Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I am still confused by the 4th-11th dimension, since my mind can only concieve of the first three dimensions.
hmm
You are going to have to study physics for quite a while, then. Study everyday for 2 hours and after 3 to 6 months, you should be quite versed in current theoretical physics, imo. I think that physics is easier to learn than philosophy and theoretical mathematics. (as far as how much of your brain you have to apply to learn new concepts.)
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveIf you drop a rock into water what happens, if you have a void it will be filled by something sooner or later.
If nothingness does not exist then it cannot be unstable. Do you follow what I mean? If it does not exist then it is neither stable nor unstable. You stated,How can nothingness erupt into anything? Nothingness is just that: nothingness. There is nothing to erupt (no pun intended). Besides, if nothingness could erupt that would presuppose that nothing has energy and energy is something. Does this make any sense to you?
Again, I never said that any Bible story was proven (at least I don’t recall stating this). The Bible must be accepted by faith because there is no way for me to prove that all of the events and situations happened as recorded therein.
Okay, I understand your analogy.
I assumed you were trying to compare the theory of gravity to the story of creation in terms of something unseen being unprovable. If that were the case, you would have been incorrect.
Your Faith is your choice, and I am not trying to get you to justify your faith. However, you cannot pass off your faith as fact. Your faith is belief, not fact. No one needs to have faith in gravity, because gravity is supported by tremendous evidence. The Bible's stories are not.
You are free to voice your opinion as you deem fit. Do you acknowledge the existence of spirit? It sounds like you do.
Yes I do. I am not Atheist, and I hope I did not come off as one. I am just not Christian. I believe God is far more complex than the Bible dictates. But yes, I do beleive in the spirit.
However, I do not believe that the spirit is limitted to human beings. I beleive every living animal and plant as spirit, as well as the Earth itself. The spirit is not exclusive to the human race.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17
For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.
I don't understand why you are quoting this....again......?
If God were not love then how do you explain the above Scriptures?
You didn't address my points. The above scriptures are simply writings, and nothing more. They still contradict what God's actions in the Old Testament. Why do you not address my points and instead resort to copy and pasting something you already posted ?
Come on JIA...you can do better than that, can't you ?
God is the Judge of all the earth—and the Creator of all flesh—yep, including you. As such, God reserves the right to terminate your life contract as it were at His discretion. In addition, God is Creator of the earth—according to the Scriptures—hence, He has the right to do with this planet whatever He wishes. Stop and think about: what do you own? Do you own a car, house, or watch? Let me stop here because I was about to use an analogy but it wouldn’t work because you are not God. God’s authority is different from human right or authority because of Who He is.
This does not address anything though.
Power does not give you the right to torture or condemn a living thing. If I create a child by having sex with a woman, do I have the right to torture my child ?
Do I have the right to torture and kill small animals, because I am smarter and more powerful ?
IT seems to me that many Christians who sympathize with the Old Testament version of God, think morality is definite, up until it comes to God. God is somehow beyond morality and can break his own rules.
This is the contradiction I have problems with.
What do you claim that I claim? I don't know that I claim anything as such, but I do present what the Scriptures reveal.
You claim the scriptures as fact. Unless you can prove the validity of the scriptures, then you cannot correctly claim them as fact. Do you understand ?
Thank God we (believers) are not responsible for proving that the Gospel or the Scriptures for that matter is true. That is not our department. [/B][/QUOTE]
You're missing the point though.
You can't claim your belief as fact. You don't have to prove anything as long as it remains a belief. But when you try to pass off your believe as fact, then you are being intentionally incorrect. Facts are proven information, and if not proven, supported by immense physical and/or observed evidense.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive88 of the universe is made up of dark matter, which is the only substance that doesnt give off light. so therefore space is something
Vacuum energy and zero point energy are synonymous. Notwithstanding, both are still "something." Just because the universe (i.e. space) is presumably and for discussion sake devoid of matter, that does not mean that there is nothingness. Besides, "space" is a something...where did it originate?
Originally posted by The big EHThe theory of dark matter doesn't disprove empty space, if that's what you are trying to imply. I can back this up but I'm hoping you'll just take my word for it.
88 of the universe is made up of dark matter, which is the only substance that doesnt give off light. so therefore space is something
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Prove to me that nothingness is stable.It does make sense, but you are thinking 3 dimensionally. You have to think 4 dimensionally.
