Ranks for MAs

Originally posted by capt it up
yes and cable was using his powers in many of those fights. Actually all cable did was run away and bishop made a fool of him self would bnot call that stalemating.

deadpool superhuman strength is under wolverines so thats not really that impressive seeing how storng cable is.........

outmanouver x-men? The kid was a freaking amuater he was not some uber fighter. I will finish reading them as asoon as possiable

Cable had no strength in that deadpool fight....he was being turned into solid,immoveable metal whilst his muscles were ripped to shreds...

Cable never used his powers against Wolverine,hell he himself states that Wolverine is one of the few people who can match him H2H,He then wants their fight to remain uninterfered.All evidence points to him NOT using his powers.If he did he could just embelism his ass in a second...

Still shows his resourcefulness.

Reiterating my earlier suggestions:

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
-I suggest you limit the category of top tier to those who have actually been recognized as the best in their respective universes - after all "One of the Greatest MAs" doesn't mean all that much if you're going to have 20 something people in it. E.g. Shiva, Dragon and Bronze Tiger are basically noted consistently as 3 of the very best in terms of skill in the DCU. Captain America and Wolverine are noted as being likewise in Marvel. And those who has proven themselves equal or very very very close to these fighters [b]in skill.[/B]

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Furthering my earlier suggestions:
-I'd probably limit the Top Tier grouping to 6 a piece from Marvel and DC i.e. the top 6 MAs from Marvel and the top 6 from DC. E.g. for Elektra to move up, someone would have to move down.

Comments:
-I vote no on Cable for top, for now he goes in Second. More people would need to be in consensus about him being top, and someone would need to take a step down... in which case who?
-I concur with moving Nightwing up, so that would make 4; which is probably sufficient to move him. I also concur with Ollie, which makes 3.
-I've added Ogun tentatively to Uber... but that's subject to discussion/change.
-I'm ambivalent on Red Hood. MM if you'd like to see him upped you;ll probably need to convince more people.
-Added Nataku's except for Dakon of whom I'm not too familiar with. I've put Thanos tentatively in Uber.
-Added Colossus. Added Mystique.
-Should Midnight Sun really be alongside Karate Kid?
-Need a better parentheses phrase for the "Uber Tier"
-Obligatory disclaimer; probably still off a bit...

Suggested heirarchy:

Cosmic tier: (Universal Martial Artists)
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis, Midnight Sun

Uber tier: (Better than the greatest martial artists)
Gorgon, Ogun, Stick, Thanos

Top tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Taskmaster, Wolverine

Second tier: (Master Martial Artists)
Agent X, Azrael, Black Canary, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Cable, Deadpool, Daredevil, Elektra, Eric Killmonger, Deathstroke, Green Arrow, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Ra's al Ghul, Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Sabretooth, Wonder Woman

Third tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists)
Bane, Blade, Kingpin, Lady Deathstrike, Night Thrasher, Midnighter, Punisher, Psylocke, Red Hood, Robin, Shadowcat, US Agent

Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artist)
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Black Cat, Colleen Wing, Colossus, Cyclops, Misty Knight, Mystique, The Question, Storm, Thing

Accomplished fighter: (Little formal training/Some Skill)
Beast, Catwoman, Luke Cage, Spider-Man

Originally posted by capt it up
deadpool superhuman strength is under wolverines so thats not really that impressive seeing how storng cable is.........

Prove it. Deadpool's never shown a real limit to his strength, and a lot of the jumps and throws he does would take some hefty amounts of strength.

Isn't Thanos better than Gamora? Or is that just because of the difference in general power?

One sec, getting scans on Drakon feats. Excuse the misspelling.

Red Hood i have scans for.

Cable should be moved up,i think i can get Soljer and Sym to agree.

Excuse me but why are Punisher, Red Hood and Kingpin in thired tier 🤨

Originally posted by Alfheim
If anybody tries to move Punisher from second tier they're gonna get shot. 😐

....but cable and Red Hood? 😈

Hulk for bottom tier.

Some of his forms have show limited skill.

Originally posted by Alfheim
If anybody tries to move Punisher from second tier they're gonna get shot. 😐

I did a bit of dramatic restructuring for a more normal distribution, and to make the title of "Greatest Martial Artist" a bit more elite. I could canvas the consensus... but it doesn't seem like anyone was drastically unhappy with it...

