Originally posted by juggerman
Yes i do. But these guys were the ones who claimed to have witnessed these miracles. If they were indeed lying i believe at least one of them would have come forward to save his own life.
Do you understand it is possible to have a false belief that is not a deliberate attempt to decieve? For example: A customer earlier today sincerely held an inaccurate belief about what her password was.
Originally posted by juggerman
I personally have no reason to. I've never seen or experienced magic to my knowledge and have not heard or seen anything that gives me the idea that it might be real. Granted i'm not saying it does not or cannot exist, just that i don't believe it.
Have you personally experiened divine magic?
Originally posted by Lestov16
Just because the Bible had real people in them doesn't mean everything they did in the bible was real. There's a massive difference
And just because you don't like what is said in the Bible doesn't make it any less real. Case and point: Jesus' disciples claim to have witnessed him perform miracles and rise from the dead. They were being hunted and killed for preaching this. All were eventually killed still claiming it to be the truth. Why didn't any one of them admit it was a lie to save their life? Hell during Jesus' life they all were shunned, threatened, chased, spat on and other such non sense yet continued following. Why? Wouldn't logic dictate at least one jump up and say "this is for the birds, i'm going home!"?
And these weren't slow guys either. Look at their writings and you'll see that they can, and do, think for themselves. What keep them living such a hard life? And above all that, what keep them from denouncing Jesus after he was no longer around to keep them in check?
It's hilarious that your only evidence that the events in the bible happened is the bible itself. NOTHING BESIDES THE BIBLE VERIFIES THE BIBLE. It's like me saying toasters can fly, and people ask me for proof and I just say "I don't have any physical proof, but have faith! Embrace ignorance! The Ingsoc Way!"
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Do you understand it is possible to have a false belief that is not a deliberate attempt to decieve? For example: A customer earlier today sincerely held an inaccurate belief about what her password was.Have you personally experiened divine magic?
Again that's not the same. They claimed they saw things. They all did. Either they were all lying or they were all decieved the exact same way, along with thousands others if this were the case. Like how would they all think Jesus healed with a touch or raised the dead?
I don't call it magic, but not to my knowledge. I've never experienced being shot either tho. That make it not real?
Originally posted by Lestov16
It's hilarious that your only evidence that the events in the bible happened is the bible itself. [b]NOTHING BESIDES THE BIBLE VERIFIES THE BIBLE. It's like me saying toasters can fly, and people ask me for proof and I just say "I don't have any physical proof, but have faith! Embrace ignorance! The Ingsoc Way!" [/B]
Actually there are several sources verifying events decribed in the Bible. If of course you were actually willing to look
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Are Judas and Peter not in your version of the Bible?
Missed this one. Judas betrayed Jesus by turning him in but iirc he never claimed Jesus was not whom he said he was. Peter denied being a follower but again didn't deny who Jesus himself was. Now again faced with death he did not deny anything.
You have sources verifying God's "Divine Power" outside of the bible? Can you post it?
If not, how is it relevant? As I said, just because there were real people in the Bible doesn't mean the things they did in it were real. Harun Al-Rashid was a real person, and a character in Arabian Nights. That doesn't mean the real life Al-Rashid did the things of his fictional counterpart.
Originally posted by juggerman
Again that's not the same. They claimed they saw things. They all did. Either they were all lying or they were all decieved the exact same way, along with thousands others if this were the case. Like how would they all think Jesus healed with a touch or raised the dead?
People are deceived or mistaken all the time. The 2009 Morristown UFO is a perfect example, we know exactly what happened. Five balloons had red flares tied to them and were released over the town. Witnesses sincerely believed they had seen the lights act with intelligence as if communicating with each other and even declared it impossible that the lights could have come from flares.
None of these people were stupid. None of these people were lying. They are simply mistaken. It is very easy to be wrong. In my experience it is actually much harder for people to admit that they were wrong than to cling to a false belief.
People can die for mistaken beliefs as well, they hold them just as strongly as true beliefs. People have died, you should note, in the name of dozens of religion but I doubt you believe they are all true simply on account of the strength of the adherent's faith.
Originally posted by Robtard
Have people existed and do exist that believe they're wizards, witches, shamans etc.? Yes. Do these people have actual magical abilities? No.Voodoo is a religion. Santeria is a religion. Hoodoo is some kind of spiritual practice, not keen on this one. Do the practitioners of any of these have actual magical powers? No.
Sorry, I don't believe in ghost, demons, daemons, devils or spirits. Ouja boards are just boards, essentially a game.
I don't believe palm readers, psychics, crystals, horoscopes, card readings etc have any actual super natural powers.
Numerology was proven false. Take any book thick enough and search for preset Bibilical code; you will find what you're looking for. Someone did it with Moby Dick.
