KMC Comic Book Tiers

Originally posted by StylishSmurph
She's spoken through her shields too... either Klaw was using "hard sound", which is possible, or she manipulates her shields to shut it out. Either way, chances are, she wouldn't be prepared for it. And there's still the good old hand blasts.

Mandarin- With his reflexes and physical abilities, and now IM's technopathy and healing factor, he no longer holds up.

Mimic- Difference being, we've seen Flash with hyper reflexes no matter his movement. Mimic's powers don't work the same, often requiring conscious thought until he's adapted to them... I have however, seen Mimic hit,, taken by surprise, and matched against people with lower reflexes. Often. So I just wanted some proof.

IW-She blocked sonic attacks and hard sound constructs with no problem. So Iron Man is going to do directly for the sound attack then?

Mandarin-Hell when Iron Man removed his armor to fight Cap he really didn't show that amazing physical advantage

Mimic-Errrr...what? Mimic assimilated the power ages ago it's part of him and has been for years. It's not a conscious thought, it's who he is now. Wow, I have seen Flash/Northstar/Quicksilver taken by surprise, and matched against people with lower reflexes. So Tony Stark is fighting at the best of his abilities, but not them? What proof? I honestly have no idea what you want. Showing he has superspeed?

Originally posted by StylishSmurph

Extremis can also measure his thoughts in the fractions of seconds, His showings balance out to a fairly high reaction time and overall ability.

Temugin is nothing but speculation on what he can do now, but everything shown so far doesn't stack up to Stark.

Especially since, iirc, he's missing a hand now...

Yet, more times then not he has shown to have better reflexes but not to the point your making it out to be

Which rumors over at the marvel board he is going to make a "chi" hand

Originally posted by StylishSmurph

Best of his ability =/= one good showing. Or one terrible showing for Galactus.

It's not really much different than the forum vs. rules. Unless you believe that Guardian's truly a Galactus match on the forums... ? 😬

Or the fact as stated he was built to fight Galactus by a race who spend their entire existence trying to learn about Galactus and prevent their destruction from him.

A weakened Galactus as that's what was said and him shown to be. He did in one shot the combined might of Sersi, Windshear, Hercules, Vindicator II, Vision, Quasar, BOX IV couldn't. It was even Guardian in the end was the only one who could power Galactus tech.

Originally posted by StylishSmurph

Proof that that has any bearing on Stark's technopathy, obviously. 😬

As for the rest of it... everything I've said I've backed up with references, reasoning, or simple logic.

Considering Madison Jeffries and James Hudson the residents technopathy aided in it. It would be kinda foolish to think they would have no defense in the suits. Espeically as it was hinted [not outright stated] the new armor was modified aikin to Jeffries living metal

Show me Iron Man blocking matter manipulation :/

Originally posted by StylishSmurph

Which again, is irrelevant, really...

Depends on the matter manipulator and the type of "matter manipulation"... if it is essentially telekineses, limited to specific molecules, it wouldn't work. Pretty simple, really.

What other matter manipulation is there? Honestly this is kinda crazy as everyone has to think to use their powers or to manipulate a specified area. So basically any person who has to think to matter manipulate is blocked by Iron Man? come on.

Originally posted by StylishSmurph

Stark's is still better than that. Pwned Human Torch a couple times now with ease. Then there's always Thor, Surfer, Sentry, etc.

Machine Man one-shooted Human Torch with a absolute zero punch, and killed Fing Fang Foom. Machine Man is no joke. Wait wait wait...you said this isn't Tony Stark with PIS/CIS and should be at his best. So do you honestly believe Stark beat a non Pis Thor or Silver Surfer? Also how he beat Sentry wouldn't even work for basically anyone else.

Originally posted by StylishSmurph

Please show me where Madison Jeffries shows matter manipulation even close to being on par with Molecule Man.

MM could change the fundamentals of how his matter manipulation, Stark's suit, and everything standing in his way works.

Madison could... move the suit a bit with his mind.

Sounds pretty close to me...

Never said that, but you guys literally keep saying he can shut down TK/TP, and apparently matter manipulation is just TK/TP by your standards. So what's the different?

And Jeffries couldn't? He has outright control over technology and can manipulate the molecules of metal, glass and plastic. Not by your standards as he uses thought to control molecules, so Tony could stop it 😬

So where is your evidence of Iron Man stopping matter manipulation? 😬

Originally posted by King_Mungi
IW-She blocked sonic attacks and hard sound constructs with no problem. So Iron Man is going to do directly for the sound attack then?

Mandarin-Hell when Iron Man removed his armor to fight Cap he really didn't show that amazing physical advantage

Mimic-Errrr...what? Mimic assimilated the power ages ago it's part of him and has been for years. It's not a conscious thought, it's who he is now. Wow, I have seen Flash/Northstar/Quicksilver taken by surprise, and matched against people with lower reflexes. So Tony Stark is fighting at the best of his abilities, but not them? What proof? I honestly have no idea what you want. Showing he has superspeed?

