Originally posted by Enyalus
So are most villains. Lex Luthor included.Oh, and Hulk.
Yeah, there's nothing more impressive than beating Namor, Hercules and Iron Man? Am I right?
"Team-wrecker" is one of the stupidest arguments that exist on this board, and is abused practically all of the time. Why? Because for some reason, people assume that all teams are equally powerful. The team that Despero fought could've conquered Marvel earth for crying out loud.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Not really, to the first. Take a look at the high herald category. Most everyone on that list beats him for a majority, IMO.That's what I, personally, use to gauge the power of someone. When half or more of the given tier in question are capable of beating the character in question.
Fair enough. But "Hulk and Luthor" doesn't make the point you just made here, and it makes a rather indefensible point at that. That's the post I was refuting your logic on, which Kris also helped me with. The teams Despero has gone up against are far and away more powerful than those Hulk has solo'd. It's the difference between soloing 6 members of the X-Men and 6 members of the JLA. Both are impressive, but only one is Trans. level.
but again with regards to despero, he didn't simply show up and take on the entire JLA. he took them out nearly individually. he did defeat MM and arthur simultaneously, but does that qualify him for trans? when i think team-wrecker, i think of nefaria taking on ALL the avengers at the same time. despero has never defeated the jla en masse--at least not the classic version of the team.
i SORT of agree with smurph's point about the weakest being moved down, but i see most of the others as being somewhere AROUND the same level. i think the goal should be to try and "shrink" or "narrow" the tiers if at all possible. when there exists a big difference between the most powerful and least powerful in a tier i think that's an issue that should be looked at. to me, it seemed (and still does) as though despero is quite a bit below nearly everyone else in the tier. which is why i brought him up. 😬
Originally posted by Digi
I'm beginning to wonder what constitutes Trans if Despero gets voted down (I'm still against, btw). Are we going to endlessly say "has he done every one of these 12 high-end feats that Surfer/Thor/Superman has?" despite the fact that a lot of them don't. Hell, friggin' Thanos can't match every one of Surfer's feats, for example. Probably the same with Thor or Supes. Thanos to HH? Please.Seems to me like team-wreckers (provided the team has sufficient herald-levelers) are almost by their very definition Trans-level. Despero has wrecked teams composed of HHs and MHs. I couldn't care less if he has some lower showings in his "classic" incarnations. This isn't a average rating of all incarnations and eras. It's current unless otherwise specified.
Well Digi, one question then..... If it's overall appearances and such then why did you remove DS from the list? As you claim with Thanos they were charter members and DS had many appearances that were Trans level or thereabouts. Yet, after one series that was debatable about what he actually accomplished on his own (we don't need to get into that now as I and others have talked about why DS is given too much credit) Point is, after one arc you removed him from the list. Even though you said he and thanos weren't going anywhere. Your reason was... something like... didn't want people arguing about it anymore. So, it seems one arc or too much arguing over someone can get them removed and doesn't have to be consistent showings.
Originally posted by tjcoady
Oh I know.I just like to rep Young Justice.
And in their defense he was possessing the Martian Manhunter at the time.
aye. it was a sweet issue all the same. damn, that is one comic i wish they'd have kept running... thanks for that donna troy...
Originally posted by Martian_mind
Did Agents of Atlas 9 and The first five issues in Hardback come out this week?
no idea.
Originally posted by Enyalus
The same Konvikt who was stalemating a wounded Wonder Woman? 😛
oh yeah, knock the woman in the team... real classy dude... 😛
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Well Digi, one question then..... If it's overall appearances and such then why did you remove DS from the list? As you claim with Thanos they were charter members and DS had many appearances that were Trans level or thereabouts. Yet, after one series that was debatable about what he actually accomplished on his own (we don't need to get into that now as I and others have talked about why DS is given too much credit) Point is, after one arc you removed him from the list. Even though you said he and thanos weren't going anywhere. Your reason was... something like... didn't want people arguing about it anymore. So, it seems one arc or too much arguing over someone can get them removed and doesn't have to be consistent showings.
People weren't able to keep it respectful. That's the number one rule, which transcends (I choose the word carefully) anything else about this thread. If a character isn't going to be able to be discussed civilly, they will be removed, and the people involved will be warned/banned as necessary.
Beyond that, there's numerous incarnations of Darkseid, or at least multiple eras where he is portrayed differently. To say it was a single arc that led to his removal is an oversimplification of the discussion.
So it was an easy decision. We've removed others for incarnation confusion before, and the bashing that took place over the character sealed the deal.
Originally posted by Peterlane
Yes he should. At least Mid Herald like Black Bolt, who he matched blow for blow and even came back from a scream and strangled him to death that even Blackbolt had to suicide bomb himself.
Yeah, no. He got screamed into muscle tissue when BB got angry, then managed to hold BB up long enough for the T-Bomb to take them both out. The only stalemate was when BB was severely holding back because of the bomb. Sans T-Bomb, is there any reason BB doesn't just scream again, sending Vulcan into oblivion? I saw it as a pretty clear stomp for BB, with the T-bomb being the only thing capable of really harming BB.
Originally posted by PeterlaneBlack Bolt held back for the first part of the fight, and didn't simply finish Vulcan off in the second part because Crystal stopped him.
Yes he should. At least Mid Herald like Black Bolt, who he matched blow for blow and even came back from a scream and strangled him to death that even Blackbolt had to suicide bomb himself.
In an open, unhindered match, there was nothing to prove that Black Bolt wouldn't simply destroy him.