😂 Yoga? Really? It's just an exercise. Calm down.
Engaging in any of these probably won't do anything, unless you're retarded and take bad advice from a horoscope, palm reader and such.
Yoga though, that can be very good for both your body and mind, relieves stress and defines muscles. Don't discourage people from exercising, you asshat.
Former Kundalini Yoga Teacher Turns to Christianity - Part 1/8
Mike Shreve was a follower of Yogi Bhajan and a teacher of Kundalini Yoga at four universities in the Tampa, Florida area (USA). He spent his days in solitude, seeking the truth through various meditation, yoga and new age practices. He had about 400 students and was also running a yoga ashram. Ever-increasing mystical experiences convinced him that he was evolving in a genuine experience of true spirituality and a revelation of Ultimate Reality. His all-consuming passion was to attain God-consciousness. Then an encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ changed everything--dramatically--and the thirst of his soul was quenched. If you are searching for God and seeking truth, you need to listen to this presentation. God's love is evident in the words that are spoken.
YouTube video
Originally posted by Robtard
Have people existed and do exist that believe they're wizards, witches, shamans etc.? Yes. Do these people have actual magical abilities? No.Voodoo is a religion. Santeria is a religion. Hoodoo is some kind of spiritual practice, not keen on this one. Do the practitioners of any of these have actual magical powers? No.
Sorry, I don't believe in ghost, demons, daemons, devils or spirits. Ouja boards are just boards, essentially a game.
I don't believe palm readers, psychics, crystals, horoscopes, card readings etc have any actual super natural powers.
Numerology was proven false. Take any book thick enough and search for preset Bibilical code; you will find what you're looking for. Someone did it with Moby Dick.
😂 Yoga? Really? It's just an exercise. Calm down.
Bishop Samuel Vagalas Kanco ~ A Former African Witch Doctor
This is a very old interview: It's probably 4 years old. It was found on Govinda Tidball's website. Pat Holliday is the author of a book based upon the testimony of Bishop Samuel Vagalas Kanco. Zeph Daniel interviewed Bishop Kanco way back then.
"The Witch Doctor and The Man City Under The Sea" ~ by Pat Holliday, Ph.D.
Testimony of A Former Witch Doctor From Nigeria-Emmanuel Amos
Originally posted by Robtard
Have people existed and do exist that believe they're wizards, witches, shamans etc.? Yes. Do these people have actual magical abilities? No.Voodoo is a religion. Santeria is a religion. Hoodoo is some kind of spiritual practice, not keen on this one. Do the practitioners of any of these have actual magical powers? No.
Sorry, I don't believe in ghost, demons, daemons, devils or spirits. Ouja boards are just boards, essentially a game.
I don't believe palm readers, psychics, crystals, horoscopes, card readings etc have any actual super natural powers.
Numerology was proven false. Take any book thick enough and search for preset Bibilical code; you will find what you're looking for. Someone did it with Moby Dick.
😂 Yoga? Really? It's just an exercise. Calm down.
Engaging in any of these probably won't do anything, unless you're retarded and take bad advice from a horoscope, palm reader and such.
Yoga though, that can be very good for both your body and mind, relieves stress and defines muscles. Don't discourage people from exercising, you asshat.
Former Kundalini Yoga Teacher Turns to Christianity - Part 1/8
Mike Shreve was a follower of Yogi Bhajan and a teacher of Kundalini Yoga at four universities in the Tampa, Florida area (USA). He spent his days in solitude, seeking the truth through various meditation, yoga and new age practices. He had about 400 students and was also running a yoga ashram. Ever-increasing mystical experiences convinced him that he was evolving in a genuine experience of true spirituality and a revelation of Ultimate Reality. His all-consuming passion was to attain God-consciousness. Then an encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ changed everything--dramatically--and the thirst of his soul was quenched. If you are searching for God and seeking truth, you need to listen to this presentation. God's love is evident in the words that are spoken.
YouTube video
Bishop Samuel Vagalas Kanco ~ A Former African Witch Doctor
This is a very old interview: It's probably 4 years old. It was found on Govinda Tidball's website. Pat Holliday is the author of a book based upon the testimony of Bishop Samuel Vagalas Kanco. Zeph Daniel interviewed Bishop Kanco way back then.
"The Witch Doctor and The Man City Under The Sea" ~ by Pat Holliday, Ph.D.
Testimony of A Former Witch Doctor From Nigeria-Emmanuel Amos
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=453177
Warlocks, wizards, mediums, shamans, and witches are REAL. Their power comes form satan and his angels (demons).
Voodoo, santeria, and hoodoo is REAL.
The spirit realm is REAL. Demons are REAL. Ouja boards are REAL, AVOID THEM. DO NOT contact demons through seances or any occult activity like tarot card readings, calling psychics, palm readings, charms, crystals, horoscopes, yoga, chanting yogic mantras, numerology, and the like.
