Can you handle the Truth?

Started by JesusIsAlive432 pages

Originally posted by leonheartmm
if it happens outside physical causality then its magic, whatever u wanna call it, its still magic.

there was no such part ive disected and destroyed each part of your reference. good luck next time

its impossible to beleive that all life came from two people if evolution CANT EXIST. its abundantly possible to beleive that all life came from inanimate matter if you accept evolution as viable. without the possibility of evolution BOTH are utterly impossible. now dont shy away and give an answer to THIS!

If God's power is magic because it happens outside of physical causality then so are quantum fluctuations.

You failed to show how the human race could not have come about in just six thousand years. I saw nowhere in your posts where you refuted this.

It might be impossible for you to believe but that does not mean that it is impossible for me and a host of other people to believe.

What is impossible to believe is that the universe uncaused came into existence through uncaused quantum fluctuations, produced the fundamental forces which governs the entire cosmos albeit uncaused, which led to uncaused expansion, and developed uncaused into a highly organized, finely tuned system capable of sustaining complex life within the most mathematically precise parameters uncaused, and gave birth uncaused to all of the other natural laws in the universe that we can base our lives on every day--all without a cause which slaps the law of cause and effect across the face with an open palm.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What is impossible to believe is that the universe uncaused came into existence through uncaused quantum fluctuations, produced the fundamental forces which governs the entire cosmos albeit uncaused, which led to uncaused expansion, and developed uncaused into a highly organized, finely tuned system capable of sustaining complex life within the most mathematically precise parameters uncaused, and gave birth uncaused to all of the other natural laws in the universe that we can base our lives on every day--all without a cause which slaps the law of cause and effect across the face with an open palm.


I think i've demonstrated how that is in fact very logical to accept.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
If God's power is magic because it happens outside of physical causality then so are quantum fluctuations.

You failed to show how the human race could not have come about in just six thousand years. I saw nowhere in your posts where you refuted this.

It might be impossible for you to believe but that does not mean that it is impossible for me and a host of other people to believe.

What is impossible to believe is that the universe uncaused came into existence through uncaused quantum fluctuations, produced the fundamental forces which governs the entire cosmos albeit uncaused, which led to uncaused expansion, and developed uncaused into a highly organized, finely tuned system capable of sustaining complex life within the most mathematically precise parameters uncaused, and gave birth uncaused to all of the other natural laws in the universe that we can base our lives on every day--all without a cause which slaps the law of cause and effect across the face with an open palm.

quantum fluctuations have convincing evidence for them an no 1 claims they are UNCAUSED!!!!! get that stupid thought out of your head, hence you fail.

you are a liar ive given two as yet unanswered by you, argument definitively proving that the human race could not have come about in a HUNDRED thousand years much less six, if we discount evolution, in both the scientific model and the adam and eve model. i thought christians arent supposed to lie. ofcourse, your a proven hypocrite

yes stupidity makes it easier to beleive bullshit. congratulations on you and your fellow relegious folk's collective brain retardation.

no scientist claims the universe was uncaused, they only claim that it came from natural causes which we had evidence for and not a hypocriticial uncaused CAUSE{contradiction} called god. quantum fluctuations are not uncaused, do not talk about things you know nothing about. it isnt highly organised or finely tuned, only one insignificant planet in the entire COSMOS that we have observed turned out this way purely by COINCIDENCE and given to that large number of enviornments in which random reactions took place, only an insignificant FEW in the majority of failures turned into living things and then even fewer went on to evolve. mathematical constants did not exist to create life, unliving things EVOLVED due to random firing of uncountable tries and those which would FIT IN to these narrow parameters ended up surviving and turning into perpetuating life. you slap human evolution of intelligence across the face with every thing you type here. and ofcourse, you god is the ultimate slap across the face of cause and effect so dont take the intellectual high ground here.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
quantum fluctuations have convincing evidence for them an no 1 claims they are UNCAUSED!!!!! get that stupid thought out of your head, hence you fail.

you are a liar ive given two as yet unanswered by you, argument definitively proving that the human race could not have come about in a HUNDRED thousand years much less six, if we discount evolution, in both the scientific model and the adam and eve model. i thought christians arent supposed to lie. ofcourse, your a proven hypocrite

yes stupidity makes it easier to beleive bullshit. congratulations on you and your fellow relegious folk's collective brain retardation.

