Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS
Why did you have to apologize, wouldn't he know that you were trying to convert this "heathen"? Besides he already saw you post it before you posted it, he already knew that you would right that before you were born. 😉
I didn't have to apologize, I did it out of love for my Heavenly Father.
Oh, I did it of my own free will (just like Adam and Eve had)
😉
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveBut by doing so you questioned that God couldn't see or know what you were doing so you had to write it in text and say it out loud. If you truly believed that he sees you at all times you wouldn't need to, so the only reason that you would is to reassure yourself.
I didn't have to apologize, I did it out of love for my Heavenly Father.Oh, I did it of my own free will (just like Adam and Eve had)
😉
Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS
But by doing so you questioned that God couldn't see or know what you were doing so you had to write it in text and say it out loud. If you truly believed that he sees you at all times you wouldn't need to, so the only reason that you would is to reassure yourself.
So, god knows the future, but ignores it. 😕 😆
Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS
But by doing so you questioned that God couldn't see or know what you were doing so you had to write it in text and say it out loud. If you truly believed that he sees you at all times you wouldn't need to, so the only reason that you would is to reassure yourself.
Even though my wife know I love her, I need to say it every once in a while, and she loves it.
Even though God knows our deepest thoughts, feelings, problems, for love we feel the urge of telling him.
Even though you feel so selfassured not needing God at all, you participate in a Religion Forum.... Why is that? Do you want to reassure yourself?
Originally posted by darkfan76Well first off your wife is not all-knowing, major difference there. As for God he should based on the description know more about how you feel and what you know more than you do. You wouldn’t tell your math professor that 2 + 2 = 4 because they already know for an absolute fact that it is.
Even though my wife know I love her, I need to say it every once in a while, and she loves it.Even though God knows our deepest thoughts, feelings, problems, for love we feel the urge of telling him.
Even though you feel so selfassured not needing God at all, you participate in a Religion Forum.... Why is that? Do you want to reassure yourself?
As for why I’m on these forums it is not because I need to reassure my self, I have already said this once before but I like to debate and the reason is one it helps me train my thoughts and lets me learn new things that I may have overlooked or in some cases reaffirm what I already know because I’m not all-knowing. I enjoy an intellectual debate and find it stimulating, I’m not here to convert anyone and if it does happen then great but just as I like to be question about what I think I like to do the same with other people and get them to think why the think and believe what they do. If it reaffirms their religious believe the more power too them, as long as they are excepting that they maybe wrong as I do.
Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS
Well first off your wife is not all-knowing, major difference there. As for God he should based on the description know more about how you feel and what you know more than you do. You wouldn’t tell your math professor that 2 + 2 = 4 because they already know for an absolute fact that it is.As for why I’m on these forums it is not because I need to reassure my self, I have already said this once before but I like to debate and the reason is one it helps me train my thoughts and lets me learn new things that I may have overlooked or in some cases reaffirm what I already know because I’m not all-knowing. I enjoy an intellectual debate and find it stimulating, I’m not here to convert anyone and if it does happen then great but just as I like to be question about what I think I like to do the same with other people and get them to think why the think and believe what they do. If it reaffirms their religious believe the more power too them, as long as they are excepting that they maybe wrong as I do.
Ja,ja. I can assure that even my wife is not all-knowing, she knows I love her, without telling her. Anyway I like to say it, and she wants to hear it.
OK likewise. As you want to "train your thoughts", to reaffirm what you already know, we need to "practice our love".
You are free to reaffirm what you already know as you wish.
Christians are free to show their love to God and act for love according to their faith. Don't you agree? Don't be intolerant as much as you dislike religious beliefs, especially in a Religion Forum.
Originally posted by darkfan76Please do not assume that I’m intolerant of religion and I do not dislike religious belief I just don’t believe in them.
