KMC Comic Book Tiers

Originally posted by Newjak
Since when has he ever beat on them. He mostly just uses their own abilities against them to delay time for himself. Heck when Superboy got tired of it he pretty much ended their sparring session quickly.

Don't get me wrong he has great skills and some very impressive feats but look at the guys he is being placed around with now. Half could beat him with a though. All of them have huge power sources around them. Magic, Physic, cosmic, or just high energy output.

Look at the list and ask who does he have more [b]power than on it? [/B]

He beat superman as a boy, then proceeded to beat the LSH. He has broken the Emerald Eye which both Mon El and Ultra Boy could not. He beat on Mon El, he beat every superpowered prisoner in a high tech prison at once. Karate Kid rocks dude, and those are only a few examples of him.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
He beat superman as a boy, then proceeded to beat the LSH. He has broken the Emerald Eye which both Mon El and Ultra Boy could not. He beat on Mon El, he beat every superpowered prisoner in a high tech prison at once. Karate Kid rocks dude, and those are only a few examples of him.

And once again he does not have as much power as the rest of them. He is able to use their own weaknesses against them. Karate Kid is, nor has he ever been shown to overpower people in the herald level. He has to use their own abilities against them.

i.e. Redirect Mon-El at Light Speed to BFR him.

But on KMC Mon-El would just Nuke the stretch of land Val was on and be done with it. Superman would freeze KK and shatter him.

Unless you want to start bumping people like Captain America, Batman, Black Panther. All of whom have used their skills to stalemate or beat a herald then there is no reason for Val to be in the Herald Level Period.

He doesn't always use their abilities against them. Look at Countdown and what he's doing to Equus. Just flat out whooping the shit out of him and Equus in turn put a beating on Superman in his only other showing.

You and I both know Captain America doesn't compare. Val does this all the time. Steve does it once every so few years.

Originally posted by Newjak
Then again those are his best examples 😬

And once again he does not have as much power as the rest of them. He is able to use their own weaknesses against them. Karate Kid is, nor has he ever been shown to overpower people in the herald level. He has to use their own abilities against them.

i.e. Redirect Mon-El at Light Speed to BFR him.

But on KMC Mon-El would just Nuke the stretch of land Val was on and be done with it. Superman would freeze KK and shatter him.

Unless you want to start bumping people like Captain America, Batman, Black Panther. All of whom have used their skills to stalemate or beat a herald then there is no reason for Val to be in the Herald Level Period.

Not really best examples, just the ones I personally know of best.

No, he can facilitate "super" strength with his skill. He has punched colossus kid (or whatever his name is, point is he was a giant) miles away. He can kick and cause an earthquake. He can speed himself up to deal with super speed (think taskmaster on steriods). He can hit flash level characters (in fact hitting one of Wallys decedents). He really IS a herald busting machine. If Karate Kid had done what Black Panther did to Silver Surfer I would have more readily accepted it 😬

Really now, your assuming that he always redirects attacks, when his offensive measures are practically superhuman, and if you want we can call his "redirectional skills" a power. 🙄

Also relevant:

Originally posted by Validus
He doesn't always use their abilities against them. Look at Countdown and what he's doing to Equus. Just flat out whooping the shit out of him and Equus in turn put a beating on Superman in his only other showing.

And Newjack, the thing is KK>>>>>>>>>>all the other guys in using his skill in clearly super human ways. No way is CA gonna KICK the floor and cause a earthquake. Never gonna happen.

Originally posted by Validus
He doesn't always use their abilities against them. Look at Countdown and what he's doing to Equus. Just flat out whooping the shit out of him and Equus in turn put a beating on Superman in his only other showing.

You and I both know Captain America doesn't compare. Val does this all the time. Steve does it once every so few years.

At least Superman could take a few from him.

And the point remains in terms of power KK is lacking next to everyone else in the Herald Level. Karate Kid has great skills but he can not blow up a planet or move a planet or even a continent.

Edit wanted to change the wording:

Unless you are gonna try and tell Val is going to overpower someone like Superman in pure raw power 😕

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Not really best examples, just the ones I personally know of best.

