Can you handle the Truth?

Yes, I have taken the life of many insects, and I have eaten many plants, and I have also eaten animals who have been killed by other people.

I am a human being though, who is imperfect.

If God is my moral superior, how could he perform the same actions that a human being like me would ?

And like I stated earlier...whether a human being tortures me, or whether God tortures me, ultamately makes no diference if I am still being tortured. God committing the evil act does not make it a good act. The act itself is still sadistic and cruel, regardless of whose inflicting it.

Do you understand ?

You do not have the authority to take a life as God does. You are comparing sunflower seeds to pumpkins and cornstalks. God has the right to take life you do not. If you had the right to take a life you could murder someone just because and not be punished for it. God takes lives all the time and He has never been arrested and thrown in jail for it. Do you know why? (I think you know why.)

Yes, but it fails.

Just because I give birth to a child does not mean I have the right to torture him or her.

If I had the power to breathe life into a clay model, that does not mean I have the right to make it suffer. The clay model never asked to be born, just like human beings never asked to be born and put through a trial of heaven and hell.

Giving birth and creating life and the planet that that life lives on are totally different. God has created within His creation the capacity to reproduce. Humans do not create life they reproduce life (there is a great difference between the two).

Originally posted by Da Pittman
This is where you fail and the argument that you use and other to support God, you want to use science to back up your claim but when it comes down to God you throw it out the window. Were everything in the universe must follow the laws this doesn’t apply to God which is so much BS. If you plan on using science to back up your claim then you must use science all the way, you can not just turn off the scientific principal when you come to explaining your God. You are willing to support the scientific part of your argument when you think in supports your view but when God is involved he doesn’t have to follow anything and defies all.

😆 😆😆 😆😆 😆 Don't tell me you actually believe what you just wrote 😱

Absolutely pal.

not really, the creation of life is the first life. reproducing is creating another life.

and again 'missed' my previous post

Originally posted by The big EH
life feeds on life this is necessary, i'm not arguing that. and god does do those things, if he is all controlling than he could prevent so many wrongs in the world (i.e. disasterous hurricanes, terrorism, war, holocaust, other genocides) but the fact that he doesn't means one of 3 possibilities. 1. he doesn't give a damn and never will 2. he is a cruel bastard who gets his kicks from suffering or 3. he just doesnt exist

f*cking A spearofdestiny

man i cant wait till 2012

So you are justifying your actions? Why don't you just create your own nourishment so that you don't have to take the life of another organism? God does not need food or water so He is above reproach. God takes lives in judgement for sin (just like He should do to maintain law and order for the good of all). You take life for selfish reasons to keep yourself alive. Who is more reprehensible you or God? God is not the one who let death (and all of its manifestations) into the world His creation did that. Don't blame God for our actions. We have harmed our environment, committed terrorism, and waged war time and time again. Don't blame God for our foolishness and sin. We need to take responsibilities for our own actions. If Adam had never disobeyed God's law in the first place death would never have had stronghold in our lives or environment. Adam let death in when he sinned. God told Adam what would happen if He stepped outside of the boundaries that He had established to ensure Adam and Eve's highest good. Yet, Adam--just like us--used His free will outside of God's established parameters and it resulted in death. Similarly, you, me, and everyone else exercise our free will outside of the boundaries set up by society and it results in some type of death i.e. a DUI, jail, fines, or other forms of punishment.

The reason for death is sin--humanity's sin--not God's apparent lack of action to stop anything. Stop passing the buck.

Originally posted by The big EH
not really, the creation of life is the first life. reproducing is creating another life.

and again 'missed' my previous post

How do you figure? God created the first man and woman and created within them the capacity to reproduce. So God is still the Creator and humanity the reproducer.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So you are justifying your actions? Why don't you just create your own nourishment so that you don't have to take the life of another organism? God does not need food or water so He is above reproach. [b]God takes lives in judgement for sin (just like He should do to maintain law and order for the good of all). You take life for selfish reasons to keep yourself alive. Who is more reprehensible you or God? God is not the one who let death (and all of its manifestations) into the world His creation did that. Don't blame God for our actions. We have harmed our environment, committed terrorism, and waged war time and time again. Don't blame God for our foolishness and sin. We need to take responsibilities for our own actions. If Adam had never disobeyed God's law in the first place death would never have had stronghold in our lives or environment. Adam let death in when he sinned. The reason for death is sin--humanity's sin not God's apparent lack of action to stop anything. Stop passing the buck. [/B]

and further more you are blaming one man (real or not) for all the wrong in the universe

and how the fuk does 'god' being the creatorhave anything to do with th difference between creating and reprodcing, or is that just your answe to everything?

