Originally posted by Konton
Zatanna isn't on this list. She's been stated to be the most powerful Justice League member multiple times. Should be high herald.
I don't know enough about Zatanna to say whether she should be in that tier or not but we certainly can't do placements based on that.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Actually he probably was above King Thor, I mean all Thor did was wreck his shield but still did no damage. On the other hand Genis effortlessly killed Sturm who had King Thor terrified and gearing up asgard for war.
Still, let's try not to base a tier ranking off of an ambiguous 2-3 panels that tell us nothing definitive.
Originally posted by Al the KillerIf what you say is true than both should be moved up. I can see Zemo beating many who are in Trans. It's not like Zemo has lost any of his fights and his two big battle with Genis and GM both resulted in him winning.
Hadrian is the cream of the "high herald" crop to me so I don't really see Zemo above him. Spartan has all of the same time/space powers of Zemo at an equal or higher level in addition to his Majestic level physical stats so I say no.
Side notes some feat for those interested.
Narration classifying Zemo with stones as a universal threat
Stones gives him Unlimited power.
Stones were so powerful that it caused reality to collapse around them.
Future: knows how things are going to turn out.
Here Baron shows what would have happened if he tried to save Genis in every potential timeline. The end result was always the end of reality. – This shown Baron can see all possible outcomes.
vs Grandmaster. - Defeats him also he already played this fight out many times. <the ability to see all outcome>
Just to show how power GM is at space/time manipulation.
Strange , Quasar , Thor etc were all helpless against him , he has also raised the dead back to life with a snap of his fingers before. When Baron disposed of him he could not return without the aid of the moonstones.
Also Baron has almost no low end feats that I can think of without major plot device even than I can’t think one top of my head.
Lol maybe I should have put this in his respect thread but could find one
Originally posted by Digi
Still, let's try not to base a tier ranking off of an ambiguous 2-3 panels that tell us nothing definitive.
The big feat of the Thor appearance wasn't just the fight with Thor, it was how he killed Sturm without even trying, and King Thor had asgard geared for war against him and Drang. But Genis killed him no problem.
Another thing of interest is how Genis one-shotted Heimdall without trying at all, he said all it took was the power of his little finger. Classic Thor on the other hand has had far lengthier and more even fights with Heimdall.
Insane Genis said that he didn't think Thanos confronting him would give him any trouble (and he would know since he has cosmic awareness).
I am completely baffled with how he is on a level with SS and base Thor when he is clearly far above either.
Takes on asgard's entire army:
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5687/captainmarveliv07p169pz.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/i/captainmarveliv07p174tu.jpg/
Hurts King Thor:
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1026/captainmarveliv07p219nk.jpg
Toys with Sturm who Thor was seriously worried about:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2011/capmarvelv408p037mu.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/401/capmarvelv408p058ky.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/3208/capmarvelv408p060pm.jpg
Whereas King Thor taking on Drang (Sturm's equal) proved far less effective (He just got back up right after):
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7974/capmarvelv408p084jz.jpg
Genis's previous (high herald) incarnation was nothing compared to his insane and post-insane versions:
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/2489/captainmarveliv14p103nx.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4645/captainmarveliv14p110dc.jpg
Originally posted by King Kandy
Hurts King Thor:http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1026/captainmarveliv07p219nk.jpg
Toys with Sturm who Thor was seriously worried about:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2011/capmarvelv408p037mu.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/401/capmarvelv408p058ky.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/3208/capmarvelv408p060pm.jpg
You do realize that Thor is using Mjolnir and not the Odinforce, right?
Discussion can continue about Genis. Though I'm restating my vote for Zemo to move up. If someone could tabulate the votes, that would be nice. And others can join in as well, since we haven't had a ton of votes on him.
And Kandy's points aren't awful ones, but I remain unconvinced. And knocking down Thor, any version of him, from which he gets up immediately, doesn't count as a feat. It tells us nothing definitive, and I have no idea why it is still used in any context.
Also, does Zatanna at Mid sound fair? Unless there's objections, I'm going to place ehr on the list soon.
Zemo shouldn't be placed a tier above Hadrian is all I'm saying. Personally, I think both belong in the high herald grouping but one certainly isn't a tier above the other.