No, he can facilitate "super" strength with his skill. He has punched colossus kid (or whatever his name is, point is he was a giant) miles away. He can kick and cause an earthquake. He can speed himself up to deal with super speed (think taskmaster on steriods). He can hit flash level characters (in fact hitting one of Wallys decedents). He really IS a herald busting machine. If Karate Kid had done what Black Panther did to Silver Surfer I would have more readily accepted it 😬

Really now, your assuming that he always redirects attacks, when his offensive measures are practically superhuman, and if you want we can call his "redirectional skills" a power. 🙄

Also relevant:

And Newjack, the thing is KK>>>>>>>>>>all the other guys in using his skill in clearly super human ways. No way is CA gonna KICK the floor and cause a earthquake. Never gonna happen.

Like above KK simply does not have the power output that the Herald level guys do and in a KMC environment he isn't beating any of them either 😬

Originally posted by Citizen V
Yeah, after the reboot KK really isn't herald level.

At all.

I have to side with Newjack on this one. I know that KK has some uber feats to his credit, but none of them are really above and beyond the power level of most of the listed High Level Metas. The earthquake kick is probably the most convincing argument for his having a herald level power output, but is it really beyond the power output of Storm who's listed as a High Meta?

In a no PIS fight, there's not a single person on the Low Level Herald list that I wouldn't see beating the shit out of KK with little effort.

Originally posted by Validus
They're different people. There's the rebooted Val and the original Val who's running around in Countdown. Reboot Val should probably be in the Mid Metahuman bracket.

Hmm..

See, now it makes sense 👆 go Original Val.

Originally posted by Newjak
You mean the one where he literally has to dodge every single attack or he is a goner.

At least Superman could take a few from him.

His durability is not human level either. No, he isn't taking planet destroying attacks but he won't be so easily beaten with one hit either. Besides, we've got Professor X, Flash, Gamora and Hector Hammond in low herald level so obviously Superman level durability isn't a requirement.

Originally posted by Newjak
And the point remains in terms of power KK is lacking next to everyone else in the Herald Level. Karate Kid has great skills but he can not blow up a planet or move a planet or even a continent.

Originally posted by Validus
His durability is not human level either. No, he isn't taking planet destroying attacks but he won't be so easily beaten with one hit either. Besides, we've got Professor X, Flash, Gamora and Hector Hammond in low herald level so obviously Superman level durability isn't a requirement.

Originally posted by Validus
No, he dodges because thats generally what people do when you throw punches at them. Are you serious with that argument?

His durability is not human level either. No, he isn't taking planet destroying attacks but he won't be so easily beaten with one hit either. Besides, we've got Professor X, Flash, Gamora and Hector Hammond in low herald level so obviously Superman level durability isn't a requirement.

Not really. You're only saying that because you view martial arts prowess as a lesser ability than telepathy, super speed, etc. Val can't move a planet like Superman but he can do things that Superman can't do (shatter the emerald eye, inertron, etc.).

Which was my point. And you know the odd thing about everyone you just mentioned they all have planet reaching power or in case of Gamora with Godslayer a weapon with a huge energy source.

And I don't look at MA as less than other abilities. If I did then I would be saying put all MAers in the Street Class but I'm not.

What I do look at is the fact that KK's abilities and power output is not as great as the other Herald level people are. KK has great skill but as goober just mentioned does his power output really surpass Storm's. Not really.

Originally posted by Validus
He doesn't always use their abilities against them. Look at Countdown and what he's doing to Equus. Just flat out whooping the shit out of him and Equus in turn put a beating on Superman in his only other showing.

You and I both know Captain America doesn't compare. Val does this all the time. Steve does it once every so few years.

LOL.

Equus hardly put a beating on Superman.

Originally posted by Newjak
You were one almost trying to imply that Val was greater than Superman with your comment I was just pointing out that Val was going all out. Superman in his fight wasn't because he could take his shots.

And what proof is there of Val going all out?

I've seen KK go all out against Nemesis Kid and that sure as hell isn't it. The fact that can he can calmly take a Superman worthy foe and leave him in pieces is just a testament to his ability.