Originally posted by The big EH
so god damned a species for he act of one man? and i cant create my own nurishment, god made me the way i am, he made everything like that (except plants but they also have no conscious) if he didnt intend ors to feed off other life, he would have made it so. an i highly doubt you have neer killed

and further more you are blaming one man (real or not) for all the wrong in the universe

and how the fuk does 'god' being the creatorhave anything to do with th difference between creating and reprodcing, or is that just your answe to everything?

God didn't damn anyone: Adam damned himself. Adam's sin lead to death, not God's judgment. The moment Adam chose to step outside of God's law/Word/will (they are synonymous terms) he reaped death because his sin immediately separated him from God. God is life so to be disconnected from life results in nothing other than death. But the point is that Adam caused it not God. God told Adam what to do to stay hooked up as it were to eternal life, good, and blessings, and warned him of what would happen if he became disconnected as it were from God.

I didn't say that it was wrong to eat other animals or plant material. I simply used it to explain the point that if God is wrong for taking lives (that He created in the first place) you, me, and everyone else are more wrong for taking lives because we have not created them.

I didn't blame one man for everything wrong in the universe. I said that Adam let death into the world. But I also said in previous posts that if each one of us looked in the mirror we would discover that none of us are above reproach before God (i.e. all of us have sinned and fall short of the glory of God).

i suggest you wait for 2012, then see wat happens

but anyway there is clearly no way you will ever think that the most retarded religion in the world is wrong, so i give up, your ignoence is pathetic, and pray i dont run into you in real life

Originally posted by The big EH
i suggest you wait for 2012, then see wat happens

but anyway there is clearly no way you will ever think that the most retarded religion in the world is wrong, so i give up, your ignoence is pathetic, and pray i dont run into you in real life

The Bible does not say that the world will end in 2012.

read closer

Originally posted by The big EH
read closer

The Scriptures do not give any specific date about the end of the world.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God didn't damn anyone: Adam damned himself. [B]Adam's sin lead to death, not God's judgment. The moment Adam chose to step outside of God's law/Word/will (they are synonymous terms) he reaped death because his sin immediately separated him from God. God is life so to be disconnected from life results in nothing other than death. But the point is that Adam caused it not God. God told Adam what to do to stay hooked up as it were to eternal life, good, and blessings, and warned him of what would happen if he became disconnected as it were from God.

I didn't say that it was wrong to eat other animals or plant material. I simply used it to explain the point that if God is wrong for taking lives (that He created in the first place) you, me, and everyone else are more wrong for taking lives because we have not created them.

I didn't blame one man for everything wrong in the universe. I said that Adam let death into the world. But I also said in previous posts that if each one of us looked in the mirror we would discover that none of us are above reproach before God (i.e. all of us have sinned and fall short of the glory of God). [/B]

The problem with this JIA is that I do not feel responsible for anything my parents, or grandparents, or great grandparents have done.

Are all white people responsible for past slavery ?

Are all Germans responsible for what the Nazis have done?

Also, no human being asked to be born. We weren't given a choice. We were all forced into existence through the union of our mothers and fathers.

It's kind of hypocritical for God to give us life as a gift, with Hell as a possible price to pay for it.

You do not have the authority to take a life as God does. You are comparing sunflower seeds to pumpkins and cornstalks. God has the right to take life you do not. If you had the right to take a life you could murder someone just because and not be punished for it. God takes lives all the time and He has never been arrested and thrown in jail for it. Do you know why? (I think you know why.)

I never claimed to have the right to take life. But if taking life is evil, then it is evil regardless of who does it. So it doesn't matter if a mortal human being or an all powerful deity do it. It's the same action, done by different people.

It's still an evil act (if it is deemed evil in the first place).

