Originally posted by The big EH
like i said i dont know, read before you type, i've hardly touched a bible but when it comes to things being in it, i trust a fundamentalist christian
I have heard something very similar to this before...I can't remember where. However, I have never realized scripture like that from the bible.
Originally posted by Templares
Testimony from what "experts"? Ghosts? Comatose patients sufferering from delusions due to carbon dioxide build up and oxygen starvation in their brains?Afterlife=adult's Neverland
It really doesn’t matter because your mind appears to already be decided on the issue.
A washing machine is man-made thats why its a product of design. It doesnt naturally occur. All man made objects implies that they are a product of design. We learn that through experience.The Universe, taken as a whole, is a natural object - so far, there is a natural explanation for everything - thats why it is NOT a product of design. That and the fact that we havent even experienced or encountered a supernatural phenomena, much less a supernatural being for real, makes the idea of a supernatural Universal Designer very unlikely.
Remember, natural objects like snowflakes can fool the unwary to think that they are a product of design.
So, your rationale is that only “human-made” things are products of design. Well, I beg to differ. Natural explanations do not rule out supernatural cause. For example, where did matter come from? Nothing material has always existed. Case in point, this universe is still expanding which means that it had a starting point. Since the universe had a starting point this precludes any theory or claims that the universe is eternal. Now, where did the matter, space, and time come from?
I understand your comparison, but a snowflake is a very poor illustration of something that appears to be complex but (which) has a natural explanation relative to the universe. This universe is vast and it has definite laws that can be harnessed for human good. Everything that is necessary for life to exist on this earth occurs or is present in this universe. All of the right coincidences just happen to occur in all of the right places, and in all of the most opportune ways.
Bwahaha.[/b]Of course they are NOT. These are the Messianic prophecies that Jesus FAILED, havent i made that clear. The same Messianic prophecies set down by the Jews, the folks who created the concept of the Messiah. The same concept that Christianity copied albeit, twisted and misinterpreted to fit their own religious dogma. Since Jesus FAILED these prophecies, he is definitely NOT the Messiah.
Christians are not the ones with the authority to say what constitutes a Messianic prophecy or not because theyre not the ones who came up with the idea on the first place. Those prophecies stick and are glaring contradictions to Jesus' claims of Messiahship. [b]You cant claim Jesus to be the Messiah and just cherry-pick the prophecies that support his messiah profile while dismissing the rest.
I got that list of Messianic prophecies a long time ago on a Wikipage about the Jewish Messiah.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah#Scriptural_Requirements
The external links are fun to use against Christians.
Templares, it appears that you have made several mistakes. 99.9% of your scriptural references have nothing to do with Jesus. Jesus has not failed any prophecy written concerning Him. I went through each one and explained why 99.9% of them are not about Jesus.
Why quantum mechanics of course! Saying simply god did it explains nothingon the"how" did god created something from nothing. Just another baseless assumption. Might as well raise the ignorance flag and say"its magic."I'll just post my previous post again:
To assume that god designed/created the universe has MORE baseless assumptions attach to it than saying the Big Bang. First you have to assume that a religious concept like god exists, he is supernatural, he is eternal or at least exist before the Big Bang (uncaused), he has the power to create a universe, and that he is indeed the designer (and not some other god, basically you would also have to prove that there is only one god if youre into monotheism). That is at least 5 baseless assumptions with zero emprical evidence backing it, relying only on blind faith. The Big Bang's existence is backed by solid emprical evidence and its one assumption, that it is uncaused could be explained by quantum mechanics which states that the so called law of causality breaks down at fundamental levels.
I have told you how on more than one occasion. God created the universe through spoken words.
I do not have to prove anything.
The universe had to have a cause because existence is the product of a stimulus. Everything in this world has a cause (you have yet to disprove this fact).
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveJIA, don’t you know what the Big Bang theory is? By this statement I believe you do not, also the Big Bang theory is just one of many theories of how the universe was created such as the M-Theory, Many-Worlds and Multiverse just to name a few.
So, your rationale is that only “human-made” things are products of design. Well, I beg to differ. Natural explanations do not rule out supernatural cause. For example, where did matter come from? Nothing material has always existed. Case in point, this universe is still expanding which means that it had a starting point. Since the universe had a starting point this precludes any theory or claims that the universe is eternal. Now, where did the matter, space, and time come from?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
...The universe had to have a cause because existence is the product of a stimulus. Everything in this world has a cause (you have yet to disprove this fact).
Why do you believe that the universe must have a cause? You believe that the god of the bible does not have a cause, so why would the universe require a cause? Also, if the universe had a cause and the god of the bible did not, then why is there a double standard?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why do you believe that the universe must have a cause? You believe that the god of the bible does not have a cause, so why would the universe require a cause? Also, if the universe had a cause and the god of the bible did not, then why is there a double standard?
God is a Spirit; hence, He is not subject to the laws that material things are bound to.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God is a Spirit; hence, He is not subject to the laws that material things are bound to.
What is a spirit, and why is it not bound to the laws that material things are bound to? I think you are making this up as you go.
What makes the law of gravity the law of gravity is the fact that everywhere you go in the universe you will find gravity and it will work in the same way. If a spirit is not affected by gravity, then gravity is not a law but a localized phenomenon. If that is the case, then we cannot know anything.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The Second Law of Thermodynamics does not testify. Here is the Second Law of Thermodynamics:
“The second law of thermodynamics is an expression of the universal law of increasing entropy, stating that the entropy of an isolated system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium.”
You are misapplying the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The universe is not winding down; the universe is heading toward equilibrium.
No, the second law of thermodynamics substantiates the fact that all things tend toward entropy (i.e. disorder). This is a scientific fact. http://objectiveministries.org/creation/slot.html
This is a statement with no proof. It is simply the opinion of the writer who has already shown that they have a limited knowledge of Thermodynamics. I would not trust this person!
No proof for entropy? Just look around, in fact just look in the mirror. Now, ask yourself: are you getting younger or older? Are you getting more life or using up life? Are you getting closer to the fountain of youth or closer to the grave. Entropy is a fact.
It is not a fact, and I have shown you why.
You have not shown me why this is not a fact.
I did, over and over again. I have gone into great detail in the past showing how you and other Christian propagandists have miss used the Second Law of Thermodynamics to support their claims.
How?
A better education on your part would help you understand what I am saying. Propaganda? The above misapplied Second Law of Thermodynamics is a good example of propaganda.
No comment.
I will not play this game.
No comment.
Karma is a way to describe the cause and effect over time.
But, karma is not change.
What is change, to you?
Not karma.
No, Merriam-Websters online dictionary defines change as: CHANGE implies making either an essential difference often amounting to a loss of original identity or a substitution of one thing for another. That does not sound like karma to me.
That is a very pore description of Karma. It is also a very Western interpretation. Here is a better description:http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=447678
No comment.
It has not been determined that the universe had a starting point. If you had more education on the subject, you would realize the idea of a beginning is an old idea that is no longer supported. The only thing we know about the beginning of the universe is that we do not know.
Sure it has, the universe is still expanding at the rate that God spoke it into existence. Hubble’s Law confirms this fact.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
You keep saying that something can’t come from nothing, so where did God come from? If sprits are not subject to material things then how are our spirits tied to our bodies?
I never said that. I said no material thing can come from nothing (apart from God).
I have told you a number of times that God has no beginning or end (i.e. God is eternal). God is the First Cause (which means that He is the uncaused Causer of all things). God is a Spirit and He is not subject to this world that He created. On the contrary, this world is subject to God.
The Scriptures do not reveal how our spirits are able to inhabit our physical bodies.