Originally posted by Newjak
Which was my point. And you know the odd thing about everyone you just mentioned they all have planet reaching power or in case of Gamora with Godslayer a weapon with a huge energy source.

Originally posted by Newjak
And I don't look at MA as less than other abilities. If I did then I would be saying put all MAers in the Street Class but I'm not.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Just thought I'd point out that Gamora actually DOES have the durability to qualify for low end herald. She's survived being dipped in Lava, taken shots from Terrax, and has taken shots from a maxed out universal weapon from Ronan. Besides all that durability, she's also got a healing factor on par with classic Wolverine's. You may have a point with the other two, I was just letting you know that Gamora has plenty of durability as of Annihilation.

Originally posted by batdude123
LOL.

Equus hardly put a beating on Superman.

Gotta love people and their ability to point out unimportant tidbits.

Superman is the bestest! Happy?

Originally posted by Validus
I didn't imply anything. I brought up Equus and Superman to demonstrate what level Val functions at.

And what proof is there of Val going all out?

I've seen KK go all out against Nemesis Kid and that sure as hell isn't it. The fact that can he can calmly take a Superman worthy foe and leave him in pieces is just a testament to his ability.

Val would leave Gamora in a heap, Godslayer or not. The whole reason KK was brought up by Blair Wind and batdude was because Gamora and soon to be Mantis were above him which IS wrong, no doubt about it.

But you've already demonstrated that you believe Superman's ability to move a planet and Storm's ability to control weather is greater than Val's ability to knock the ever loving piss of anything and everything.

I would also like to point out that Equus isn't a truly worthy Superman foe and I would say Superman at his best destroys Equus. I would also like to point out that Equus was getting back up before he was stopped. 😉

And Val would beat Gamora but at the same time Gamora is more than capable of giving Val a run for his money. Seeing as she has already fought and beaten Thanos and has taken on Terrax.

The only reason I say Gamora is ok is because she has the Godslayer and therefore a larger power output than KK. I wouldn't put Mantis on there for the same reason I wouldn't put Karate Kid.

Next Superman's power output is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR greater than Val's.

Which is the point. This system is based off of Power Levels and not who can beat who. Everyone on the Herald list has more power output than Val. Storm probably is roughly better or equal to him in power output.

Originally posted by Validus
That's fine. I was just saying that the ability to take a full on shot from Supes isn't needed to be in the herald bracket.

Originally posted by Validus
Val would leave Gamora in a heap, Godslayer or not. The whole reason KK was brought up by Blair Wind and batdude was because Gamora and soon to be Mantis were above him which IS wrong, no doubt about it.

In a contest of pure skill he could take either of them but by the same token in a contest of pure strength, guys like He-Man and the Hulk could probably take everyone too(even someone like Mangog, who's on the transcendent list).

Originally posted by Validus
That's fine. I was just saying that the ability to take a full on shot from Supes isn't needed to be in the herald bracket.

Like I said before a number of none herald level people have hung and or beaten Heralds.

Ironman, Captain America, Batman, Wolverine, and the list goes on. I don't see you trying to get these guys bumped up levels. The point is that Karate Kid simply can not match the power output of the Heralds.

Originally posted by Validus
God damn, who the shit cares? Is he a Superman level foe? Yes. Did he give Superman a hell of a fight? Yes.

Gotta love people and their ability to point out unimportant tidbits.

Superman is the bestest! Happy?

Are you fuckin' kidding me with this shit?

Is he Superman's level? No.

Did he give Superman a "hell of a fight?" No.

Read 'For Tomorrow' again, douche. Kal rips off his claws and punches the shit out of him so much so that Equus has to teleport away. Now let's see, what did Equus do... he slashed him once. Big shit. That doesn't equal him being on Superman's level, nor does it equal him giving Supes a "hell of a fight."

God damn, Validus. I'm simply giving context to the propaganda you're spewing out in order to justify Val being at that level.

Karate Kidz is teh more powerfuller than Supamanerezzz!!!11 F*ck that.

I love how you feel obligated to keep up the reputation of being an asshole though.