Giving birth and creating life and the planet that that life lives on are totally different. God has created within His creation the capacity to reproduce. Humans do not create life they reproduce life (there is a great difference between the two). [/B][/QUOTE]

Understood.

But even If I had the power to create life from nothing, what gives me the right to deem this new life to suffering or death? Would it still not be cruelty either way, or would I somehow be exempt from cruelty because of my status as a creator?

Or lets put it this way:

If I take organic or inorganic materials, and create an artificial being (let's say like Frankenstein), and this being has feelings, responses, all the possibly human and animal like qualities I can mimic for it.

It's an artificial intelligence, but with emotions and conciousness nonetheless.

Would I somehow have the right to kill or torture the living being, simply because I created it ?

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
You do not have the authority to take a life as God does. You are comparing sunflower seeds to pumpkins and cornstalks. God has the [B]right to take life you do not. If you had the right to take a life you could murder someone just because and not be punished for it. God takes lives all the time and He has never been arrested and thrown in jail for it. Do you know why? (I think you know why.)

I never claimed to have the right to take life. But if taking life is evil, then it is evil regardless of who does it. So it doesn't matter if a mortal human being or an all powerful deity do it. It's the same action, done by different people.

It's still an evil act (if it is deemed evil in the first place).
[/B]

Everything created, even conceptual things were created by God, then everything depends on his to exist, good and evil are defined from the idea of God or they are not objectively good and evil.

Real definitions come from God, you cannot define God by partial definitions created by human logic. What you call an evil act is a roughly sketch of evil as men can see it or predict it, its hardly similar to the conceptual concept of evil.

The problem with this JIA is that I do not feel responsible for anything my parents, or grandparents, or great grandparents have done.

And you shouldn't feel responsible for what they have done.

Are all white people responsible for past slavery ?

Are all Germans responsible for what the Nazis have done?

No, they are not.

Also, no human being asked to be born. We weren't given a choice. We were all forced into existence through the union of our mothers and fathers.

That is no excuse for committing sin. We are responsible for our own, individual actions.

It's kind of hypocritical for God to give us life as a gift, with Hell as a possible price to pay for it.

Hell is prepared for the devil and his angels (i.e. demons). Hell was never created for humanity, but for the evil one and his minions. But...Hell has room for all who sin, not just rebellious angels. The devil and his angels chose to exercise their free will to disobey God and consign themselves to eternal punishment. The difference between them and people is that they don't have the opportunity for redemption. They are lost forever for their insurrection.

You do not have the authority to take a life as God does. You are comparing sunflower seeds to pumpkins and cornstalks. God has the right to take life you do not. If you had the right to take a life you could murder someone just because and not be punished for it. God takes lives all the time and He has never been arrested and thrown in jail for it. Do you know why? (I think you know why.)

I never claimed to have the right to take life. But if taking life is evil, then it is evil regardless of who does it. So it doesn't matter if a mortal human being or an all powerful deity do it. It's the same action, done by different people.

It's still an evil act (if it is deemed evil in the first place).

But taking life is not evil if God does it. Again, you need to have a shift in your thinking. God is not held to the same constraints that humans or animals are held to. God is above all, His authority transcends all authority. For example, in society the Supreme Court is the highest judicial court in the land. The buck stops with them. With one rap of the gavel they have the power to decide someone's life....Now, back to God. God is superior to the Supreme Court. With one act of His will God has the power to decide the fate of the entire universe....

Do you follow me?

If you can understand the purview (in terms of extent of power) of the Supreme Court then you should see be able to understand God's range, sweep, and scope of divine right and privelege as King and Judge of the universe. It is much more transcendent and lofty than the measly Supreme Court of the United States.

Giving birth and creating life and the planet that that life lives on are totally different. God has created within His creation the capacity to reproduce. Humans do not create life they reproduce life (there is a great difference between the two).

Understood.

But even If I had the power to create life from nothing, what gives me the right to deem this new life to suffering or death? Would it still not be cruelty either way, or would I somehow be exempt from cruelty because of my status as a creator?

