Ranks for MAs

Originally posted by Alfheim
....what that got to do with anything? He didnt, they fought H2H and Wolverine could have stabbed him in the head. It could be argued that the reason why DP brought the gun in this instance is because he didnt want to go the distance.

It has a lot to do with it. Deadpool was obviously ****ing around, which is he known to do. If he had gone into the fight simply to win he would've just shot him, but he wanted to screw with Wolverine. Wolverine wasn't having it so Deadpool got serious and ended the fight as soon as he realized this.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
It has a lot to do with it. Deadpool was obviously ****ing around, which is he known to do.

Even when DPs serious he **** around. He always fights like that regardless. Hell when he was running for his like from Ajax he was still cracking jokes.

Originally posted by Nataku8188

If he had gone into the fight simply to win he would've just shot him, but he wanted to screw with Wolverine.

DP screws with everybody its not specific to Wolverine.

Originally posted by Nataku8188

Wolverine wasn't having it so Deadpool got serious and ended the fight as soon as he realized this.

Right so instead of DP finishing off Wolverine H2H he decides to pull out a tranq gun and this doesnt mean that he didnt want to go the distance?

If you fight somebody and you pull out a gun that means you dont want to fight H2H.

Deadpool himself says in that panel that he's done playing around. He wasn't being serious, he got tired of joking around and dropped with the Tranqs.

Where would people place Shroud?

What's he done...? also I'm out of the loop on what the Wolverine- Deadpool-Taskmaster deal is... what change exactly is a vote being proposed for?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What's he done...?

*shrugs* That's why I'm asking, I just hear on other boards he is a very skilled martial artist.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Deadpool himself says in that panel that he's done playing around. He wasn't being serious, he got tired of joking around

Yes I know he did but the problem is that he always plays around. Now heres the thing whenever DP fights he plays around but the difference is his intent. I see what your saying eventhough he was ****ing around his intention though is that he wasnt trying to win.

Originally posted by Nataku8188

and dropped with the Tranqs.

You are still ignoring the relevance of the tranq gun. People dont bring guns to fist fights becuase they think they are going to win using fists. It could well be argued at the very least that if it had gone to H2H it would have been a very close fight. If he thought he could win easily obvously he would not have brought the gun.

It has also been stated in Wolverine comics when Wolverine lost his adamantuim he became alot sloppier, so that could explain why Wolverines did so badly against DP.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What's he done...?

Not proposing where hes going to go but im going to try to get the ball rolling a bit. He had no problem using his MA to KO one of the power bokers bodyguards they are class 10, bot sure if it was actually KO but it looked like it hurt alor and went flying off a balcony. He doesnt have superhuman strength but I thinkhe would at least at his strength level need to have third tier MA to do that.

He has fought Scoprion before cant remember the details exactly maybe somebody can fill in the details.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes I know he did but the problem is that he always plays around. Now heres the thing whenever DP fights he plays around but the difference is his intent. I see what your saying eventhough he was ****ing around his intention though is that he wasnt trying to win.

You are still ignoring the relevance of the tranq gun. People dont bring guns to fist fights becuase they think they are going to win using fists. It could well be argued at the very least that if it had gone to H2H it would have been a very close fight. If he thought he could win easily obvously he would not have brought the gun.

It has also been stated in Wolverine comics when Wolverine lost his adamantuim he became alot sloppier, so that could explain why Wolverines did so badly against DP.

Deadpool knows it's near impossible to render Wolverine inop via h2h combat so he brought a tranq gun, not because he thought he couldn't win. Shit, after he impaled him through the lungs, Wolverine got back up and went after him, and that was when his healing factor was fubar. Deadpool's not stupid.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Deadpool knows it's near impossible to render Wolverine inop via h2h combat so he brought a tranq gun, not because he thought he couldn't win. Shit, after he impaled him through the lungs, Wolverine got back up and went after him, and that was when his healing factor was fubar. Deadpool's not stupid.

Fair enough but it states in Wolverine issue 123 that ever since Wolverine lost his adamantuim that he'd been on a downward spiral, so that could explain the dissmal performance by Wolverine.

MK to second tier. 😐

Haven't updated in a bit. Added a bunch of characters, suggestions on their placement, too high/low, should they be there at all?

I'm still not sure what change exactly is being proposed in the Deadpool debate.

