KMC Comic Book Tiers

seriously leo what? 😕

galan was basically asking the same questions i was you just failed to quote the rest of his post:

looking at the LM list now, and I see a few others there who could easily be seen as 'bricks' as well, so I'm not really sure what the best way is to go

😬

and if this is some backhand thing to do with cap, i also said cap should be in lm, so not sure what your beef is.

anyway, w/venom bane should be low meta for sure, imo. same as kingpin. conan has some feats that straddle the line but i'd say hs for conan would be fair for him.

Originally posted by Galan007
Really depends how we are defining the difference between HS and LM.

For example, I was under the impression that Batman was being bumped up to LM because he doesn't *just* have the physicality compete at that level, but he also has loads of haxx tech as standard equipment that helps him bridge the gap as well.

Physically speaking, Bane(/w/ Venom) is definitely meta-class, but he lacks the kind of versatility I would expect from those in the meta-tier... At least in a forum setting. Kingpin is basically in the same boat: they're essentially lower-end bricks.

...That's what I was thinking, at least. But looking at the LM list now, and I see a few others there who could easily be seen as 'bricks' as well, so I'm not really sure what the best way is to go about this..?

Basically, it's overall formidability within the forum, not comic book classification status, because this is not an arm wrestle. Just because one has superhuman strength, it doesn't mean that he's a low-meta, it's the whole package [Kingpin is technically a human, just very large/strong]. If low-superhuman strength is all one has, somebody with better equipment [or ability like, say, Black Canary], would beat him. I think naming it 'meta' tier misleads people a bit. Being superhuman doesn't automatically put you above other people who are functionally more formidable.

Random example: the Talons. Superhuman, but they're not meta. They'd be high street.

If it helps, people should imagine the equipment as a mutation. So instead of thinking that Nightwing is a human that can throw gas,bombs and tasers, has x-ray/thermal vision, imagine a mutant that can do all those, as it's the same thing. Or, imagine Human Torch as a normal guy inside a skin tight suit that simulates all of what he can do now. Otherwise we risk being too focused on bench-press, instead of the bigger picture of how they look at full capacity.

that's one way of looking at it, another is comparatively. i see kinpin being able to do the things he's done lately and battle spiderman to several standstills in the past. anyone who can do that deserves to be in the meta tier imo. on venom, bane can take ludicrous amounts of punishment. couple that with his crazy strength feats and he dwarfs most in the high street category. a case might be made for him at mm. bane on venom vs spiderman i'd say could go either way, assuming he has his knife to slice away webbing.

the thread was originally created so newcomers or those who didn't know a lot about comics could use it to create matches that weren't MISMATCHES. not sure how bane w/venom isn't a mismatch against the vast majority of the high street tier. it'd be legit spite against a couple imo. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
seriously leo what? 😕

galan was basically asking the same questions i was you just failed to quote the rest of his post:

😬

and if this is some backhand thing to do with cap, i also said cap should be in lm, so not sure what your beef is.

anyway, w/venom bane should be low meta for sure, imo. same as kingpin. conan has some feats that straddle the line but i'd say hs for conan would be fair for him.

You weren't really supposed to take what I said seriously. I was trying to screw you a bit...

You say Bane but you mean Hawkeye. The dude beats his whole tier and has versatility in spades. He also has disposed of Cap while holding back ('cause they are bro) and not even at optimal distance. Give him range and he sh_ts on a good chunk of the low meta tier too.

I agree he's no Batman on close range, but in many MUs the difference in skill wouldn't even matter.

Wheres Bullseye then? Maybe we should call this the versatility tier. 🙄

EDIt: All jokes aside that might actually clarify things a bit more. But use a more fancy word than versatility.

seems trans tier dc and marvel are pretty even out

then high herald level became dc heavy

wonder what the charts gonna look like skyfather and above

Originally posted by Deadline
You weren't really supposed to take what I said seriously. I was trying to screw you a bit...

Ah. 👆

As regards the rest I really think we need to be looking at match ups as opposed to focusing on the tourney thing. Good hosts can always ban a character as they always do. If we look at the tiers as ways to help people make good matches then I think it would eliminate some of the confusion. I could see Hawkeye at lm based on match ups. Just one guys opinion.