Suffering was introduced by Adam and his descendants (i.e. us) not God. God put Adam and Eve in a pristine environment, surrounded by every possible amenity that would secure and maintain their highest good, welfare, benefit, and blessing. Through one man's selfish, foolish, sinful action all of that was lost/forfeited in exchange for death, scarcity, disease, lack, pain, natural disaster, etc. You keep putting the blame in God's court but it belongs in ours. We--just like our great ancestor Adam--continue to sin instead of obeying God. Then we wonder why we keep reaping death, pain, disease, lack, etc.

Or lets put it this way:

If I take organic or inorganic materials, and create an artificial being (let's say like Frankenstein), and this being has feelings, responses, all the possibly human and animal like qualities I can mimic for it.

It's an artificial intelligence, but with emotions and conciousness nonetheless.

Would I somehow have the right to kill or torture the living being, simply because I created it ?

You would have the right to do with your frankenstein whatever you wish just like God. The difference between you and God is that you are not love, righteous, good, loving-kind, by nature so you probably would harm your own creation. God does not do this. But again, God does on occasion move in judgment for the good of all and take life just like in the flood. Here is the thing that gets glossed over and ignored time and time again: people seem fixated on only the moment that God must execute judgment, but compeletly ignore all of the love that He extends repeatedly before moving in judgment.

God's nature is to extend mercy not administer punishiment. But what people do is ignore, spit on, and trample on God's patience and love until He says enough. The last thing that God wants to do is judge you or anyone else but He will eventually. Don't think that just because God is slow to anger that He will fail to do what He must do. All throughout the Scriptures there are accounts after accounts of God sending prophets to warn nations of of their rampant, repeated, shameless sins, and God's impending judgment. Why doesn't God just judge them without protracted, repeated warnings? God is waiting for the sinner to repent and turn to Him just as in our day and time. Why doesn't God just hurl a fire ball towards the earth and end it all? God is long-suffering not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. God doesn't want one sinner to die and go to Hell for eternity. He wants everyone to repent and be saved.

In actuality, people reap what they sow and then blame God for it. They lie, steal, cheat, or give the devil a place in their lives then when something bad happens, they point their boney little finger at God and blame Him for their stupidity.

Originally posted by Bentley
Everything created, even conceptual things were created by God, then everything depends on his to exist, good and evil are defined from the idea of God or they are not objectively good and evil.

Real definitions come from God, you cannot define God by partial definitions created by human logic. What you call an evil act is a roughly sketch of evil as men can see it or predict it, its hardly similar to the conceptual concept of evil.

I can see your point.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So you are justifying your actions? Why don't you just create your own nourishment so that you don't have to take the life of another organism? God does not need food or water so He is above reproach. [b]God takes lives in judgement for sin (just like He should do to maintain law and order for the good of all). You take life for selfish reasons to keep yourself alive. Who is more reprehensible you or God? God is not the one who let death (and all of its manifestations) into the world His creation did that. Don't blame God for our actions. We have harmed our environment, committed terrorism, and waged war time and time again. Don't blame God for our foolishness and sin. We need to take responsibilities for our own actions. If Adam had never disobeyed God's law in the first place death would never have had stronghold in our lives or environment. Adam let death in when he sinned. God told Adam what would happen if He stepped outside of the boundaries that He had established to ensure Adam and Eve's highest good. Yet, Adam--just like us--used His free will outside of God's established parameters and it resulted in death. Similarly, you, me, and everyone else exercise our free will outside of the boundaries set up by society and it results in some type of death i.e. a DUI, jail, fines, or other forms of punishment.

The reason for death is sin--humanity's sin--not God's apparent lack of action to stop anything. Stop passing the buck. [/B]

Originally posted by Da Pittman
If God created all and knows all and sees all then he is responsible for all. It is simple as that, if he has the right to take the life of his creation then he also has the liability of his creation too, he can't have it one way and not the to other.

But god is transcending. That is the perfect loop hole. You see, god gets his cake and gets to eat it too. The bible is the first Marvel comic, and god is the big dark superhero. 😂

Originally posted by Da Pittman
If God created all and knows all and sees all then he is responsible for all. It is simple as that, if he has the right to take the life of his creation then he also has the liability of his creation too, he can't have it one way and not the to other.

Hypothetically speaking let's say you have an 18 yr old son. Now, your adult son runs out murders someone then comes back home as if nothing happened. Who do you think is responsible for that crime, you the father or your son?