Can you handle the Truth?

Originally posted by Devil King
At the end of the day, the argument that homosexuality is wrong because the bible says so is a cop-out. It's wrong, in your opinion, because that is your opinion, not because you think that one regulation should be honoured above all others that have been abandoned over the centuries. It's just a convenient scapegoat for your own disdain.

Why is it a cop-out? The Koran also says its wrong. When people point at either the Bible or Koran for why something is wrong, they're pointing it out in a document, not their opinion.

It's not my opinion that I have the right to Due Process and legal counsel, I can point it out to you in a document.

Originally posted by Devil King
I like how that figure is always used to validate their religious choice. Like 1 billion people some how proves that christianity is right. The only problem is that there are 6 billion people on the planet. And 1 billion of them are Chinese communists. Does that figure somehow validate their political beliefs?

Not all of them support communism. Many don't like communism, their govt just happens to be commies.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
It just occurred to me that you are very cynical. Can you handle this observation? It just dawned on me: you do not believe the woman under discussion's testimony and you don't believe that I have never used drugs--not even once. I am referring to illegal drugs. I have taken over-the-counter drugs (who hasn't), but I have never (and I will never) use illegal drugs. Why is this so difficult for you to handle/believe? There are some people out there that have self-discipline, self-control, and do not cave in to peer pressure of the lust of the flesh (with regard to using illegal drugs).

Anyhoo, it feels great to be drug free since birth.

😄

Have you ever used legal drugs for recreation? Maybe experience the floating third-person sensation and constant euphoria of oxycodene?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Why is it a cop-out? The Koran also says its wrong. When people point at either the Bible or Koran for why something is wrong, they're pointing it out in a document, not their opinion.

It's not my opinion that I have the right to Due Process and legal counsel, I can point it out to you in a document.

Not all of them support communism. Many don't like communism, their govt just happens to be commies.

Have you ever used legal drugs for recreation? Maybe experience the floating third-person sensation and constant euphoria of oxycodene?

No, I have never used legal drugs for anything other than their intended purpose.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
It just occurred to me that you are very cynical. Can you handle this observation? It just dawned on me: you do not believe the woman under discussion's testimony and you don't believe that I have never used drugs--not even once. I am referring to illegal drugs. I have taken over-the-counter drugs (who hasn't), but I have never (and I will never) use illegal drugs. Why is this so difficult for you to handle/believe? There are some people out there that have self-discipline, self-control, and do not cave in to peer pressure of the lust of the flesh (with regard to using illegal drugs).

Anyhoo, it feels great to be drug free since birth.

😄

As for the drugs you have never stated that it was "illegal" drugs, just drugs as you so like to nit-pick with words so often. As for being "illegal" that is a different matter all together, many "illegal" drugs are prescribed by doctors each and every day, if you ever had pain medication then you have had “illegal” drugs.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't recall what we were discussing but there was some reason why I did not trust what you were stating. For this reason, I did not believe you. Care to refresh my memory of what we were discussing? I don't recall using the word "liar," but I may have stated that I did not believe you (there is a huge difference). Why do you keep bringing up the Golden Compass?

But...you are a sinner if you do not know Jesus Christ. This is a designation for all people who are not saved or born again through faith in Jesus Christ. That is not a put down it is reality according to the Scriptures.

Rude and arrogant are opinions so I'll take that. Selfish and hateful? I don't see the connection there.

Has it ever occurred to you Da Pittman that I choose who I want to respond to? There are a multitude of people that I don't respond to and yet I don't see you bringing them up. Better yet, there are a plethora of KMC members that do not respond to me (I ain't crying and complaining). It is what it is. It is life. I lose about this much sleep _ every night over it. No, really I reserve the right (just as you do) to respond to whomever I choose. I feel absolutely no guilt about the matter if you really must know the truth (well, actually I feel a little because my aim is not to offend anyone). Besides, I cannot save anyone (that is Jesus' job not mine).

I am not here to promote my opinions. Force? So, I use the force to make you believe the Bible? Just kidding. How come every time a Christian opens his mouth he is forcing his beliefs on someone? I thought that we were going back and forth presenting our viewpoints. I can keep on going like the Energizer rabbit, but I surmise that you cannot handle the truth? No?

Lately, I have simply been responding to your posts and you have reciprocated. But you see my dialogue as an adventure in conversion.