no scientist claims the universe was uncaused, they only claim that it came from natural causes which we had evidence for and not a hypocriticial uncaused CAUSE{contradiction} called god. quantum fluctuations are not uncaused, do not talk about things you know nothing about. it isnt highly organised or finely tuned, only one insignificant planet in the entire COSMOS that we have observed turned out this way purely by COINCIDENCE and given to that large number of enviornments in which random reactions took place, only an insignificant FEW in the majority of failures turned into living things and then even fewer went on to evolve. mathematical constants did not exist to create life, unliving things EVOLVED due to random firing of uncountable tries and those which would FIT IN to these narrow parameters ended up surviving and turning into perpetuating life. you slap human evolution of intelligence across the face with every thing you type here. and ofcourse, you god is the ultimate slap across the face of cause and effect so dont take the intellectual high ground here.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
quantum fluctuations have convincing evidence for them an no 1 claims they are UNCAUSED!!!!! get that stupid thought out of your head, hence you fail.

I just gave you a quote that shows that they believe quantum fluctuations are uncaused.

Okay, what causes quantum/vacuum fluctuations?

you are a liar ive given two as yet unanswered by you, argument definitively proving that the human race could not have come about in a HUNDRED thousand years much less six, if we discount evolution, in both the scientific model and the adam and eve model. i thought christians arent supposed to lie. ofcourse, your a proven hypocrite

Again, see point 10:00 in the clip, Mr. Hovind explains how in six thousand years all the people on earth could have multiplied.

YouTube video

yes stupidity makes it easier to beleive bullshit. congratulations on you and your fellow relegious folk's collective brain retardation.

I still don’t get why you are so angry and insulting. Again, with all due respect were you abused as a child? Do you have some issues?

no scientist claims the universe was uncaused, they only claim that it came from natural causes which we had evidence for and not a hypocriticial uncaused CAUSE{contradiction} called god. quantum fluctuations are not uncaused, do not talk about things you know nothing about. it isnt highly organised or finely tuned, only one insignificant planet in the entire COSMOS that we have observed turned out this way purely by COINCIDENCE and given to that large number of enviornments in which random reactions took place, only an insignificant FEW in the majority of failures turned into living things and then even fewer went on to evolve. mathematical constants did not exist to create life, unliving things EVOLVED due to random firing of uncountable tries and those which would FIT IN to these narrow parameters ended up surviving and turning into perpetuating life. you slap human evolution of intelligence across the face with every thing you type here. and ofcourse, you god is the ultimate slap across the face of cause and effect so dont take the intellectual high ground here.

What evidence do scientists have that the universe spontaneously emerged into existence from a vacuum fluctuation?

What caused the vacuum fluctuation?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I still don’t get why you are so angry and insulting. Again, with all due respect were you abused as a child? Do you have some issues?

Nahh, he's probably just sick of your steadfast ignorance and your inability to accept those who don't think exactly the same way as you.

Originally posted by Keith Talent
Nahh, he's probably just sick of your steadfast ignorance and your inability to accept those who don't think exactly the same way as you.

He tries to get people mad at him. That way he can claim that he is above you, by asking why you get so mad.

However, I know how to make JIA mad; just talk about the Golden Compass. 😉

Originally posted by Keith Talent
Nahh, he's probably just sick of your steadfast ignorance and your inability to accept those who don't think exactly the same way as you.

I have not displayed any ignorance. I have consistently provided documentation for my (natural) claims. I cannot provide proof as such of the supernatural that would be accepted in this discussion.

Then we are at a stalemate?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
He tries to get people mad at him. That way he can claim that he is above you, by asking why you get so mad.

However, I know how to make JIA mad; just talk about the Golden Compass. 😉

The Philip Pullman novel? I loved that series. I should read them again.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have not displayed any ignorance. I have consistently provided documentation for my (natural) claims. I cannot provide proof as such of the supernatural that would be accepted in this discussion.

Then we are at a stalemate?

No, judging from an observer's point of view, you have simply lost the debate. All you did was state the same thing over and over again. You loose points for that.

Originally posted by Keith Talent
The Philip Pullman novel? I loved that series. I should read them again.

Just quote from them while talking to jia and you will end up like the rest of us, actively being ignored by jia. 😆

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have not displayed any ignorance. I have consistently provided documentation for my (natural) claims. I cannot provide proof as such of the supernatural that would be accepted in this discussion.

Then we are at a stalemate?

No, your so called 'evidence' comes from biased sources who can show no credible proof of education. Just like you. Go read an introductory biology textbook.

And I don't have much knowledge of physics, so I won't argue the second law. It's just a belief of mine that I shouldn't hold any opinions about things I don't understand. There's a concept you don't at all grasp.