Ja,ja. I can assure that even my wife is not all-knowing, she knows I love her, without telling her. Anyway I like to say it, and she wants to hear it.OK likewise. As you want to "train your thoughts", to reaffirm what you already know, we need to "practice our love".
You are free to reaffirm what you already know as you wish.
Christians are free to show their love to God and act for love according to their faith. Don't you agree? Don't be intolerant as much as you dislike religious beliefs, especially in a Religion Forum.
The point that I’m saying is that when you wish to show your love for God it is for the person and not the benefit of God because he is already supposed to know even more than you. Also you took many comments in my post out of text to try and prove that I’m only hear to reassure my own beliefs and missed all the others saying that I also like to learn new thoughts and other ideas.
Also what is with the Ja,ja thing?
Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS
Please do not assume that I’m intolerant of religion and I do not dislike religious belief I just don’t believe in them.The point that I’m saying is that when you wish to show your love for God it is for the person and not the benefit of God because he is already supposed to know even more than you. Also you took many comments in my post out of text to try and prove that I’m only hear to reassure my own beliefs and missed all the others saying that I also like to learn new thoughts and other ideas.
Also what is with the Ja,ja thing?
I perfectly understand your logic: "Why do you need to tell anything to God, if he's supposed to know everything?"
I just gave you an example that it is a love expression that we feel the urge to do, even if it is not necessary. We don't do it because we think God need us to say something to know, we do it because we like to do it.
sorry about the ja,ja, it should be ha, ha (laughter),sometimes I mixed languages, since my first language is Spanish, I also speak French and participate in different forums in the three languages.
Clarifying , I don't laugh because of you or your post, but about the situation. You see, we, I mean Christians many times are not good enough explaining things ( we just want to impose them to other people), and many misunderstandings and misinterpretations from non-believers arise then, and it is our fault, not yours.
Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS
But by doing so you questioned that God couldn't see or know what you were doing so you had to write it in text and say it out loud. If you truly believed that he sees you at all times you wouldn't need to, so the only reason that you would is to reassure yourself.
I assume your wife loves you alot, and I imagine you know that she does. I assume you love her alot, and I imagine she knows it.
However, even though you both know that you love each other more than anything else, I bet you both like to hear the person say it.
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_GavThis was already brought up, both of us are not all knowing which makes all the difference.
I assume your wife loves you alot, and I imagine you know that she does. I assume you love her alot, and I imagine she knows it.However, even though you both know that you love each other more than anything else, I bet you both like to hear the person say it.
lol. psuedo logic RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!
if i hit a ball on a pool table at a ball triangle and one of the many balls after a lot of complicated bouncing bounced up and hit a man in the eye, i would not be responsible for it truly. as i just set the system in motion without meaning or KNOWING the result of the complicated interactions of the many balls. this is the argument that christians are presenting here. that he started things but is not responsible for how they go as he does not MAKE them go, he just created them to GO. however this argument collapses in on itself as your implying that god DID not know the interaction of the balls. if i, before hitting the balls, PLACED{creation} them in a manner which i KNEW 10/10 without place for error. that after 10 seconds and about 40 haphazard collisions, a ball will be hit with enough force to shoot it up and hit that exact person. THEN even if i were to START the sytem going without interrupting it in the middle, i WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE 100% FOR THE BALL HITTING THE OTHER PERSON. so ther very fact that god knew what his creation was going to do without fail and CREATED them knowing their full actions and choices{which they had none as omniscience nulls any true choice. its only that humans BELIEVE they have a choice but really have non in omniscience} then god is responsible for their every action from start till finish and man CHOOSES to do nothing. this is an inescapeable logical dillemma if you make god omniscient and the ceator of the world at the same time.