Besides that, I don't think either of them are a tier above Genis either. And besides THAT, I don't think any of the 3 are a tier above Surfer and GL. The top shelf energy and matter manipulators can all do things the others can't and a comparison between them typically ends up just splitting hairs.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You do realize that Thor is using Mjolnir and not the Odinforce, right?
a. Beat Heimdall in one shot without trying in the slightest, Heimdall who has proven a challenge for Thor in the past.
b. Toyed with Sturm whereas Drang was taking on Balder, Thor and some others and Thor felt the need to mobilize all of asgard for war against.
c. Trashed the armies of asgard like they were children.
d. His previous version was SS level and Thanos respected his power (enlisted him against Walker). He could not hurt Insane Genis whatsoever, and Insane Genis's blasts sent him flying.
e. When fused with his future self, he is practically omnipotent since he has full use of his near-infinite powers. Kills the skrull-Kree invasion forces just by thinking it.
f. Defeated his son Ely who could one-shot star systems and said he could do the same to galaxies.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I'm not even going to bother trying to argue Genis>King Thor. But he is unarguably above base thor (and everyone else in the high-herald category).a. Beat Heimdall in one shot without trying in the slightest, Heimdall who has proven a challenge for Thor in the past.
b. Toyed with Sturm whereas Drang was taking on Balder, Thor and some others and Thor felt the need to mobilize all of asgard for war against.
c. Trashed the armies of asgard like they were children.
d. His previous version was SS level and Thanos respected his power (enlisted him against Walker). He could not hurt Insane Genis whatsoever, and Insane Genis's blasts sent him flying.
e. When fused with his future self, he is practically omnipotent since he has full use of his near-infinite powers. Kills the skrull-Kree invasion forces just by thinking it.
f. Defeated his son Ely who could one-shot star systems and said he could do the same to galaxies.
a. Heimdall has not. Thor dodged an attack and punched him.
b. Odin also rallied the forces of Asgard against the dark elves and Set. Does your brain comprehend that Odin COULD one-shot the opposing forces? Does your brain comprehend that the reason why Asgardians exist is that they live to fight? Asgardians don't aim to sit still at home in peace, they want to fight and die. Don't completely ignore the mytology here.
c. k, and?
d. wait wait, you're claiming that non-insane Genis was as strong as the Surfer? :/
e. Not practically omnipotent.
f. Wow, he said he could one-shot galaxies? In which comic did he do that?
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
a. Heimdall has not. Thor dodged an attack and punched him.b. Odin also rallied the forces of Asgard against the dark elves and Set. Does your brain comprehend that Odin COULD one-shot the opposing forces? Does your brain comprehend that the reason why Asgardians exist is that they live to fight? Asgardians don't aim to sit still at home in peace, they want to fight and die. Don't completely ignore the mytology here.
c. k, and?
d. wait wait, you're claiming that non-insane Genis was as strong as the Surfer? :/
e. Not practically omnipotent.
f. Wow, he said he could one-shot galaxies? In which comic did he do that?
b. No the point is that Thor was freaking out over these guys, and not only did he mobilize the armies, the armies weren't enough. While Genis was pwning Sturm, Drang was taking on the armies no problem.
c. Balder and others, pretty good feat.
d. They fought side by side in arcs like infinity abyss and The End, and seemed pretty equal. Surfer was probably a bit stronger and a lot more skilled but they were definitely in the same weight class.
e. Pretty much. In the issue they say he has nigh-infinite power and could do anything he needed to.
f. He said he could destroy galaxies in V3 # 23. And it was five star systems he destroyed, not one as I said earlier (better than that often referenced Galactus feat in Annihilation 🙂)
Originally posted by King Kandy
a. Heimdall has done so often. Journey into Mystery 101, 110, and others.b. No the point is that Thor was freaking out over these guys, and not only did he mobilize the armies, the armies weren't enough. While Genis was pwning Sturm, Drang was taking on the armies no problem.
c. Balder and others, pretty good feat.
d. They fought side by side in arcs like infinity abyss and The End, and seemed pretty equal. Surfer was probably a bit stronger and a lot more skilled but they were definitely in the same weight class.
e. Pretty much. In the issue they say he has nigh-infinite power and could do anything he needed to.
f. He said he could destroy galaxies in V3 # 23. And it was five star systems he destroyed, not one as I said earlier (better than that often referenced Galactus feat in Annihilation 🙂)
a. Slight different, Heimdall was actually ****ing strong back then. He could rely on power from the entire universe and do practically anything with his sword.
b. Odd then, how little competition he turned out to put up against Thor. Or how the Sorceror Supreme played no role at all. Regardless, you fail to realize that no matter how much will you pour into it, he was no legimate threat. But if you, or the comic, actually think that soldiers makes a difference in a battle between herald+ characters, then that tells us plenty about you.
c. Balder hasn't done anything in 30 years.
d. In The end Namor also fought side by side with them. Damn!
e. Nigh-infinite power doesn't really mean anything.
f. So he didn't really destroy any galaxies? In case you've forgotten, The Surfer outdid Galactus early in Annihilation.