The edge of the cosmos is not in the direction of the past. The past goes on for eternity.
What is outside of the universe (including heaven and god)?
My premise is that nothingness is neither stable nor unstable because it denotes non-existence.
Again, I never said that any Bible story was proven (at least I don’t recall stating this). The Bible must be accepted by faith because there is no way for me to prove that all of the events and situations happened as recorded therein.
Okay, I understand your analogy.
I assumed you were trying to compare the theory of gravity to the story of creation in terms of something unseen being unprovable. If that were the case, you would have been incorrect.
Your Faith is your choice, and I am not trying to get you to justify your faith. However, you cannot pass off your faith as fact. Your faith is belief, not fact. No one needs to have faith in gravity, because gravity is supported by tremendous evidence. The Bible's stories are not.
But you give credence to the Scriptures when you cite these examples in support of your premise that:
If God was love he would not have:
-burnt down two cities killing men, women, and children
-produced the Great Flood which was mass genocide
-banished Adam and Eve to hard lives, because they broke one rule
-banishes those who do not believe in him to Hell
-ordered the torture of his own son, simply so he wouldn't torture everyone else
-kill the first born sons of Egypt
-send other plagues of starvation and illness upon Egypt
-burn a woman to ash because she looked back at her home city
and so on.
The God of the Bible is immature, and has killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. So please re-evaluate what you personify as love.
Again, does not the potter have power over the clay? Does not the artist exercise arbitrary decisions over what stroke to apply, how much paint to use, or the size of the canvas? Why does the musician have so much control over the notes that he composes or the songwriter the choice of words that he puts into writing? Why do authors reserve so much authority over their writings? All human creators--in the arts--carry out their prerogatives daily yet when God does it over His creation people want to have a fit.
This is very hypocritical.
Does not the manufacturer of any product have total control over how that product looks, feels, tastes, behaves, smells, functions, etc? Have you ever destroyed something that you owned SpearofDestiny? I surmise that you have destroyed things that you did not manufacture and yet you did it without compunction or any feeling of wrong. I know that these are crude examples, but it was the best that I could do at this time.
Yes I do. I am not Atheist, and I hope I did not come off as one. I am just not Christian. I believe God is far more complex than the Bible dictates. But yes, I do beleive in the spirit.
However, I do not believe that the spirit is limitted to human beings. I beleive every living animal and plant as spirit, as well as the Earth itself. The spirit is not exclusive to the human race.
What is your definition of "spirit?"
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17
For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.
I don't understand why you are quoting this....again......?
I used the above Scriptures to support my belief that God is love in stark contrast to your claim to the contrary.
If God were not love then how do you explain the above Scriptures?
You didn't address my points. The above scriptures are simply writings, and nothing more. They still contradict what God's actions in the Old Testament. Why do you not address my points and instead resort to copy and pasting something you already posted ?
Come on JIA...you can do better than that, can't you ?
Earlier you cited instances that you believe support your assertions that God must not be loving, but when I quote Scriptures in support of my belief you discount them as simply writings. Hmmm...I wonder why.
God is the Judge of all the earth—and the Creator of all flesh—yep, including you. As such, God reserves the right to terminate your life contract as it were at His discretion. In addition, God is Creator of the earth—according to the Scriptures—hence, He has the right to do with this planet whatever He wishes. Stop and think about: what do you own? Do you own a car, house, or watch? Let me stop here because I was about to use an analogy but it wouldn’t work because you are not God. God’s authority is different from human right or authority because of Who He is.
This does not address anything though.
Power does not give you the right to torture or condemn a living thing. If I create a child by having sex with a woman, do I have the right to torture my child ?
Do I have the right to torture and kill small animals, because I am smarter and more powerful ?
IT seems to me that many Christians who sympathize with the Old Testament version of God, think morality is definite, up until it comes to God. God is somehow beyond morality and can break his own rules.
This is the contradiction I have problems with.
They only appear to be contradictions because (perhaps) you do not understand how God operates. Hang in there though.
What do you claim that I claim? I don't know that I claim anything as such, but I do present what the Scriptures reveal.
You claim the scriptures as fact. Unless you can prove the validity of the scriptures, then you cannot correctly claim them as fact. Do you understand ?
I believe the Scriptures are true. Conversely, you believe the Bible to be simply writings. I guess we are at a stalemate.