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I assume your wife loves you alot, and I imagine you know that she does. I assume you love her alot, and I imagine she knows it.However, even though you both know that you love each other more than anything else, I bet you both like to hear the person say it.
we do not know {i.e. have 100% faith even if we think we do, we do not} without fail that our partner loves us. we are merely VERY SURE{in the fortunate cases} that they do. furthermore, saying it out again reinforces our belief and makes us feal better. furthermore, loving isnt a passive fact. it is both a passive fact AND an active real time ACT. if you do not claim it often, seeing as your human, the passive concept would become stale in your mind and heart.
now this can not apply to god. first off your implying , that like humans, god LIKES to hear it said and it gives him pleasure. if that is true than that means that god is LACKING and does not posess the satisfaction/pleasure attained from hearing his greatness being proclaimed every day. a perfect god does not need or DESIRE anything. therefore this statement is discrepent in itself. furthermore, unlike humans, god is omniscient and has PERFECT knowledge of his perfection/greatness and unlike humans, hearing it again can not REINFORCE that knowledge. this statement too is thus discrepent in itself.
ill also say this, if we had 100% knowledge of the other's love, we would NEVER suspect betrayel etc. nor claim that the other isnt investing enough time in the relationship or have fights which accuse the other, or be hesitant to try sumthing we think the other might not agree with.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But God did not do that to Adam and Eve. They had a free will and had they used it wisely they would have lived their lives in love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, gentleness, goodness, and self-control. They would have continued to be blessed throughout eternity. Your illustration is a poor one at best (sorry if that offends you) because God did not tell Adam or Eve,[B]"Eat from the Tree or die."
God did not put Adam or Eve under any type of pressure or duress in relation to His will. This would have been a better example of God's will in contrast to your example.
"Son or daughter, your mother and I are going out to dinner. You two may freely eat from any fruit in the fruit bowl (and there are many different kinds). But of the fruit on top of the refrigerator you may not eat of it, for in the day you two eat of it you shall surely get your butts whipped."
Question: did the son and daughter have a choice in my illustration? Yes? Yes. So then they have a free will right? Right. There wasn't any pressure or constraint placed on them to disobey correct? Correct. Even if they were tempted by a house guest, they still have the power to say no to drugs (I mean to eating the forbidden fruit). [/B]
dont try to drown the opposition in a meaningless jumble of words which have already been addressed. the answer is simple. if god is omniscient then the future is predestined. {omniscience can not exist without predestination} if the future is predestined then NO1 has any choice and only one future exists which WILL happen. in god''s creation tale, he introduced a little twist to this. he gave people PSUEDO free will as i like to call it. its the ability for people to THINK that they have free will. adam and eve THOUGHT they had free will due to the concionce given by god. but that was not a fact. you and i both know that as god knew that eve would intice adam to eat the fruit, that was the way IT WOULD HAPPEN. eve THOUGHT she made a choice as did adam. but god's knowledge of event to transpire existed BEFORE they made the choice and hence it was onlytheir belief and not their actual FREE will to choose that made events transpire the way they did.
Originally posted by darkfan76
The fact that God knows what is going to happen, what decisions are we going to make, doesn't mean he causes, or "programs" our decisions, or us.
But the idea that God already knows whats going to happen, means the future can only happen one way.
If the future can only happen one way, then there are no other options or possiblities.
If thier are no other options or possibilities, then everything we do is already done, fixed.
Therefore, we really don't have a choice. The timeline is fixed, like a BOOK that God is reading.
The characters of a BOOK do not have thier own choices, no matter how many times you read the book, the ending will always be the same. There is no freedom of choice involved, because freedom of choice would mean different endings (options).
Do you understand this ?
Originally posted by darkfan76
He respects our free will above all things. And he wants to freely love and obbey him.
You can't choose to love someone, you either do or you don't. It comes naturally, not forced.
Originally posted by darkfan76
The free will given to us by God is one of our greatest gift. God respect our free will so much, than he even allows us to deny him. He didn't create robots to be programmed to obbey and love him. He wanted human beings capable of making their own decisions even if the make the wrong ones.
God doesn't respect our Free Will at all, if he did, he wouldn't send people to eternal torture as a punishment for our choices.