My belief would not be shattered it would be compromised if I was on here promoting my ideas. You know, that is what got Adam into trouble back in the Garden of Eden. He tried to have a thought independent of His Heavenly Father, and do his own thing. Look what happened as a result: sin, death, pain, suffering, the curse, sickness, disease, and eternal damnation.

As for compassion and knowledge, I am a work in progess, but I am very optimistic.

🙂

The difference is that you are only here to try and convert people to your faith or two shatter other beliefs, you have no other purpose in talking about religion. Not every Christian tries to force their beliefs but you do it all the time, hell look at the title of this thread alone. I keep bringing up the Golden Compass because with the simple jest that Shaky said you told him that you will never speak with him again and when I do it you keep one keeping on, so what make him so special that you would forsake him to suffer in Hell and not try and save him? (Since this is your only reason for posting)

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Why is it a cop-out? The Koran also says its wrong. When people point at either the Bible or Koran for why something is wrong, they're pointing it out in a document, not their opinion.

It's not my opinion that I have the right to Due Process and legal counsel, I can point it out to you in a document.

Ah, but it is your opinion. Or it would be. I'm sure if you were wrongly accused you would speak differently. You'd say it was unfair that you were being persecusted/prosecuted for a crime you did not commit; that just because your guilt was assumable by some that it did not mean it must be factual as well. It's a measure of common sense.

And that the wrongness of homosexuality is mentioned in the two faiths' documented rhetoric is only more proof that both faiths have rules that have been dismissed by their followers over time to suit their lives and their lifestyles. Most muslims aren't fundamentalists and neither are most christians. There are any number of rules and divine regulations that are set forth in both faiths that are no longer entertained by followers of both. The point being, the people who follow the faith are the people who decide the validity of that faith and it's rules. To me this is the greatest example of the hypocrisy of religions. Rules change, they gain and lose favor depending on the times in which it is practiced. So, I think the major conclusion that can be drawn from this line of thought is that there are a lot of people who don't like homosexuality, and it didn't just start. There has been an irrational and knee-jerk reaction to it for thousands of years, and this is refected by the man-made faiths of this very human world.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Not all of them support communism. Many don't like communism, their govt just happens to be commies.

To be sure. I have no doubt that there is room for a dissenting opinion amongst 1 billion people when it comes to their government. Just as there is room for disagreement and dissent amongst 1 billion christians. that's why you have so many different versions of the faith; each version claiming with certainty the validity of their interpretation.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No, I have never used legal drugs for anything other than their intended purpose.

Avoid ambien. I was prescribed ambien for sleep trouble and ended up hiding from David the Gnome. The next morning I realized it was the pile of wood for the fire place, not a mythical childs character. But that doesn't mean I didn't experience the effects of ambien.

That being said, smoke a joint and have a drink. One thing is for sure though; you need to get laid.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
For the woman I believe that she believes, the truth as to her is correct but that doesn't make it fact. You want to use it to prove that being gay is a choice with that video and I told you and showed you were incorrect.

As for the drugs you have never stated that it was "illegal" drugs, just drugs as you so like to nit-pick with words so often. As for being "illegal" that is a different matter all together, many "illegal" drugs are prescribed by doctors each and every day, if you ever had pain medication then you have had “illegal” drugs.
If you do not remember the things that you have called me and others in the past that is your problem and doesn’t make it any less true. I have told you directly at the time and if you can’t remember it I’m not wasting my time, I could post them but what do you care.

The difference is that you are only here to try and convert people to your faith or two shatter other beliefs, you have no other purpose in talking about religion. Not every Christian tries to force their beliefs but you do it all the time, hell look at the title of this thread alone. I keep bringing up the Golden Compass because with the simple jest that Shaky said you told him that you will never speak with him again and when I do it you keep one keeping on, so what make him so special that you would forsake him to suffer in Hell and not try and save him? (Since this is your only reason for posting)

Being gay is a matter of the will until you can provide evidence otherwise.

Ah...but I stated that I have used over-the-counter drugs not illegal drugs prescribed by a physician (there is a great difference).

Called you? The only thing that I have ever called you is Da Pittman. I have never (and I go on record), ever called you a f'n retard, moron, or lying bastard (that was all you). I have never used profanity towards you or name-calling (again, that was all you, God is my witness).

How can I shatter someone's beliefs? Wow, you give me way too much credit.