Current Hierarchy [191]

Cosmic Tier: (Transcendent Martial Artists) [3]
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis

Uber Tier: (Unearthly Martial Artists) [10]
Adam Warlock, Captain Mar-Vell, Kirigi (DC), Mandarin, Moondragon, O-Sensei, Ogun, Stick, Temugin, Thanos

Top Tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉 [18]
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Black Canary, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, Taskmaster, Wolverine

Second Tier: (Master Martial Artists) [58]
Agent X, Artemis, Azrael, Backlash, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Cable, Champion of the Universe, Cheshire, Crossbones, Daken, David Cain, Deadpool, Deathstroke, Domino, Donatello, Echo, Eric Killmonger, Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Green Arrow, Grifter, Hawkman, Jason Blood, Judomaster (Hadley Jagger), Karnak, Lady Deathstrike, Leonardo, Magnus, Merlyn (DC), Michaelangelo, Midnight Sun, Mr Sensitive, Natas, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Nomad, Orion, Ozymandias (DC), Prometheus, Puck, Ra's al Ghul, Raphael, Ravager, Red Hood, Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Steel Serpent, Stone, Talia al Ghul, Twelve Brothers in Silk, White Tiger (Angela del Toro), Wildcat (Ted Grant), Winter Soldier, Wonder Woman, Vandal Savage, X-23, Zealot

Third Tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists) [65]
Ares (Marvel), Arsenal, Bane, Beta Ray Bill, Black Bolt, Black Cat, Black Knight (Dane Whitman), Blade, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Colleen Wing, Damian Wayne, Doctor Mid-Nite, Doctor Strange, Donna Troy, Drax, Duke(GI Joe), Grendel (Hunter Rose), Hawkeye, Heavy Duty(GI Joe), Hercules, Hippolyta, Huntress, Katana, KGBeast, Kingpin, Lady Vic, Lobo, Loki, Matsu'o Tsurayaba, Midnighter, Mister America (Tex Thomson), Mister Terrific, Mockingbird, Moon Knight, Mystique, Namor, Night Thrasher, Nightcrawler, Omega Red, Onyx, Prodigy, Psylocke, Punisher, The Question, Revanche, Robin (Tim Drake), Sage, Sabretooth, Shadowcat, Shatterstar, Shrike IV (Boone), Speedy (Mia Dearden), Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), Stacy X, Terry McGinnis, Thena, Thor, Typhoid Mary, US Agent, V, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wild Child, Wong, Yukio

Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artists) [37]
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Batwoman, Beast, Blink, Blue Devil, Boom Boom, Cannonball, Carol Danvers, Catwoman, Colossus, Cyclops, Danielle Moonstar, Deathbird, Falcon, Gambit, Hawkgirl, Invisible Woman, Iron Man, Jamie Madrox, Joker, Jubilee, Luke Cage, Mister Fantastic, Misty Knight, Nite Owl II, Rorschach, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Strong Guy, Superman, Tarantula, Thing, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wonder Man, Zauriel

-----------------------------------

Proposed Changes (Votes For / Votes Against)
Cable to third: 4 [V, jrod, llag, Trickster] / 6 [Nataku, Smurph, MM, Soljer, Capt, Accel]
Duke to second: 1 [capt] / 1 [llag]
Heavy Duty to second: 1 [capt] / 1 [llag]
Hercules to second: 4 [V, llag, Trickster, MM] / 6 [Me, Soljer, FM, Smurph, Capt, Accel]
Jubilee to third 2 [Smurph, Cresh] / 2 [llag, Nataku]
Kingpin to second: 5 [V, jrod, srank, capt, Accel] / 6 [Me, Soljer, llag, Macoy, Smurph, Nataku]
Mantis down to uber: 4 [DD1, Srank, llag, Accel] / 6 [Nataku, bran, Smurph, dg, MM, Soljer]
Moon Knight to second: 1 [Alfheim] /

Changes passed/defeated:
Warlock to uber: 5 [Soljer, V, Smurph, bran, ll] / 2 [srank, Accel]
Stick to replace Taskmaster: 1 [capt] / 5 [Nataku, Soljer, Smurph, MM, llagrok]
Stick to replace Shen Kuei: 1 [capt] / 5 [llagrok, Nataku, Soljer, Smurph, MM]

If there are no more votes before the next update, the Cable, Hercules and Mantis votes will be defeated.

-----------------------------

Additions:
Erik Killmonger, Hippolyta, Artemis, Deathbird, Prodigy, Dani Moonstar, Viper, Nomad, Sage

-----------------------------

Notes:
-Could people please vote on the existing proposed changes instead of making suggestions for others, as I don't think any more should be added until that list is cut down.

-The last tier has been dissolved. If you think a character that has been dropped should be re-added or a character that has been retained be removed then suggestions are welcome.

-We have two 'non marvel/dc top tier' spots (currently occupied by Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow).
NB The top tier are ~10% of the total hierarchy top tier and under. The bulk of the list are Marvel and DC so the bulk of the top tier spots go to Marvel and DC.
Feel free to make nominations, or vote for Zealot or any other character that is neither marvel nor DC to supplant these two spots.
-GI Joe - leave 'em or remove 'em?

-I'll reiterate what Soljer posted: If you feel a character should be moved up or down, please do me the favor of actually stating such, so that I do not have to guess intentions. For example, Capt mentioning "Jubilee has been trained by a top tier fighter" may imply he supports the move, but it's hard to tell.

