative Ease. ANd Orion had just gotten thru beating the shit out of STompa. Then Kalibak shows up talking about all this power Darksied is giving out. ORion tries to punch Kalibak. Kal grabs Orion's hand and simply crushes it. Then Mr. Miracle jumps in and says let him go. Kalibak uses his Telepathic vision to pwn even Mr. Miracles Telepathy and puts him in severe Pain. SOmething is going on where DS is upgrading all his servants and I guess himself as well. Of course you know i'm just excited.

Originally posted by Juntai
Latest issue of Firestorm Newjak.

Orion tried to bumrush him, and swing at him, Kalibak effortlessly stopped his hand with an open palm, then bent it backwards and started crushing it, and lowered Orion to the ground. Mr Miracle tried to rush him while he was buckling Orion, when Kalibak used what looked like a variation of the Omega Beams, and dropped him to the floor in 'never ending pain'. He called them "Psi-Beams".

He says Darkseid has granted him "penultimate power", apperently the current Darkseid is on some new level.

For one thing it isn't his normal power level and there is no definitive proof to say just how big it was and just how long it will last.

Originally posted by Newjak
So it was a one issue thing so far. Seems kind of suspect to move someone up even if it was a good feat.

For one thing it isn't his normal power level and there is no definitive proof to say just how big it was and just how long it will last.

Here's a CA-RAZY thought! How about letting the arc play out before putting Kalibak in the same tier as Thanos and King Thor? For all we know Orion could shitstomp Kalibak next issue.

As it stands now, beating Orion and Mr. Miracle isn't cause to put someone in that category.

Why does it feel like I'm talking to myself anyway?

Originally posted by Juntai
Check my follow up post bro.

And I'm listening to you Val 🙂

I'm going to play Motorstorm.

10 bucks says this goes to hell again during the night, yes? ermmgrin

Originally posted by Validus
I'm going to play Motorstorm.

10 bucks says this goes to hell again during the night, yes? ermmgrin

I don't pay too much attention to you. You talk too mean. I'm guessing the issue is just an indication of the big power up DS seems heading for with this new countdown thing. At any rate, We can wait a bit to see what happens. I also already think Orion with The Astro Force is ABove the Herald LVL. He just has severly more raw power than Any herald. Unless there are some heralds that can blast away galaxies.

Nvr, quit being jerk-ish. Val, don't let an internet forum make you jaded (also, leo?)

Anyway, Ultron's on the list twice. But I like the tiers we've established. Props to newjak for that.

👆

*** shows an addition. (if this is the current official latest hierarchy)

Transcendent (Sub-Skyfather):
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe -- minus Ego, Circe, Blackheart, Death Urge, Black Racer, Tanaraq, Nightmare, Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Sun Eater, King Thor, Amazo, Takion, Fernus, Stayne, Superboy Prime, Resurrection Man 1 Million

Top-Tier

High Top-tier:
The Silver Surfer, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Stardust, Genis-Vell, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Moonstone (w/ both stones), Spartan 3.0, Thor, Adam Warlock, Infinity-Man,Martian Manhunter,

Middle Top-tier:
Morg, The Sentry, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Orion, Beta Ray Bill, Doomsday, Binary, Mon-El, The Eradicator, Firelord, Supreme, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Void, Alexander Nero, Wildfire, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Skreet, Terrax the Tamer, Captain Marvel (DC), General Zod, Black Adam, Sersi, Nate Grey, Cable (Full Power), Black Bolt, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Hyperion, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Maxima

Low Top-tier:
Magneto, Captain Atom, Apocalypse, Graviton, Holocaust, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Mar-Vell, Breach, He-Man, Raven, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Invincible, Shaman, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Selene (External), Jericho, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Bizarro Superman, Manchester Black, Major Force, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-El, Cassandra Nova, Meggan, Tempest, Apollo, Professor X, Absorbing Man, Graviton, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Shadow King, Loki, Death Metal, Starhawk, Lunatik, Count Nefaria, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Etrigan, Lightray, Firestorm, Absorbing Man, Iceman, Darwin, Saturn Girl, Nova Rich Ryder (current), Gilgamesh, Drax The Destroyer, Isis, Nova (Frankie Raye), Air Walker, Hulk, Juggernaut (Classic), Ultron, Kalibak, Gamora (w/Godslayer), ***Winter

Mid-Tier

High Mid-tier:
Mandarin, Temugin, Ultron, Vision, Hercules (Mortal), Aquaman, Doom, Mimic (Exiles), Sasquatch, The Karate Kid, Pitt, Ironman, Namor the Sub-Mariner , Storm, Invisible Woman, Metallo, Mr. Sinister, Box, Cap Marvel Jr, Kang, Grim Reaper, Ulik, Living Laser, Zzaxx, Ultimo, Sand, Ghost Rider II, Abomination, Plastic-Man, The Thing, Colossus, Abomination, Wonder Man, Donna Troy, Jean Grey (Sans Phoenix), Atlas, The Human Torch, Starfire, She-Hulk, Power Girl, Emma Frost, Mary Marvel, Northstar, Aurora, Captain Britan, Blastaar, Maul, Guardian I, War Machine, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Miss Martian, Ares (Marvel), Juggernaut(Depowered), Blob, Osiris

Medium Mid-tier:
Ghost Rider, Rogue, Ms. Marvel, Cyborg, Wonder Girl, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Atom Smasher, Toxin, Carnage, Radioactive Man, Bombshell, Lightning Lad, Havok, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Box, Booster Gold, Nico Minoru, Aegis, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Bishop, Crystal, Jenny Sparks, Elijah Snow, Terra, Blink, Blue Devil, Morlun, Moonstone, Steel, Attuma, Kymaera/Namorita, Rachel Summers, M.O.D.O.K., Vance Astro, Balder

Low Mid-tier:
Nova Rich Ryder (classic), Deathlok, Speedfreek, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, , Mister Hyde, Electro, Firehawk, Black Canary , Psylocke, , Death's Head II, Vance Astro, Tombstone, Klaw, Ambrose Chase, Jakita Wagner ,Century, Rom, Vanguard, Charcoal , Machine Man, Wizard, Cloak, Rage, Black Tarantula, Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke Cage, Deathstroke the Terminator, Spider-Man, The Midnighter, Angel, Sabretooth, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Gambit, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spider-Woman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper, Victor Mancha, Kid Devil, Molly Hayes, Mystique, Puck, Charlie 27, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Puma, Swift, Shang Chi, 3-D man, Longshot, Falcon, Protocide, Constrictor, Speedball, Dagger, Blade, Swift, Triathalon, Nuke, ***Karnak

Low-Tier:

High Low-tier:
Batman, Daredevil, Captain America, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Joker, Hawkeye, Green Arrow, Red Skull, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Bullseye, Blacklash, Black Cat, Lady Shiva

Mid Low-tier:
Nightwing , Moon Knight, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Echo, Misty Knight, Baron Zemo, Nick Fury, Punisher, Ra's Al Ghul, Deadshot, Bane, Nomad

Low Mid-tier:
Robin, White Tiger, , Talia, The Question, Batroc, Crossbones, , Night Thrasher, Catwoman, Black Widow, Penguin, Riddler, Coleen Wing

added 2 I think should be there.