Originally posted by leonidas
that's one way of looking at it, another is comparatively. i see kinpin being able to do the things he's done lately and battle spiderman to several standstills in the past. anyone who can do that deserves to be in the meta tier imo. on venom, bane can take ludicrous amounts of punishment. couple that with his crazy strength feats and he dwarfs most in the high street category. a case might be made for him at mm. bane on venom vs spiderman i'd say could go either way, assuming he has his knife to slice away webbing.

the thread was originally created so newcomers or those who didn't know a lot about comics could use it to create matches that weren't MISMATCHES. not sure how bane w/venom isn't a mismatch against the vast majority of the high street tier. it'd be legit spite against a couple imo. /shrug

I disagree with Kingpin -- looking at not only Daredevil, but Hawkeye [as Bentley said], Green Arrow, Nightwing and the like. He's too unidimensional. I mean, the only way those would be a mismatch is if the fight starts a meter away from them. 0.5 km? Nah. Spiderman is notorious for shit performances against street levelers, considering his stats, but when he gets serious [i.e. Back in Black, or see Superior Spiderman vs Wolvie], it's a whole different game entirely.

That’s fair enough. Tbh I’d be fine with Hawkeye in either tier. Kingpin has done some pretty crazy sh1t lately though and with his recent showings it feels like he should be moved up. Again it doesn’t have to be perfect so I’m not going nuts over it. Like i said though if a guy can face down spidey, seems meta to me.

leo, you're using capital letters now?

Wtf?

He's wearing a suit as we're talking, too.

Very professional.

Originally posted by leonidas
As regards the rest I really think we need to be looking at match ups as opposed to focusing on the tourney thing.

That'd be a hot mess, imo. Big time.

Originally posted by Phil
He's wearing a suit as we're talking, too.

Very professional.

Originally posted by leonidas
the thread was originally created so newcomers or those who didn't know a lot about comics could use it to create matches that weren't MISMATCHES.

That said, I'm not against Bane(/w/ Venom) getting bumped to LM. I just feel like we have to think outside the 'in universe' confines, or it will turn into a very slippery slope.

Originally posted by Galan007
leo is all-in with this discussion. He's probably sipping a nice vintage wine as well. 👆

https://giphy.com/gifs/amy-schumer-E3L5goMMSoAAo

and i was on my phone for those couple replies, so don't think i was getting all uppity. autocorrect, i love you.

annnyyyywayyyyy... i don't think i'm understanding what you're saying about the in-universe conflicts. when i said mismatches, i meant mismatches in the forum setting of course.

i lot of people are just bad match characters. the arrow guys are good examples of that i think. let's say it's hawkeye vs kingpin in a standard ring, standard starting distance, standard gear. i'd actually say it's spite against kingpin. a couple explosive arrows and kp is dead. sub in deadshot. same ending and shot is only at mid street. still likely spite in a standard match. you'd need to rig the setting to give kp a chance, or neuter shot. look at all the low streets shot would slaughter in a standard match.

what i'm getting at is that there isn't a perfect way, and it doesn't need to be perfect (as we've said a million times). but if we TRY and look at who is close in forum matches, that can go a long way to helping place some of these guys.

again, using kp as an example, anyone who has lethal gear can likely kill him in a standard match--even characters BELOW him. but, does that mean he isn't meta? not imo. we're letting the fact that gear can kill him, dictate his level. it shouldn't imo. characters CAN be beaten by characters below them if conditions are right. it doesn't change the fact that there are several low metas he would chew up and spit out.

not sure that makes sense to you, but again, just my two cents.

I understand completely, and it does make sense... But my question is, where do we draw the line?

Take Hulk, for example: the guy has trans-level physical stats when he gets pissed, but everyone opted to keep him at mid-herald due to a general lack of versatility(which I agree with.)

So do you think that same rationale shouldn't apply to the lower-tiered bricks, like Kingpin?

i'm not sure tbh. hulk is a great example. it's why i voted him to hh. not saying my way is better. not sure there IS a better way. i think in the end what we'd like to see are good, interesting matches in the vs forums. tourneys come and go. keeping the forum in mind should maybe be the number one goal?

anyway, what about the hood? 😄 hm? meh, probably lh... he's giving doom hell in ironman.

👆

I'd be curious to hear some opinions from the other guys about this as well, because it's a great question.

Anyway, I'd second The Hood at HM, yeah.

What about Ultimate Reed (The Maker)? We have 616 Reed at MM, and I feel like Maker is at least a solid tier above him in general. /shrug

What about John Constantine? HH? Trans?

*Made the following additions to the list:

Magik- HM

Vandal Savage- MM

Groot- HM

Captain Cold- HM

Prometheus- MM

Mr. Freeze- MM

Atrocitus- HH

Ultraman- HH

Mirror Master- LH

Owlman- LM

Hush- MS

King Shark- MM

Black Mask- MS

Giganta- HM

**I left Gotham/Gotham Girl, Rogol Zarr, Watchmen characters, and the Guardians off the list for now due to a general lack of consensus.