Why do you keep making it sound like I have the power to save someone else? You make it sound as though other people's eternal destiny somehow (I don't know how) rests solely with me. I cannot save you from your sins what makes you think that I can save anyone else? I am not Jesus Christ, I am His servant. I will forward all "...so what make him so special that you would forsake him to suffer in Hell and not try and save him? (Since this is your only reason for posting)" comments to Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do you keep making it sound like I have the power to save someone else?

Because many times you have said that was your motivation for preaching at others who don't desire or need your input in an effort to save them from themselves. If you don't have the power to impart true wisdom and knowledge, then you can stop responding to reasonable and directed posts with "I'll pray for you" in the hopes that they'll see the light you so arrogantly presume to spread and actually answer their questions. As it is though, you have no answer for them, because you don't have them yourself.

I don't think anyone here is hungry for your truth. No one here is suffering from some ailment that requires your imput. You and your assumption of Jesus' method can get the **** out.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Being gay is a matter of the will until you can provide evidence otherwise.

Ah...but I stated that I have used over-the-counter drugs not illegal drugs prescribed by a physician (there is a great difference).

Called you? The only thing that I have ever called you is Da Pittman. I have never (and I go on record), ever called you a f'n retard, moron, or lying bastard (that was all you). I have never used profanity towards you or name-calling (again, that was all you, God is my witness).

How can I shatter someone's beliefs? Wow, you give me way too much credit.

Why do you keep making it sound like I have the power to save someone else? You make it sound as though other people's eternal destiny somehow (I don't know how) rests solely with me. I cannot save you from your sins what makes you think that I can save anyone else? I am not Jesus Christ, I am His servant. I will forward all "...so what make him so special that you would forsake him to suffer in Hell and not try and save him? (Since this is your only reason for posting)" comments to Jesus Christ.

Why won't you answer the question about Shaky, why is he not worth your effort?

Until you prove other wise being gay is not a choice.

No you did not state "over the counter drugs"

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Nope, I am not on LSD. I have never used drugs--not even once.

But we are not talking about all of the other people, only one woman is under discussion. I firmly believe that I have demonstrated that her conversion came about as a direct result of Jesus Christ. Hey, since Jesus delivered her from a lifestyle of homosexuality, drugs, and porn (as she powerfully testifies), He will do the same for anyone else.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
There you go playing the word games again, you really are pathetic. Do you have a memory issue? Did you write down the word “F’n”, no you did not but did you call me a liar and that would be yes.

Why won't you answer the question about Shaky, why is he not worth your effort?

Until you prove other wise being gay is not a choice.

No you did not state "over the counter drugs" Please show me where you said “over the counter drugs since you like to play the word game.

Da Pittman, I did not call you a liar. This really is spinning out of control. There are things that I do and do not do. One is call you a liar. I cannot make you divest yourself of your cynicism and denial concerning this issue. Perhaps you need a reason to be angry towards me or offended (who knows). But saying, "I don't believe you." and "you are a liar," are two totally different universes. I don't believe a lot of things or people, that does not necessarily mean that they are lying. Nevertheless, believe what you will.

What question about Shaky? I have already stated several times that I will respond to posts at my discretion.

Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Genesis 5:2
He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.

Genesis 4:1
Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the LORD.”

Based on those Scriptures it is clear that God created gender between humankind. God never intended for same gender to come together in romantic/sexual relationship. So, I submit to you Da Pittman that the evidence you seek concerning whether homosexuals are born that way or not can be found in the pages of the Bible. I believe that homosexuality is a work of the flesh just like murder, lying, and adultery. In other words, it is one of many traits of fallen, sinful humanity. Saying that someone is born a homosexual would be like claiming that someone is born a fornicator, murderer, or liar. We are all born sinners but not necessarily a specific type of sinner per se. Nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality ever blessed or decreed as the will of God. But God does bless male and female unions that are in His will.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
It just occurred to me that you are very cynical. Can you handle this observation? It just dawned on me: you do not believe the woman under discussion's testimony and you don't believe that I have never used drugs--not even once. I am referring to illegal drugs. I have taken over-the-counter drugs (who hasn't), but I have never (and I will never) use illegal drugs. Why is this so difficult for you to handle/believe? There are some people out there that have self-discipline, self-control, and do not cave in to peer pressure of the lust of the flesh (with regard to using illegal drugs).

Anyhoo, it feels great to be drug free since birth.

😄

Excuse me, what? Did you respond? to who?

Originally posted by Devil King
Rules change

Islam has never undergone a reformation. The Koran is considered final and unalterable.