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against mk to second

Originally posted by Battlehammer
against mk to second

I agree.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Deadpool knows it's near impossible to render Wolverine inop via h2h combat so he brought a tranq gun, not because he thought he couldn't win. Shit, after he impaled him through the lungs, Wolverine got back up and went after him, and that was when his healing factor was fubar. Deadpool's not stupid.

almost any encounter between the two DP is out fought in melee confrontation.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
against mk to second

On what grounds?

Even Shang Chi was impressed with his skills. Hell, MK has even gotten the better of Nick Fury [and he is second tier]. So really makes no sense to be against the bump

Originally posted by King_Mungi
On what grounds?

Even Shang Chi was impressed with his skills. Hell, MK has even gotten the better of Nick Fury [and he is second tier]. So really makes no sense to be against the bump

on the grounds he not second tier material.

doing well again one second tier does not make you second tier. It repeated feats and exknolwedgement.

shang-chi been impressed with many individuals skills. Being impressed with some one does not make then 2nd tier. Also shang-chi seems to be impressed rather easily if not mistaken he stated similar comments with many individuals and teammates he ahs worked with oevr the years.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
on the grounds he not second tier material.

doing well again one second tier does not make you second tier. It repeated feats and exknolwedgement.

shang-chi been impressed with many individuals skills. Being impressed with some one does not make then 2nd tier. Also shang-chi seems to be impressed rather easily if not mistaken he stated similar comments with many individuals and teammates he ahs worked with oevr the years.

Errr? He has feats that put him at that level, well considering you said Kitty had more fighting experience then him I'm not suprized you would say that really 😬

Yeah and he beat him handly [Nick Fury], he also took on US Agent, Weapon Omega, Wolverine at the same time and had the advantage. He was easily beating Zaran a foe Shang-Chi has only beat and he struggles against him.

Considering he said his near equal, like who? Like basically your saying the likes of Wildcat is more skilled in martial arts then Moon Knight? *snickers*
====
MK was a solider of fortune, a mercenary, veteran of three American wars, was in 5 South American revolutions, had involvement with the C.I.A., versatile in all martial arts including savate and hopkido, ex-prizefighter, marine commander, expert in pressure points and was said to have "mastered virtually every weapon devised by man".

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Errr? He has feats that put him at that level, well considering you said Kitty had more fighting experience then him I'm not suprized you would say that really 😬

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yeah and he beat him handly [Nick Fury],

not what I saw. It looked pritty dam even and the fight was never finished.

It seemed as though moon knight had a rather large strength and prehaps durability advantage

Originally posted by King_Mungi
he also took on US Agent, Weapon Omega, Wolverine at the same time and had the advantage.

he dident fight them at the same time.

it was during moon knights own comic tie in to the infinity war. All he did was get slashed by logan and throw him that was it........

spiderman has down similar things and he no 2nd tier fighter.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Considering he said his near equal, like who? Like basically your saying the likes of Wildcat is more skilled in martial arts then Moon Knight? *snickers*

Originally posted by King_Mungi
====
MK was a solider of fortune, a mercenary, veteran of three American wars, was in 5 South American revolutions, had involvement with the C.I.A., versatile in all martial arts including savate and hopkido, ex-prizefighter, marine commander, expert in pressure points and was said to have "mastered virtually every weapon devised by man".

Originally posted by Battlehammer
funny thing is it really not that out ragous. Kitty was granted experience well beyond her years by Ogun if memory serves me giving he loads of expereince beyond most of marvel fighters.

What do you think Khonshu did for Moon Knight? Also no it is outragous to say she has more fighting experience then him

Originally posted by Battlehammer

not what I saw. It looked pritty dam even and the fight was never finished.

You would be wrong as Moon Knight was on a roll getting multiple blows in and the people watching even commented "Hey Fury is taking it hard" and forced him to flee

Originally posted by Battlehammer
It seemed as though moon knight had a rather large strength and prehaps durability advantage

he dident fight them at the same time.

it was during moon knights own comic tie in to the infinity war. All he did was get slashed by logan and throw him that was it........

spiderman has down similar things and he no 2nd tier fighter.

Errrr? USAgent and Weapon Omega didn't even physically hit them. He schooled them with a bo-staff

Errr? Yes he did. He was taking on Weapon Omega and US Agent at the same time, and when he hit WO, Wolverine attacked him from behind and then MK batted him away like a child and then MK took on more Marvel heroes

It's his reflexes that can help him win fights. Skills don't always mean you win all the time, as Hulk isn't the most skilled figther out there now is he?

Originally posted by Battlehammer

I voted against them to second tier.........

But you wanted Kitty Pryde on second tier earlier 😬

Moon Knight has also schooled people who gave Captain America a hard time ie. Flag Smasher with no problem. He also defeated Commodore Donny Planet, who gave Iron Fist a very hard time and IF even admitted he got lucky beating him

Query: How much of Moon Knight winning against so-and-so is due to his moon abilities...?

And Mungi, I'm assuming since you're arguing for the move, you want to put an official vote down for it?