The people in the restructured Second Tier; Black Canary, Elektra, etc. are frankly just better than Frank. 😬

Last minute edit: I vote to move Sabretooth down...

Originally posted by Martian_mind
....but cable and Red Hood? 😈

Dont like cable that much, but you could get shot for putting Red Hood in third tier.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Luckily I'm a bullet-timer.

The people in the restructured Second Tier; Black Canary, Elektra, etc. are frankly just better than Frank. 😬

Punisher has beaten up Bullseye and has good showings against DD. (still lost but it was a good fight)

*starts to put bullets in gun*

Furthermore Red Hood owns Nightwing on a regular basis.

*sigh* Punisher goes back into second tier. Heres the reason. Back in the day Punisher had good showings against Cap and Spiderman. In the early encounters eventhough the punisher lost he had some good fights against DD. Recently he beat the **** out of Bullseye, lost a fight to DD but beat the **** out of him in the process.

Writers keep thinking he is just a guy with a gun.

Red hood goes back into top tier because he keeps beating up Nightwing. Im considering putting Black Panther back into top tier but im going to talka to Apolloknight about it. Night Thrasher may have to be moved up as well.

Suggested heirarchy:

Cosmic tier: (Universal Martial Artists)
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis, Midnight Sun

Uber tier: (Better than the greatest martial artists)
Gorgon, Ogun, Stick, Thanos

Top tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Taskmaster, Wolverine, Red Hood

Second tier: (Master Martial Artists)
Agent X, Azrael, Black Canary, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Cable, Deadpool, Daredevil, Elektra, Eric Killmonger, Deathstroke, Green Arrow, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Ra's al Ghul, Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Sabretooth, Wonder Woman, Punisher

Third tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists)
Bane, Blade, Kingpin, Lady Deathstrike, Night Thrasher, Midnighter, Psylocke,Robin, Shadowcat, US Agent

Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artist)
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Black Cat, Colleen Wing, Colossus, Cyclops, Misty Knight, Mystique, The Question, Storm, Thing

Accomplished fighter: (Little formal training/Some Skill)
Beast, Catwoman, Luke Cage, Spider-Man

I'd say keep Black Panther with Azrael. While they are both phenominal martial artists, a lot of their combat skill comes from the fact that they are faster, stronger and have overall superior physiology than a normal human being.

Red Hood does not keep beating up Nightwing.

They had a couple of brief fights in the Nightwing series, but it was stated on panel Nightwing was holding back, in the Outsiders Nightwing beat him and had him pinned against the wall so Red Hood had to pull out a gun to save himself, and well the thing from Nightwing: Year One when Jason was Robin is a horrible example.

First off, I'm going to state that Ollie's bow fire at approx. 340 FPS, which is 230 MPH. I'd guestimate Connor to be at around 320 FPS and Speedy 300.

Drakon's first appearance.

Drakon's first encounter with Green Arrow, who he was not expecting.

Drakon fighting Speedy and Connor Hawke

Drakon meets up with Connor 1 on 1 after surviving a building exploding on him.

Drakon beating the shit out of Arsenal after both were thrown out of a truck that Arsenal blew up.

Originally posted by Wally West
Red Hood does not keep beating up Nightwing.

They had a couple of brief fights in the Nightwing series, but it was stated on panel Nightwing was holding back, in the Outsiders Nightwing beat him and had him pinned against the wall so Red Hood had to pull out a gun to save himself, and well the thing from Nightwing: Year One when Jason was Robin is a horrible example.

I've been to The Jason Todd respect thread. The consensus is that Jason is better than Nightwing. Not gonna argue with you.

There are plenty of other examples of Jason beating up Nightwing it was discussed and I cant see what you brought to the table.

How good is Connor Hawke supposed to be?

Well if you've been to that respect thread you've just seen one-sided, biased descriptions of what happened. Nightwing was said to be deliberately holding back against Jason, but the scan that was said in was never posted. And even if you pretend he wasn't holding back, in none of their fights did Jason own him or prove he was decisevly better.

Like I've already pointed out, Jason needed to pull out a gun on Nightwing in the Outsiders after Nightwing had pinned him against the wall, how does needing to rely on a gun prove he is a better martial artist, which is the point of this thread?

Jason certainly isn't in the very top tier of martial arts like Lady Shiva, Connor Hawke and Batgirl.

Originally posted by Alfheim
How good is Connor Hawke supposed to be?

One of the best martial artists in the world.