Originally posted by DigiMark007
Not really. Bill's versatility is light years beyond Drax, and Hulk has proved himself to be peerless in the "slow brutes" department, regardless of whether or not they were written comparably when they were in the same story arcs.
Regardless, Big/Smart Drax has thrown down with Genis-Vell, Thanos, survived/destroyed the core of stars, one-punched planets, etc...I think he should at least be mid-herald.
IMO EXTREMIS Iron Man should be at the very least a low herald... A suit for every occasion (WWH (nanites would have worked), Namor, KT, etc). Director of S.H.E.I.L.D, CEO Stark Enterprises, Secretary of Defense, HF on par with Wolverines, Reaction times in the .0004 sec range, Technopathic abilities (capable of controlling any computer or machine on the planet) I.E. all ships, planes, guns, tanks, missiles, atomic and nuclear and dirty bombs, etc... Capable of controlling 100's of IM armors at once along with at least some alien technology. Richest man in MARVEL or DC, Top 5 smartest in MARVEL or DC, 2nd in the king of prep race, etc... Just to name a few items off his resume'.
I vote yes.
That's 6 for and 2 against.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
They cannot think a thought that penetrates his personal space. The technology is on his watch AND on his armor. He and his armor cannot be touched telepathically.But yes actually. If madison jefferies was just himself outside of his box form and still using metal against him, Ironman would win. Not even based on anything but one thing: His human brain shutdown sonics frequency.
This can apply to anyone who has human like features (Invisible Woman comes to mind).
His power doesn't work like that though
Or he makes Iron Man's suit apart of his..and yes he can do that
So basically Molecule Man would lose to Iron Man then as he can't manipulate him?
Originally posted by StylishSmurph
IW- Faster reaction times + sonic attacks = disabled IW...Mandarin- still doesn't hold up nowadays
Mimic- When he's not traveling at 1/2 Light Speed... 😐 Anyways, I just wanted to see Mimic use these "uber reflexes" when he's not traveling 1/2 C.
IW-She has blocked sonic attacks before ie. Klaw
Mandarin-Errrr?
Mimic-He would still have his reflexes, as it's not like when say Flash is standing still his reflexes vanish
Originally posted by StylishSmurph
So we should judge by what we have seen, which isn't impressive. Besides, as I recall, Temugin was beat down/dismembered in his appearance in MODOK's 11...
Meh! after a sneak attack, but E.Iron Man got owned by a ninja with a sword that cut his armor like butter
Originally posted by StylishSmurph
In the thread, I believe we're supposed to judge them according to their best ability, but taking CIS into account.
Then Guardian is a Galactus buster all the time 😄
Woot
Originally posted by StylishSmurph
Proof? If you're going to pull that with IW not being blocked out by Tony's armor, you're certainly gonna need proof here.
Errr? Proof it was modified by them? It was jsut stated, we didn't see what they did. No offense, but you have been making serveral bold comments and didn't provide evidence 😬
Originally posted by StylishSmurph
Not to a hero.He is telekinetically controlling the molecules, so yes, it is.
Well like you mentioned if this character is going all out, he definetly can 😬 Here Windshear is mentioned he can literally turn the intangiable vision solid
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-12.jpg
So Iron Man is beyond matter manipulation eh?
Originally posted by StylishSmurph
Are you seriously justifying Batman, say, batkicking Captain Marvel into Billy? There are few worse examples that you could have chosen.
You talked about trackrecord, hell Machine Man has owned Human Torch, Hulk, Sasquatch, Vision, Justice/Firestar all with responsible ease
A pissed off Mary Marvel WTFOWNED Captain Atom..with ease
Originally posted by StylishSmurph
Based on? He telekinteically controls the atoms. No different than say, Magneto, and he's been shut down by similar devices before.
So Iron Man vs. Molecule Man then? Please show me where Iron Man stops matter manipulation. As this is a very bold statement
Originally posted by StylishSmurph
As I recall, he mentioned destroying all that mass he had taken in. I'll go look at it again. But, Madison Jeffries isn't pretty high, low herald wise, and I firmly believe Iron Man could hang with him. Much easier than you make it out to be.
How could he destroy all the mass he taken in when he transformed into a massive spaceship to escape the blast radius? He even then continually destroys peices of his mass to power the ship. So no he doesn't have to destroy all of his mass.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
His power doesn't work like that though
How so? He mentally commands metal and plastics does he not? All powers are derived psionically even if they are not true telepathy or telekinesis. They are variations of those powers though. I mean Iceman controls water through his mind, what else would he control it with?
In the Marvel Universe, telepathy and all its variances run along the electro magnetic spectrum. This is shown when Magneto messes with it and prohibits long range telepathy. With this we then provide the means to shut out anyone trying to mess with the insides of the Iron Man armor. His tech (in his watch and armor) does not allow foreign commands from anyone other than him to bypass his armor (I'm guessing he has some kind of electro magnetic scrambler).
Ironman has been shown on various occasions stopping telepathy at its core (Moondragon), stopping telepathy through hypnotism (Controller), stopping world class telepathy with nothing more than his watch (Mentallo), has mentioned that his armors defenses would not allow someone to teleport his armor away from his body or his body away from his armor (meaning the man inside cannot be touched), even stated that nanites could not be TELEPORTED past his armor (into his armor...this was the reason he was the only person not infected with nanites), and has even built a telekinesis/telepathy inhibitor to put on people.