Engaging in any of the above practices gives the devil and his demons PLACE (i.e. legal right in the eyes of God) to steal, kill, destroy, and oppress YOU and YOUR FAMILY.
The Truth (i.e. Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Son of the Living God, the Word made flesh) is easy to handle. Come to Jesus all you who labor and are heavy laden, and He will give you rest.
Take His yoke upon you and learn from Him, for He is gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
In Jesus Christ you can have, enjoy, and experience eternal love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, and eternal life.
Former Kundalini Yoga Teacher Turns to Christianity - Part 1/8
Mike Shreve was a follower of Yogi Bhajan and a teacher of Kundalini Yoga at four universities in the Tampa, Florida area (USA). He spent his days in solitude, seeking the truth through various meditation, yoga and new age practices. He had about 400 students and was also running a yoga ashram. Ever-increasing mystical experiences convinced him that he was evolving in a genuine experience of true spirituality and a revelation of Ultimate Reality. His all-consuming passion was to attain God-consciousness. Then an encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ changed everything--dramatically--and the thirst of his soul was quenched. If you are searching for God and seeking truth, you need to listen to this presentation. God's love is evident in the words that are spoken.
YouTube video
Bishop Samuel Vagalas Kanco ~ A Former African Witch Doctor
This is a very old interview: It's probably 4 years old. It was found on Govinda Tidball's website. Pat Holliday is the author of a book based upon the testimony of Bishop Samuel Vagalas Kanco. Zeph Daniel interviewed Bishop Kanco way back then.
"The Witch Doctor and The Man City Under The Sea" ~ by Pat Holliday, Ph.D.
YouTube video
Testimony of A Former Witch Doctor From Nigeria-Emmanuel Amos
YouTube video
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=453177
Warlocks, wizards, mediums, shamans, and witches are REAL. Their power comes form satan and his angels (demons).
Voodoo, santeria, and hoodoo is REAL.
The spirit realm is REAL. Demons are REAL. Ouja boards are REAL, AVOID THEM. DO NOT contact demons through seances or any occult activity like tarot card readings, calling psychics, palm readings, charms, crystals, horoscopes, yoga, chanting yogic mantras, numerology, and the like.
Engaging in any of the above practices gives the devil and his demons PLACE (i.e. legal right in the eyes of God) to steal, kill, destroy, and oppress YOU and YOUR FAMILY.
YouTube video
YouTube video
YouTube video
The Truth (i.e. Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Son of the Living God, the Word made flesh) is easy to handle. Come to Jesus all you who labor and are heavy laden, and He will give you rest.
Take His yoke upon you and learn from Him, for He is gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
In Jesus Christ you can have, enjoy, and experience eternal love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, and eternal life.
http://www.heavenvisit.com/Retha_McPherson.php
YouTube video
YouTube video
YouTube video
YouTube video
YouTube video
YouTube video "😉;
Originally posted by Lestov16
You have sources verifying God's "Divine Power" outside of the bible? Can you post it?If not, how is it relevant? As I said, just because there were real people in the Bible doesn't mean the things they did in it were real. Harun Al-Rashid was a real person, and a character in Arabian Nights. That doesn't mean the real life Al-Rashid did the things of his fictional counterpart.
I never said i did.
It was asked if i believe in it. So i assume you have some proof it didn't happen?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
People are deceived or mistaken all the time. The 2009 Morristown UFO is a perfect example, we know exactly what happened. Five balloons had red flares tied to them and were released over the town. Witnesses sincerely believed they had seen the lights act with intelligence as if communicating with each other and even declared it impossible that the lights could have come from flares.None of these people were stupid. None of these people were lying. They are simply mistaken. It is very easy to be wrong. In my experience it is actually much harder for people to admit that they were wrong than to cling to a false belief.
People can die for mistaken beliefs as well, they hold them just as strongly as true beliefs. People have died, you should note, in the name of dozens of religion but I doubt you believe they are all true simply on account of the strength of the adherent's faith.
That doesn't really explain how you could be mistaken that a man could heal with a touch. Or raise a dead man from his grave that has been dead for days. I'm not seeing how that's the same at all honestly. If there's a man that's dead/dying abd this is confirmed my multiple sources and then suddenly he is alive/healed by a mere touch or word.
I agree but this wasn't one time. Or even a handful of times. This was things happening continually over years. It would be very hard to keep that up when most of the people around you are actively looking to poke holes in your story. There were thousands that witnessed his spur of the moment miracles. I find it hard to believe that no one noticed he was tricking them.
True but again these people aren't claiming to have seen these things firsthand. They just believe strongly that they happened. In this case there were multiple people willing to die for things they knew/felt was what they actually saw. Big difference imo