So it depends what you mean by that.

Originally posted by Devil King
So, I think the major conclusion that can be drawn from this line of thought is that there are a lot of people who don't like homosexuality, and it didn't just start. There has been an irrational and knee-jerk reaction to it for thousands of years, and this is refected by the man-made faiths of this very human world.

Whether religion is man-made or from god, why were there negative reactions to it before religion? Why would there be, since what was considered to be an objective rule prohibiting it did not yet exist?

Do you have anything empirical you can point at in an attempt answer that assertion of yours?

----

Originally posted by Devil King
One thing is for sure though; you need to get laid.

Are you a virgin, JIA?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Islam has never undergone a reformation. The Koran is considered final and unalterable.

So it depends what you mean by that.

Whether religion is man-made or from god, why were there negative reactions to it before religion? Why would there be, since what was considered to be an objective rule prohibiting it did not yet exist?

Do you have anything empirical you can point at in an attempt answer that assertion of yours?

----

Are you a virgin, JIA?

No, I am not a virgin.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No, I am not a virgin.

Are you married, or have you committed fornication?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Islam has never undergone a reformation. The Koran is considered final and unalterable.

So it depends what you mean by that.

I asume you mean a period of enightenment. Perhaps is has not undergone a period of official enlightenment, but it's followerss have dones as much a number of times. Today we're told by mainstream media that their religious perspectie is entertained by fundamentalists and fanatics, but that religion in enjoyed by any number f people in this country as well as others who allow the freedom on religious expression. But don't ignore the fact that enlightenment true simply because those controlled by one segment are realizing truth.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Whether religion is man-made or from god, why were there negative reactions to it before religion? Why would there be, since what was considered to be an objective rule prohibiting it did not yet exist?

I would be greatful to your expression of a single rule against it that didn't involve some measure of religion. Even as farback as the pharaohs there is an official proclaimation against it. But, that doesn't exclude it's existence. Neither does it remove the reality that a man-made prejudice some how represent thousands of years of prejudice. In many early cases homosexuality was accepted and practiced while not being publically condoned.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Do you have anything empirical you can point at in an attempt to answer that assertion of yours?

First and foremost that Jesus never said anything regarding homosexuality. No condemnation, no reasonable interpretation.

The only thing I can honesty and irrefutably point to is the idea that religion and practice are rarely the same. However, we can point to texts written for Alexander that illustrate that his closest advisor and military commander since childhood was named a god after his death. Even others, chinese and Indian. Hephastion became a god when he died. Akenaten had several lovers, supposedly. This is a theme we see repeated throughout history. So, as I said, there is an inescapable public disdain for the lifestyle, but very little evidence, especially from christ himself, that the understanding, acceptance and practice of homosexuality is contrary to god's decrees. Especially when most of the hateful rhetoric comes from the old testament in the minds of bible-followers.

It's a bit of a ruse to assume that homosexuality is wrong because of religious doctrination as though it is unique to christianity or islam. Every known culture around the world says practically the same thing. Does this make them right, enlightened or informed? What I don't understand is a person like yourself who professes an understanding, experience and acceptance of it not being able to get past it.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No, I am not a virgin.

So you're married? You have children? A spouse?

Originally posted by Devil King

It's a bit of a ruse to assume that homosexuality is wrong because of religious doctrination as though it is unique to christianity or islam. Every known culture around the world says practically the same thing. Does this make them right, enlightened or informed?

Why is it a ruse? Sure, other cultures may not have cared for homosexuality, but none before the Abrahamic religions declared that it was officially and objectively wrong, or prohibited it. And then you say "Every known culture around the world says practically the same thing", which is not true. Greeks, Japanese and various American Indian tribes have held homosexuality in high regard and reverence. In fact, both the ancient Greeks and Feudal Japanese considered love between men the purest form of love. So its not true that the whole world hated gays, which you are pointing at in an attempt to show why religion is based on the biases of people.

Originally posted by Devil King
What I don't understand is a person like yourself who professes an understanding, experience and acceptance of it not being able to get past it.

I'm not sure what you're asking.

Originally posted by Devil King
So, you've changed your mind on the specifics 5 times? Did the minister say something with which you didn't agree? Did you leave because you disapproved of something?