Moving on from that, his advanced reaction time, speed, overall offensive powers (repulsers, pulse bolts, sonics, EMP's, Uni Beam, ice generation, magnetism, ect), strength, energy absorbing (absorbing things like Human Torch's noval burst, Thors lightning, Silver Sufer and Terrax's power cosmic), and his other various modular tech components make him one of the most formidable people in Marvel Earth. Add in his technopathy, his healing factor, his enhanced strength, and you have a upgraded power house to reckon with. Then for the purposes of this list we must address his standing in the Marvel Earth. He is Director of SHIELD, former Secretary of Defense, long time original Avenger, and de facto leader of the Illuminati.
He deserves low herald. He was for a long time the pinnacle of high meta (Iron Man level tournaments abound). In the last tournament we had of that level, Extremis was not allowed. Why? Because he was now too powerful. He was bumped up there, and should be bumped up on this thread as well.
His resume speaks for itself. As far as the Doom comment, Stark hacked in Dooms computers back in the Thor against the world arc. He even told Doom he would always have a way to keep an eye on him, and took over all his video screens. Doom is more powerful via magic, but armor to armor? I wouldnt put it past Stark to win 😬
He controls it though his mind, so I guess he blocks it then and Jeffries powers? Well I guess Molecule Man is screwed as well as he does it with his mind as well 😬 Sooooo basically Iron Man is beyong matter manipulation? *snickers* I guess Guardian is too as he can block telepathy and TK as well.
Also most of that didn't even relate to me, so why did you go off on a tangent? as I mentioned earlier I can see him low herald
Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
I guess I end up mixing up regular feats of his with feats while he had the power gem.Regardless, Big/Smart Drax has thrown down with Genis-Vell, Thanos, survived/destroyed the core of stars, one-punched planets, etc...I think he should at least be mid-herald.
😬 at using Thanos as a reference for Drax. There's obviously special circumstances there.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Difference is, Doom is far smarter than Stark and even Stark acknowledges Doom's armor designs are superior.
That's crap.. DOOM is IMO #2 in the smarts department (Reed being #1)but not because his tech and or suits are better than Tony's because they aren't but, because DOOM is not that far behind Tony in that area and because of the fact that he's also #2 in the sorcery department as well. DOOM's armor is done differently than Tony's and he has marveled at it in the past not because they are better than Tony's but, they are being done from a totally different direction and that's quite interesting to Tony. Just like when Reed has marveled at Tony's armor in the past Saying "That they were very complex " and "I know that Stark is brilliant but WOW".
So to say that DOOM is "far" smarter than Stark is saying a bit much but, IMO he is smarter.
Originally posted by llagrok
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8623/magripsapartapocalypse4li.jpg
Originally posted by DigiMark007
😬 at using Thanos as a reference for Drax. There's obviously special circumstances there.
Heh, think you're taking the Thanos thing the wrong way. Just saying, he's thrown down with more high class opponents on average than the Hulk, and should at least be in the same category as him.
Originally posted by King_MungiShe's spoken through her shields too... either Klaw was using "hard sound", which is possible, or she manipulates her shields to shut it out. Either way, chances are, she wouldn't be prepared for it. And there's still the good old hand blasts.
IW-She has blocked sonic attacks before ie. KlawMandarin-Errrr?
Mimic-He would still have his reflexes, as it's not like when say Flash is standing still his reflexes vanish
Mandarin- With his reflexes and physical abilities, and now IM's technopathy and healing factor, he no longer holds up.
Mimic- Difference being, we've seen Flash with hyper reflexes no matter his movement. Mimic's powers don't work the same, often requiring conscious thought until he's adapted to them... I have however, seen Mimic hit,, taken by surprise, and matched against people with lower reflexes. Often. So I just wanted some proof.
Originally posted by King_MungiExtremis can also measure his thoughts in the fractions of seconds, His showings balance out to a fairly high reaction time and overall ability.
Meh! after a sneak attack, but E.Iron Man got owned by a ninja with a sword that cut his armor like butter
Temugin is nothing but speculation on what he can do now, but everything shown so far doesn't stack up to Stark.
Especially since, iirc, he's missing a hand now...
Originally posted by King_MungiBest of his ability =/= one good showing. Or one terrible showing for Galactus.
Then Guardian is a Galactus buster all the time 😄Woot
It's not really much different than the forum vs. rules. Unless you believe that Guardian's truly a Galactus match on the forums... ? 😬
Originally posted by King_MungiProof that that has any bearing on Stark's technopathy, obviously. 😬
Errr? Proof it was modified by them? It was jsut stated, we didn't see what they did. No offense, but you have been making serveral bold comments and didn't provide evidence 😬
As for the rest of it... everything I've said I've backed up with references, reasoning, or simple logic.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Well like you mentioned if this character is going all out, he definetly can 😬 Here Windshear is mentioned he can literally turn the intangiable vision solidhttp://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-12.jpg
So Iron Man is beyond matter manipulation eh?
Depends on the matter manipulator and the type of "matter manipulation"... if it is essentially telekineses, limited to specific molecules, it wouldn't work. Pretty simple, really.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
You talked about trackrecord, hell Machine Man has owned Human Torch, Hulk, Sasquatch, Vision, Justice/Firestar all with responsible easeA pissed off Mary Marvel WTFOWNED Captain Atom..with ease
Originally posted by King_MungiPlease show me where Madison Jeffries shows matter manipulation even close to being on par with Molecule Man.
So Iron Man vs. Molecule Man then? Please show me where Iron Man stops matter manipulation. As this is a very bold statement
MM could change the fundamentals of how his matter manipulation, Stark's suit, and everything standing in his way works.
Madison could... move the suit a bit with his mind.
Sounds pretty close to me...
Originally posted by King_MungiAs I said, I haven't seen it in a little while, so I couldn't tell you. I'll look into it.
How could he destroy all the mass he taken in when he transformed into a massive spaceship to escape the blast radius? He even then continually destroys peices of his mass to power the ship. So no he doesn't have to destroy all of his mass.