There are so many intelligent, and caring people who happily believe in evolution and god. I suggest you go meet a catholic biology professor who believes in evolution (there are plenty of them) and have a long hard chat about faith and science.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I think i've demonstrated how that is in fact very logical to accept.

The universe came into existence through quantum fluctuations, produced the fundamental forces which governs the entire cosmos, led to expansion, developed into a highly organized, finely tuned system capable of sustaining complex life within the most mathematically precise parameters, and gave birth to all of the other natural laws in the universe that we can base our lives on every day?

How have you demonstrated that this is logical? This is not logical, plausible, or even possible.

Every known natural and scientific law is violated in this explanation for the origin of the universe.

The universe is so complex that scientists spend years studying it and still don't understand it. Yet, you believe that it just happened without an intelligent Designer?

What causes quantum fluctuations?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, judging from an observer's point of view, you have simply lost the debate. All you did was state the same thing over and over again. You loose points for that.

Pretty much. I have no idea of how this thread got so big.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Just quote from them while talking to jia and you will end up like the rest of us, actively being ignored by jia. 😆

Hahaha. As Pullman says, Harry Potter really did take the heat off that series. It would have been so much more controversial if it weren't for the enormous attention that Potter drew.

Originally posted by Keith Talent
No, your so called 'evidence' comes from biased sources who can show no credible proof of education. Just like you. Go read an introductory biology textbook.

And I don't have much knowledge of physics, so I won't argue the second law. It's just a belief of mine that I shouldn't hold any opinions about things I don't understand. There's a concept you don't at all grasp.

There are so many intelligent, and caring people who happily believe in evolution and god. I suggest you go meet a catholic biology professor who believes in evolution (there are plenty of them) and have a long hard chat about faith and science.

Bias is a fact of life. Nevertheless, my links are from a variety of Christian and atheistic sources.

No thankyou, any person who espouses macroevolution is in direct contradiction to biblical revelation. The two ideas are mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Bias is a fact of life. Nevertheless, my links are from a variety of Christian and atheistic sources.

No thankyou, any person who espouses macroevolution is in direct contradiction to biblical revelation. The two ideas are mutually exclusive.

You've been on this board for nearly three years and have made over 6000 posts. You are mocked by practically everyone on this board and keep coming back day by day saying the same things. I really don't understand why.

Why cant you just live with your beliefs and let others live with theirs?

What the f.uck is your problem, man? I don't understand how you got this way, but you seriously need to snap out of it.

Try and put yourself into other peoples shoes. You were brought up a Christian and your a firm believer, thats fine. But you need to understand that there is more to the world than one set of believes. Meet people from other religions, talk and learn their culture. Read history. Do something! Stop trying to change people into you.

Originally posted by jaden101
Actually it's not. It results in what's known as "inbreeding depression" whereby recessive genes come to the fore and result in species becoming unfit and more prone to disease and ultimately extinction.

Examples in humans are the Ulas family from Turkey and the Vadoma tribe in Zimbabwe.

A generic example is the increase in likelyhood of Down's syndrome among interbreeding genetic relatives....In a study done in Kuwait, some 50% of the occurences of trisomy 21 (3 copies of chromosome 21 instead of 2 causes down's syndrome) were attributed to interbreeding at a level of second cousin (parents are cousins) or closer.

So no...A starting point of 2 people is not possible because we would be extinct because of genetic disorders brought on by weak recessive genes becoming more and more prevalent and so the genotype expresses a negative phenotype and thus the human becomes unfit to survive.

Originally posted by jaden101
Actually it's not. It results in what's known as "inbreeding depression" whereby recessive genes come to the fore and result in species becoming unfit and more prone to disease and ultimately extinction.

Examples in humans are the Ulas family from Turkey and the Vadoma tribe in Zimbabwe.

It’s too late for that, you and the other six billion people on the earth are already here. Which means that we are not extinct. And since the Bible is true all people descended from two people: Adam and Eve.

A generic example is the increase in likelyhood of Down's syndrome among interbreeding genetic relatives....In a study done in Kuwait, some 50% of the occurences of trisomy 21 (3 copies of chromosome 21 instead of 2 causes down's syndrome) were attributed to interbreeding at a level of second cousin (parents are cousins) or closer.

Yeah, now after the fact, but that was not the case originally.

So no...A starting point of 2 people is not possible because we would be extinct because of genetic disorders brought on by weak recessive genes becoming more and more prevalent and so the genotype expresses a negative phenotype and thus the human becomes unfit to survive.