Mandarin- That's completely irrelevant... and he was fighting Captain America, who sees things in slow motion...

Mimic- Errr... so what? He hasn't shown the ability to access his speed within the momentary seconds he would need to react to something. As far as I know.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yet, more times then not he has shown to have better reflexes but not to the point your making it out to be

Which rumors over at the marvel board he is going to make a "chi" hand

Still, he hasn't yet, and thusly has no bearing...

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Or the fact as stated he was built to fight Galactus by a race who spend their entire existence trying to learn about Galactus and prevent their destruction from him.

A weakened Galactus as that's what was said and him shown to be. He did in one shot the combined might of Sersi, Windshear, Hercules, Vindicator II, Vision, Quasar, BOX IV couldn't. It was even Guardian in the end was the only one who could power Galactus tech.

Best of their ability simply means that their fighting ability won't be degraded or downplayed because of the level of their opponent.

Spider-Man is not always a herald-buster, but it's ludicrous to think that say, Vulture, could actually pose a challenge. Even back in the day.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Considering Madison Jeffries and James Hudson the residents technopathy aided in it. It would be kinda foolish to think they would have no defense in the suits. Espeically as it was hinted [not outright stated] the new armor was modified aikin to Jeffries living metal

Show me Iron Man blocking matter manipulation :/

Show me Windshear resisting technopathy. :/

Spoiler:
See what I did there?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
What other matter manipulation is there? Honestly this is kinda crazy as everyone has to think to use their powers or to manipulate a specified area. So basically any person who has to think to matter manipulate is blocked by Iron Man? come on.

What is Madison Jeffries' matter manip? Just a sub-par version of Magneto's.

And, Blair and I have already pointed out how and why it could work, being that it operates on the EM Spectrum and broader versions of the same thing have been shut out before.

The fact that it would logically include something like matter manipulation may sound silly, but it makes complete sense.

Just shouting "but its mattter manip!1!!" as your reasoning really proves nothing... 😬

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Machine Man one-shooted Human Torch with a absolute zero punch, and killed Fing Fang Foom. Machine Man is no joke. Wait wait wait...you said this isn't Tony Stark with PIS/CIS and should be at his best. So do you honestly believe Stark beat a non Pis Thor or Silver Surfer? Also how he beat Sentry wouldn't even work for basically anyone else.

Second of all, PIS or not, there's a reason that Surfer and Thor are still in high herald. I'm willing to bet, even with the same amount of alleged PIS, that say, Machine Man couldn't do the same thing.

Furthermore, the reverse argument works as well. Stark has also basically one-shotted Human Torch, and taken his absolutely best attack and just absorbed it, iirc. Furthermore, it's not like there wasn't PIS or at the very least extenuating circumstances with how Machine Man beat Fing Fang Foom...

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Never said that, but you guys literally keep saying he can shut down TK/TP, and apparently matter manipulation is just TK/TP by your standards. So what's the different?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
And Jeffries couldn't? He has outright control over technology and can manipulate the molecules of metal, glass and plastic. Not by your standards as he uses thought to control molecules, so Tony could stop it 😬

So where is your evidence of Iron Man stopping matter manipulation? 😬

And I think you're missing the point about what I'm saying about Molecule Man. Molecule Man could shape the reality of how matter manip works, even just by shifting the EM Spectrum, or that sort of thing. Jeffries coudln't.

Originally posted by StylishSmurph
Sersi, Magneto and the Silver Surfer all possess different forms of matter manipulation. I wouldn't bank on Surfer or Sersi being shut out, because of how theirs works, but we've seen Magneto shut down before, and he really just has limited TK, so it makes sense.

What is Madison Jeffries' matter manip? Just a sub-par version of Magneto's.

And, Blair and I have already pointed out how and why it could work, being that it operates on the EM Spectrum and broader versions of the same thing have been shut out before.

The fact that it would logically include something like matter manipulation may sound silly, but it makes complete sense.

Just shouting "but its mattter manip!1!!" as your reasoning really proves nothing... 😬
First of all, CIS is involved.

Where's the scan showing Iron Man negating the effect of Magneto being able to manipulate the armor?

Erik's power works on a subatomic level. The idea of of him being able to "block it" are laughable considering he's controlled Tony's armor on three separate occasions. Granted, none of the armors was the Extremis. However, I want to see what makes that armor the exception.

Originally posted by batdude123
Where's the scan showing Iron Man negating the effect of Magneto being able to manipulate the armor?

