Ranks for MAs

Stark should be in fourth,he was able to punk some skrulls on his own in H2H whilst weakened.

Originally posted by capt it up
oh my bad totally missed shadowcat.

what about jublee and stacy ( the one that was the wierd lizard prostitute mutant)

Stacy X was inconsistent in her very few showings. In one showing she does well against Wolverine. In another she gets beaten by Angel. Third Tier maybe?

How good are Falcon's h2h skills on the ground though?

List update.

Current Hierarchy

Cosmic Tier: (Universal Martial Artists)
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis, Midnight Sun, Thanos

Uber Tier: (Revered Martial Artists)
O Sensei, Ogun, Stick

Top Tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Constantine Drakon, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Taskmaster, Wolverine

Second Tier: (Master Martial Artists)
Agent X, Azrael, Black Canary, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Cable, Daredevil, David Cain, Deadpool, Deathstroke, Donatello, Echo, Elektra, Eric Killmonger, Gorgon, Green Arrow, Karnak, Leonardo, Michaelangelo, Natas, Nick Fury, Nightwing,Prometheus, Raphael, Ra's al Ghul, Ravager, Red Hood, Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Wildcat (Ted Grant), Winter Soldier, Wonder Woman, Vandal Savage, X-23

Third Tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists)
Arsenal, Bane, Blade, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Doctor Mid-Nite, Doctor Strange, Hercules, Kingpin, Lady Deathstrike, Midnighter, Mister America (Tex Thomson), Mister Terrific, Moon Knight, Night Thrasher, The Question, Punisher, Psylocke, Robin, Sabretooth, Shadowcat, Shrike IV (Boone), Speedy (Mia Dearden), US Agent,Thor,Beta Ray Bill

Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artist)
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Black Cat, Colleen Wing, Colossus, Cyclops, Gambit, Misty Knight, Mystique, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Thing,Tony Stark

Accomplished Fighter: (Little formal training/Some Skill)
Beast, Catwoman, Luke Cage, Spider-Man

Added=Promtheus and Tony Stark.

*I propose Catwoman to go up*

I think Puck from Alpha Flight has some hand-to-hand skills, I'm sure hes got a respect thread here, I might go look through it.

And as long as we're ranking Thor and Beta-Ray Bill, theres also Ares of the Mighty Avengers.

Current Drax the Destroyer seems quite good with weapons and hand-to-hand also.

I don't know where to rank these people but I'm just throwing names out there that others might have more knowledge about!

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Jubilee was a really talented acrobat and good hand to hand but I don't think I'd put her above 4th tier. Likewise Stark I would probably put in that grouping.

Stacy X was inconsistent in her very few showings. In one showing she does well against Wolverine. In another she gets beaten by Angel. Third Tier maybe?

How good are Falcon's h2h skills on the ground though?

weapon omega aka wild child should be second tier.

Ares in same tier as Hercules.

Puck would be in Second-tier.

Ares is a really good fighter he betetr then hercules.

He is,but Hercules is no where near the best in his bracket,and any second tier would mangle him in a skills contest.

Wong - Dr. Strange's assistant, definatly has some skills.

Cleaned up list update. and proposed changes update.

Current Hierarchy

Cosmic Tier: (Universal Martial Artists)
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis, Midnight Sun, Thanos

Uber Tier: (Revered Martial Artists)
O Sensei, Ogun, Stick

Top Tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Constantine Drakon, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Taskmaster, Wolverine

Second Tier: (Master Martial Artists)
Agent X, Azrael, Black Canary, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Cable, Daredevil, David Cain, Deadpool, Deathstroke, Donatello, Echo, Elektra, Eric Killmonger, Gorgon, Green Arrow, Karnak, Leonardo, Michaelangelo, Natas, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Raphael, Ra's al Ghul, Ravager, Red Hood, Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Wildcat (Ted Grant), Winter Soldier, Wonder Woman, Vandal Savage, X-23

Third Tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists)
Ares, Arsenal, Bane, Beta Ray Bill, Blade, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Doctor Mid-Nite, Doctor Strange, Hercules, Kingpin, Lady Deathstrike, Midnighter, Mister America (Tex Thomson), Mister Terrific, Moon Knight, Night Thrasher, The Question, Punisher, Psylocke, Robin, Sabretooth, Shadowcat, Shrike IV (Boone), Speedy (Mia Dearden), Stacy X, Thor, US Agent, Wong

Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artist)
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Black Cat, Colleen Wing, Colossus, Cyclops, Gambit, Iron-Man, Jubilee, Misty Knight, Mystique, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Thing

Accomplished Fighter: (Little formal training/Some Skill)
Beast, Catwoman, Luke Cage, Spider-Man

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Proposed Changes (Votes For / Votes Against)

[Alfheim]:
Kingpin to Second Tier: 1 (Alfheim) / 4 (Soljer, marvelprince, jinzin and I)
Black Panther to take the remaining Marvel Top Tier spot: 1 (Alfheim) /
[marvelprince]:
Night Thrasher to Second Tier: 2 (mp) / 4 (Soljer, jinzin, capt and I)
Elektra to the remaining Marvel Top Tier spot: 3 (mp, Accel, jinzin) / 2 (Soljer, capt)
[Devil Lance]:
Black Canary to replace Connor Hawke: 1 (DL) / 1 (mp)
[jinzin]:
Robin to Second: 1 (jinzin) / 2 (Wally West, Soljer)
Gorgon to Uber: 1 (jinzin) / 1 (capt)
or Gorgon to the remaining Marvel Top Tier spot: 1 (jinzin) / 1 (capt)
[Martian_Mind]
Catwoman to Fourth: 1 (MM /

Comments:
-If there are no other votes in favour of Kingpin's movement, it will be considered defeated in the next update.
-Recent additions: Jubilee, Iron-Man, Ares, Thor, BRB, Stacy X
-I think Wong and Strange spar and train so he'd be around the same level - that's where I've placed him tentatively.
-Not sure where to put Falcon as yet, are you proposing around Third Tier? I'd probably need to see something from him first to be personally convinced.