People who leave a church because they disagree with something are actually very revealing. Rather than take the message for what it is and change their life to accomodate it, they simply abandon that aspect of the religion and take their business elsewhere. It really does illustrate how people use the bible and religion to justify their own prejudices. At the end of the day, the argument that homosexuality is wrong because the bible says so is a cop-out. It's wrong, in your opinion, because that is your opinion, not because you think that one regulation should be honoured above all others that have been abandoned over the centuries. It's just a convenient scapegoat for your own disdain.

I like how that figure is always used to validate their religious choice. Like 1 billion people some how proves that christianity is right. The only problem is that there are 6 billion people on the planet. And 1 billion of them are Chinese communists. Does that figure somehow validate their political beliefs?

No, I have been to that many different churches because my family moved around a lot.

I don't point out the vast number of Christians to validate the belief system. I point it out to show that people who think that all Christians are all the same and behave exactly the same way are misled and hold to stereotypes. It's like people who always want "a woman's perspective." It assumes one woman will think exactly like another one.

I don't know JIA well enough to defend him or bash him since I haven't interacted with him much, but while most faiths (including Christianity) encourage its believers to spread the word and try to convert others, there is a certain way to go about doing it, and it involves being respectful and knowledgeable of people's already established faiths.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Da Pittman, I did not call you a liar. This really is spinning out of control. There are things that I do and do not do. One is call you a liar. I cannot make you divest yourself of your cynicism and denial concerning this issue. Perhaps you need a reason to be angry towards me or offended (who knows). But saying, "I don't believe you." and "you are a liar," are two totally different universes. I don't believe a lot of things or people, that does not necessarily mean that they are lying. Nevertheless, believe what you will.

What question about Shaky? I have already stated several times that I will respond to posts at my discretion.

[B]Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Genesis 5:2
He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.

Genesis 4:1
Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the LORD.”

Based on those Scriptures it is clear that God created gender between humankind. God never intended for same gender to come together in romantic/sexual relationship. So, I submit to you Da Pittman that the evidence you seek concerning whether homosexuals are born that way or not can be found in the pages of the Bible. I believe that homosexuality is a work of the flesh just like murder, lying, and adultery. In other words, it is one of many traits of fallen, sinful humanity. Saying that someone is born a homosexual would be like claiming that someone is born a fornicator, murderer, or liar. We are all born sinners but not necessarily a specific type of sinner per se. Nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality ever blessed or decreed as the will of God. But God does bless male and female unions that are in His will. [/B]

I have asked you many times why you will not respond to Shaky after he talked about the movie. You said that you will no longer speak to him because he made the comment about the movie, so why is that?

Posted Jul 1st, 2008 10:49 PM

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Nope, I am not on LSD. I have never used drugs--not even once.

But we are not talking about all of the other people, only one woman is under discussion. I firmly believe that I have demonstrated that her conversion came about as a direct result of Jesus Christ. Hey, since Jesus delivered her from a lifestyle of homosexuality, drugs, and porn (as she powerfully testifies), He will do the same for anyone else.

Posted Jul 2nd, 2008 06:24 PM

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
It just occurred to me that you are very cynical. Can you handle this observation? It just dawned on me: you do not believe the woman under discussion's testimony and you don't believe that I have never used drugs--not even once. I am referring to illegal drugs. I have taken over-the-counter drugs (who hasn't), but I have never (and I will never) use illegal drugs. Why is this so difficult for you to handle/believe? There are some people out there that have self-discipline, self-control, and do not cave in to peer pressure of the lust of the flesh (with regard to using illegal drugs).

Anyhoo, it feels great to be drug free since birth.

😄

Are you really that dumb, this post is way after the fact long after I told you that you used drugs. Your first post that I responded to said nothing about “over the counter”, give me a break.

Your scripture doesn’t prove anything, what about hermaphrodites? What about people that have a male outside and a female inside? In your opinion what makes a woman a woman and a man a man, is it purely biological or mental?

Also where in your Bible does it say the word “wife” means female? Not that Eve was a female and that Adam called her his wife but where does it say that “wife” means female.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I never, ever, ever, ever, ever stated that [color=#FF0000]God hated homosexuals. Show me where I stated that God hated homosexuals and I will leave this site forever.[/COLOR]

Originally posted by Da Pittman
...
I have asked you many times why you will not respond to Shaky after he talked about the movie. You said that you will no longer speak to him because he made the comment about the movie, so why is that?

Thanks, but I have not missed out. I can now say whatever I want and JIA will not dispute it. 😉 To me, that means he agrees. 😆