Erik's power works on a subatomic level. The idea of of him being able to "block it" are laughable considering he's controlled Tony's armor on [b]three separate occasions. Granted, none of the armors was the Extremis. However, I want to see what makes that armor the exception. [/B]

I think he did it once to Magneto during one of the old West Coast Avengers comics. However their second last encounter in Genosha Mags overoad Tony's magnetic shielding irrc. And in their last encounter during New Avengers 20 didn't Xorn/Magneto Collective do the same?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I think he did it once to Magneto during one of the old West Coast Avengers comics. However their second last encounter in Genosha Mags overoad Tony's magnetic shielding irrc. And in their last encounter during New Avengers 20 didn't Xorn/Magneto Collective do the same?

Right... so... Iron Man is > Magneto's control because... ?

Originally posted by batdude123
Right... so... Iron Man is > Magneto's control because... ?

Not saying he is. I figure Mags can overide the magnetic shielding of Tony's suit since he did so in their second last encounter when Mags wasn't joined with the Collective. But that was pre-extremis and I'm not really sure about Extremis since he did pretty well against a Collective who didn't know how to use his powers.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Not saying he is. I figure Mags can overide the magnetic shielding of Tony's suit since he did so in their second last encounter when Mags wasn't joined with the Collective. But that was pre-extremis and I'm not really sure about Extremis since he did pretty well against a Collective who didn't know how to use his powers.

I know you aren't. That was a general question.

Originally posted by batdude123
Where's the scan showing Iron Man negating the effect of Magneto being able to manipulate the armor?

Erik's power works on a subatomic level. The idea of of him being able to "block it" are laughable considering he's controlled Tony's armor on [b]three separate occasions. Granted, none of the armors was the Extremis. However, I want to see what makes that armor the exception. [/B]

But, having just checked the scan, I concede I was wrong because Doom pwned Magneto through a slightly different device than what I was thinking of.

So, Mungi, Jeffries > Ironman, if he goes through the molecular manipulation route. Until I have more proof, anyways. Doesn't mean Ironman shouldn't be low herald though. Each person in high meta that can match him in a single stat still fails to match everything else he has going for him.

But, because Batdude was foul enough to interrupt my debate to protect Magneto, I will say this...

Jeffries > Magneto

AND

Doom > Magneto.

Ha. Pwnt. sly

EDIT: No need for this anymore

Originally posted by StylishSmurph
Actually, if you'd been reading the debate beforehand, you would know I was referencing the time the same trick (or so I thought) worked on Mags by Doom.

But, having just checked the scan, I concede I was wrong because Doom pwned Magneto through a slightly different device than what I was thinking of.

So, Mungi, Jeffries > Ironman, if he goes through the molecular manipulation route. Until I have more proof, anyways. Doesn't mean Ironman shouldn't be low herald though. Each person in high meta that can match him in a single stat still fails to match everything else he has going for him.

But, because Batdude was foul enough to interrupt my debate to protect Magneto, I will say this...

Jeffries > Magneto

AND

Doom > Magneto.

Ha. Pwnt. sly

F....wish I read this before hand. I'll just edit my above long ass post as it's done now.

Also yeah I said a few times I can see him low hearld

Originally posted by batdude123
Where's the scan showing Iron Man negating the effect of Magneto being able to manipulate the armor?

Erik's power works on a subatomic level. The idea of of him being able to "block it" are laughable considering he's controlled Tony's armor on [b]three separate occasions. Granted, none of the armors was the Extremis. However, I want to see what makes that armor the exception. [/B]

http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=againstmagneto1sy7.jpg
http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=againstmagneto2zw8.jpg

Also, as for foreign objects being able to be even teleported inside his armor, he says his armor has defenses for that, and for teleporting him and his armor separately. So again, things cannot by-pass his armor.
http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cantteleportseperatlyiy2.jpg

edit: This doesnt include all the times he has blocked telepathy which is what we had originaly been stating he could block. Just pointing out that foreign objects cannot by-pass it either.

Meh! I've seen Iron Man go down from an EMP from a Thor clone.

Guaridan for low meta

Originally posted by Capt Spaulding
Guaridan for low meta

Which Guardian? Regardless..obviously against

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Which Guardian? Regardless..obviously against

obviously sarcasm....

Originally posted by Capt Spaulding
obviously sarcasm....

Obviously wasn't sure 😎

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Obviously wasn't sure 😎

obviously our public school's fault for not teaching sarcasm as an elective.

Originally posted by Capt Spaulding
obviously our public school's fault for not teaching sarcasm as an elective.

Yeah, that would be helpful.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yeah, that would be helpful.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=againstmagneto1sy7.jpg
http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=againstmagneto2zw8.jpg

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I think he did it once to Magneto during one of the old West Coast Avengers comics. However their second last encounter in Genosha Mags overoad Tony's magnetic shielding irrc. And in their last encounter during New Avengers 20 didn't Xorn/Magneto Collective do the same?

Here's a more recent example than that...

http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hrpage131ym.jpg

Iron Man isn't immune to Magneto's power. 😬

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Meh! I've seen Iron Man go down from an EMP from a Thor clone.

Are you kidding? He's been taken down by an EMP plenty of times.