Thank God we (believers) are not responsible for proving that the Gospel or the Scriptures for that matter is true. That is not our department.
You're missing the point though.
You can't claim your belief as fact. You don't have to prove anything as long as it remains a belief. But when you try to pass off your believe as fact, then you are being intentionally incorrect. Facts are proven information, and if not proven, supported by immense physical and/or observed evidense.
Your disbelief and my belief are equally valid or invalid depending one's point of view. I cannot prove that my belief is true and you cannot disprove it. Again, we are at a draw in this regard.
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
quote:
There is no way to prove that God exists.quote:
Just admit that there is NO WAY TO PROVE THAT GOD EXISTS
Im gonna assume that what youve posted is sarcasm. But for those who dont, sucks to believe and waste your life on something that has no credible proof of existence like all IMAGINARY beings do.
You might want to think otherwise but honestly if you admit that there is no way to prove that your god exists, then your god is nothing more than just an over-glorified Boogeyman. I do believe that worshipping/believing/having faith in one's delusions is a fom of lunacy and delusional lunatics are not reasonable people for their points to be taken seriously.
To give JIA a recap:
1.Find credible (credible, as in NOT through blind faith. Remember the "proofs" in the Bible require blind faith.) proof to back-up your assumption that your god - the Christian God - exists.
Once that's done then we could proceed to number two . . . .
2. Find credible proof to back-up your assumption that your god - the Christian God - SPECIFICALLY is the Creator/Designer of the Universe?
The second part should be pretty straighforward once you cleared the first hurdle.
As a friendly reminder, avoid using unknown mysteries (the unproven existence of spirits) to prove another unknown mystery (the unproven existence of god).
Originally posted by Templares
Im gonna assume that what youve posted is sarcasm. But for those who dont, sucks to believe and waste your life on something that has no credible proof of existence like all IMAGINARY beings do.You might want to think otherwise but honestly if you admit that there is no way to prove that your god exists, then your god is nothing more than just an over-glorified Boogeyman. I do believe that worshipping/believing/having faith in one's delusions is a fom of lunacy and delusional lunatics are not reasonable people for their points to be taken seriously.
To give JIA a recap:
1.Find credible (credible, as in NOT through blind faith. Remember the "proofs" in the Bible require blind faith.) proof to back-up your assumption that your god - the Christian God - exists.
Once that's done then we could proceed to number two . . . .
2. Find credible proof to back-up your assumption that your god - the Christian God - SPECIFICALLY is the Creator/Designer of the Universe?
The second part should be pretty straighforward once you cleared the first hurdle.
As a friendly reminder, avoid using unknown mysteries (the unproven existence of spirits) to prove another unknown mystery (the unproven existence of god).
I will absolutely do this just as soon as I get the memo from God to do it (I already told you that proving God's existence is not my department nor is it my responsibility).
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
But are nothing and nothingness the same thing ?
I created a post just below the above quote in response to yours.
Now, nothing and nothingness are not synonymous to me. To me "nothingness" is non-existence of something, whereas nothing is simply the absence of a thing that exists.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I will absolutely do this just as soon as I get the memo from God to do it (I already told you that proving God's existence is not my department nor is it my responsibility).
Then why should we attach the creation of the Universe to something IMAGINARY or doesnt exist?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then prove to me that nothingness is not unstable.
You just rephrased the exact same proposition (nice try though). For me to prove to you that nothingness is not unstable is the same as proving to you that nothingness is stable. Not unstable means "stable." But I already told you that nothingness is neither stable nor unstable because it denotes non-existence.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Have a paradigm shift. You keep referring to God as imaginary (this is your default position). Start with God existing (as revealed to us by the Scriptures).
Paradigm shift? 😆 😆 😆 Bwahaha.
Just a fancy way of saying JUST BELIEVE EVEN THOUGH THE EVIDENCE IS LACKING.
*cough*blind faith*cough*
Like all imaginary beings like the Easter bunny, god is none-existant unless the evidence proves otherwise.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You just rephrased the exact same proposition (nice try though). For me to prove to you that nothingness is not unstable is the same as proving to you that nothingness is stable. Not unstable means "stable." But I already told you that nothingness is neither stable nor unstable because it denotes non-existence.
And that is why nothingness is unstable. Thank you for supporting my position. Non-existence is unstable.