No we wouldn’t, read the below article.

Biological deformities

“Today, brothers and sisters (and half-brothers and half-sisters, etc.) are not permitted by law to marry because their children have an unacceptably high risk of being deformed. The more closely the parents are related, the more likely it is that any offspring will be deformed.

There is a very sound genetic reason for such laws that is easy to understand. Every person has two sets of genes, there being some 130,000 pairs that specify how a person is put together and functions. Each person inherits one gene of each pair from each parent. Unfortunately, genes today contain many mistakes (because of sin and the Curse), and these mistakes show up in a variety of ways. For instance, some people let their hair grow over their ears to hide the fact that one ear is lower than the other—or perhaps someone's nose is not quite in the middle of his or her face, or someone's jaw is a little out of shape—and so on. Let's face it, the main reason we call each other normal is because of our common agreement to do so!

The more distantly related parents are, the more likely it is that they will have different mistakes in their genes. Children, inheriting one set of genes from each parent, are likely to end up with pairs of genes containing a maximum of one bad gene in each pair. The good gene tends to override the bad so that a deformity (a serious one, anyway) does not occur. Instead of having totally deformed ears, for instance, a person may only have crooked ones! (Overall, though, the human race is slowly degenerating as mistakes accumulate, generation after generation.)

However, the more closely related two people are, the more likely it is that they will have similar mistakes in their genes, since these have been inherited from the same parents. Therefore, a brother and a sister are more likely to have similar mistakes in their genes. A child of a union between such siblings could inherit the same bad gene on the same gene pair from both, resulting in two bad copies of the gene and serious defects.

Adam and Eve did not have accumulated genetic mistakes. When the first two people were created, they were physically perfect. Everything God made was “very good” (Genesis 1:31), so their genes were perfect—no mistakes! But, when sin entered the world (because of Adam—Genesis 3:6, Romans 5:12), God cursed the world so that the perfect creation then began to degenerate, that is, suffer death and decay (Romans 8:22). Over thousands of years, this degeneration has produced all sorts of genetic mistakes in living things.

Cain was in the first generation of children ever born. He (as well as his brothers and sisters) would have have received virtually no imperfect genes from Adam or Eve, since the effects of sin and the Curse would have been minimal to start with (it takes time for these copying errors to accumulate). In that situation, brother and sister could have married with God's approval, without any potential to produce deformed offspring.

By the time of Moses (a few thousand years later), degenerative mistakes would have built up in the human race to such an extent that it was necessary for God to forbid brother-sister (and close relative) marriage (Leviticus 18-20).[12] (Also, there were plenty of people on the earth by then, and there was no reason for close relations to marry.)”

http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c004.html

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The two ideas are mutually exclusive.

Anyone who believes in evolution cannot be a Christian?

Originally posted by Keith Talent
You've been on this board for nearly three years and have made over 6000 posts. You are mocked by practically everyone on this board and keep coming back day by day saying the same things. I really don't understand why.

Why cant you just live with your beliefs and let others live with theirs?

What the f.uck is your problem, man? I don't understand how you got this way, but you seriously need to snap out of it.

Try and put yourself into other peoples shoes. You were brought up a Christian and your a firm believer, thats fine. But you need to understand that there is more to the world than one set of believes. Meet people from other religions, talk and learn their culture. Read history. Do something! Stop trying to change people into you.

Because I love people and don't want them to go to Hell.

Because I have been commanded to go into all the world and preach the gospel.

I don't have a problem. I don't curse or insult people yet I am consistently accused of having a problem.

I am very educated and enlightened that does not mean that I know everything. But what I do know is that Jesus Christ is the only Way to the Father (God in Heaven). There is no other way to God. People need to know this so that they don't waste their lives seeking God in false religions or atheism.

This is the truth can you handle it?

Originally posted by Keith Talent
Anyone who believes in evolution cannot be a Christian?

I don't know that it is that black or white with reference to belief in macroevolution whether a person is saved or not. I know that if a person does not believe that Jesus died for his/her sins then he/she cannot be saved.

The things that a person belives or does not believe about Jesus the Christ determines whether a person is born again (saved, a Christian, etc.) or not.

You neither understand religion or science. It's quite sad. You don't love people, mate. Don't kid yourself. You're spend your life on earth being a moron, hoping for a happier after life. You want to love people? Get off the internet and go volunteer at a hospital. Actually go about making a difference in the world instead of insulting peoples beliefs. None of what you say on this forum has changed anyone, nor will it.