CannonBall and Boom Boom to Fourth and Third,respectively.

Wong trained Dr Strange in h2h so he's pretty good.

I vote against Black Canary replacing Conner Hawke. Even prior to OYL Shiva went out of her way to challenge him they ended up in a stalemate.

If you're gonna add Prometheus then he has to go higher. Guy beat Batman and Lady Shiva in h2h combat.

I still vote for Elektra to the top spot. In terms of her skill vs Daredevil's I think she outclasses him. His senses give him an edge, plus she's hardly ever going all out against him.

Hawkeye needs to get on this list. Captain America trained him.

Kingpin still needs to move down.

Not sure bout Gorgon. He's so vague that I'm not sure how much of his abilities were from his powers or skills.

Boom Boom? Really? I definitely wouldn't put her above Cyclops, Storm, Mystique if even on par. I don't think I'd put Cannonball on par with any of them either.

Ares should be at least second tier, he is the god of ****ing war. Shatterstar should be second tier. Nightcrawler should be third tier, possibly second (I'm leaning more towards third). Venom for accomplished fighter. Squirrel girl as uber tier.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Boom Boom? Really? I definitely wouldn't put her above Cyclops, Storm, Mystique if even on par. I don't think I'd put Cannonball on par with any of them either.

She's been working on her H2H.

She was able to take 3 superhuumans at once and one of them had just punked Shatterstar 😬

Cannonballs was able to fend off lady Deathstrike.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Wong trained Dr Strange in h2h so he's pretty good.

If you're gonna add Prometheus then he has to go higher. Guy beat Batman and Lady Shiva in h2h combat.

That was because he upgraded their skills,on his own he's a second tier at best.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
That was because he upgraded their skills,on his own he's a second tier at best.

On his own I'm not sure he has much skills at all.

Besides, technically he does have their skills. He just uploaded instead of training

Originally posted by capt it up
Actually his speed comes from eating a heart shaped herb……..

Not in their first encounter. He wasnt amped to superhuman levels and he was making Wolverine look like an amateur and in the second ecounter he was doing it again....im noit sure if he was superhuman in the sceond encounter though.

Wolverine has enhanced senses does his skill come from his senses or his training?

Originally posted by capt it up

Again speed does not make you a skilled fighter……what part don’t you understand……

Yes it does because speed helps you to dodge and counter moves. You cant dodge and counter moves if you are slow can you??

Originally posted by capt it up

I could be far faster then a highly skilled MA, but the MA would still be far more skilled then me…….

How? Im not talking about running speed im talking about dodging and countering which is what BP was doing to Wolverine, which is what you learn in MA dodging and countering.

Originally posted by capt it up

No dodge is speed,

deflect and such is skill……

Ok so tell me how you're going to deflect something if you're slow.

Originally posted by capt it up

Again speed does not make you more skilled. It may make you more effective in a fight, but it has nothing to do with how skilled you are what don’t you get?

Yes I agree but dodging is still a skill

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/skill

1. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.

In MA they actually teach you how to dodge and that comes under the criteria for a skill. Im not making this stuff up, ive done boxing and they teach ypou how to dodge...therefore its a skill

Originally posted by capt it up

Are you an idiot honestly? Spidermans not skilled though. Wtf don’t you understand.

Yeah thats my point you moron.

Originally posted by Alfheim
This is why Spiderman is BOTTOM alot of his skill is from his POWERS NOT TRAINING.

Spiderman could beat DD in H2H but what enables him to do that is not his fighting skill but his superhuman stats combined with some fighting knowledge

If it wanst for Midnighters enhancements he wouldnt be that good either.

Originally posted by capt it up
DP not more skilled nor is he faster. He surpirzed wolverine with his speed. Wolverine underestimated BP what the hell don't you understand?

Understimating an oponets speed does not make you less skilled then they are it just makes you careless during the encounter.

Prove it show me evidence he underestimated him.

Originally posted by capt it up

also the first scanns wolverine came out on top

I'll have to get a second opinion on this. Oh yeah you do know that BP was holding back and Wolverine was trying to serioulsy **** him up or kill him. BP wasnt even taking it that seriously

Originally posted by capt it up

and in the second scanns from black panther x-men cross over issue 8 the fight ends. There is no indecater that Black panther was more skilled at all.

Well on the first fight BP was holding back. It could be argued that if he took it more seriously he could have won. You can see that despite BP holding back he is doing quite well.

In the second encounter BP is outclassing him in speed again, therefore it implies that BP could beat Wolverine again.

Has Superman got any sort of hand-to-hand training? I'm sure I've seen it said Batman has trained him a little.