Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
So does that mean he'll never lose a game of soggy biscuit?
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Twas my opinion 😐 I can see yours is different.
Originally posted by Kento
I think the best part of the manga was the beginning. Before the card games happened. Though maybe it's just because Yami was a lot more violent and played shadow games.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeI just don't see how one can think Noah's a better antagonist than Gozaburo when he even turns good in the end, but whatever. 😬 Like you said, your opinion.
Just because he turns 'good' in the end doesn't mean he wasn't an antagonist 😐. He does oppose the main co. for most of the arc.
Also, does suddenly turning good overrule every bad thing someone has done?
It's similar to how I don't see how Shang Tsung can be better than Liu, but that's the thing, it's an opinion 😐. (Liu's beaten him too many times for it to be considered PIS)...I'll stop the vid game discussion, just trying to make a point.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Just because he turns 'good' in the end doesn't mean he wasn't an antagonist 😐.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Also, does suddenly turning good overrule every bad thing someone has done?
Like you said, he was misguided too.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It's similar to how I don't see how Shang Tsung can be better than Liu, but that's the thing, it's an opinion 😐. (Liu's beaten him too many times for it to be considered PIS)...I'll stop the vid game discussion, just trying to make a point.
2. It doesn't matter how many times Liu has beaten Tsung in their encounters (canon or not). The fact he beats someone who has far more combat experience, abilities, knows more fighting styles than him, etc. makes it PIS.
If you want to go by feats, Tsung had been winning several Mortal Kombat tournaments over the centuries before Liu was even born. Liu won like, two. Maybe three tournaments?
Plus, you admitted here that his victory in the tournaments where he beat Shao Kahn and Shinnok were PIS, or the 'protagonist clause' as you called it..
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Game protagonist clause, where the protagonist somehow wins over the antagonist, that's not necessarily PIS though is it. Meh, it is, at least with respect to Khan and Shinnok.
edit: If you end up responding to all this, I'll post in the Marshall Law vs Liu Kang thread again to keep this one from going completely off topic.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I meant like an antagonist at heart. One that doesn't change, ya know? Needless to say, Noah did.
I get what you mean.
Though by classical definition, Noah was an antagonist, even if he wasn't all the time.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Normally, of course not, but in Noah's case, I think it pretty much does. Why? Let's see.. Noah could've escaped on the helicopter in Mokuba's body and gotten away with it, but instead he went back to free Yugi and company at the last minute, used Gozaburo's satellite against him, and went back to the virtual world and stayed there to make sure Gozaburo wouldn't escape/harm the others.Like you said, he was misguided too.
Well, I don't remember it being explicitly stated (care to remind me? I could be wrong), so Noah could have other reasons for stopping Gozaburo, such as the realization that he was being used, thus wanting to get some form of revenge.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
1. Tsung is overall more versatile when it comes to combat style due to his experience and sheer number of styles. He knows more fighting styles than Liu. That, in addition to his ability to shape-shift into other characters and use their special attacks (if you've played the games, which I'm sure you have) would naturally give Shang a guaranteed victory against Liu in a sensible fight.2. It doesn't matter how many times Liu has beaten Tsung in their encounters (canon or not). The fact he beats someone who has far more combat experience, abilities, knows more fighting styles than him, etc. makes it PIS.
If you want to go by feats, Tsung had been winning several Mortal Kombat tournaments over the centuries before Liu was even born. Liu won like, two. Maybe three tournaments?
CIS is more like it, not PIS, since Tsung never bothered to use his shape-shifting in their latest battle (Deadly Alliance, not Armageddon). By KMC rules (Comic Vs Forum, don't know if the same rules apply here), I agree, Tsung should win if he uses everything at his disposal wisely.
Also, Tsung can only shape-shift into the people who's souls he has take iirc. The shifting into other MK fighters that he hasn't killed was just a gameplay feature.
And another thing that affects him is his state, he's like the Galactus of MK in terms of health.
By feats, PIS or otherwise, Liu's beaten Shao Khan, someone Shang fears for the most part.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Plus, you admitted here that his victory in the tournaments where he beat Shao Kahn and Shinnok were PIS, or the 'protagonist clause' as you called it..
Said protagonist receives some form of a power-up/drive/Deus-ex Machina, so it sounds much better than PIS imo 😬.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
It is with respect to Tsung as well ^^, for the reasons stated above, IMO. (See, I said IMO. Not in some attempt to change your opinion, but merely to express mine 😛)edit: If you end up responding to all this, I'll post in the Marshall Law vs Liu Kang thread again to keep this one from going completely off topic.
TSUNG SUCKS IMO, KTHXBAI uhuh 😛
Also, Liu's Flying Kick is not equal to somehow 😛.
Meh, sorry if you think I went over board with the opinion thing.
Perhaps a Shang Tsung vs. Liu Kang thread would be better off...come to think of it, why didn't you respond? I posted there (Law vs Liu)
EDIT: The friendship thing in Yu-Gi-Oh!, who here thinks that was a little too extreme?
Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ that's only due to the editing process, in the original manga, "joey" had a fistfight with a thug and both of them had to keep pocket knives in between their teeth...blade pointing inwards. 😐north american television would never show that to kids.
I don't know why not. If any kid would've tried it then it would help us thin out the ranks of future dumbasses.
Originally posted by psycho gundam😛 That was before the card games. Back when Yami played shadow games...and cheated at least once I remember to win because he was physically weaker.
^ that's only due to the editing process, in the original manga, "joey" had a fistfight with a thug and both of them had to keep pocket knives in between their teeth...blade pointing inwards. 😐north american television would never show that to kids.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I get what you mean.
Though by classical definition, Noah was an antagonist, even if he wasn't all the time.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well, I don't remember it being explicitly stated (care to remind me? I could be wrong), so Noah could have other reasons for stopping Gozaburo, such as the realization that he was being used, thus wanting to get some form of revenge.
mmm
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
EDIT: The friendship thing in Yu-Gi-Oh!, who here thinks that was a little too extreme?
Originally posted by Kento
That and the card games turned Joey into a wimp.
Originally posted by Kento
😛 That was before the card games. Back when Yami played shadow games...and cheated at least once I remember to win because he was physically weaker.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeWhen Joey began to play the card game he became less like some high school punk that fought.Um... what? Explain.
Hmm.. I don't seem to quite remember that. 😬
Have you read the manga? Before the card games Yami played this one guy that was bullying the class to a game on top of a grill that was sorta like air hockey. Except it was a piece of ice with some kinda explosive in the center. And whoever it melted on lost obviously. But he was loosing a battle of power with the guy so he hits the thing to crack it so it'll break when the guy hits it.
I'm also pretty sure there was no way the guy he burned had any way to win though being a thief or a killer or whatever I forget he deserved it. But still most of his shadow games made it where he could win.
Agreed. I guess Marik didn't feel the need to though since he had Ra.
Also would've liked to see the end result of Bakura and Kaiba's duel (Bakura left early, shortly before traveling to the ancient past. He had a perfect chance to finish off Kaiba too, but instead handed Seto Pegasus's Millennium Eye and fled). 😬
Indeed. 🙂 Same for a Kaiba and Rafael duel as I kinda said earlier. Makes me wonder if Seto would use the Seal of Orichalcos if given the chance like Rafael did to Yugi/Atem in their first duel. Not to mention, it would be funny seeing Kaiba acting all different under the Seal's influence, especially for a rich prick who doesn't believe in magic, his ancient past, and all that. 😛
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Well, that's true I guess.Yeah. That was another reason he did that, but not the only one.
mmm
I suppose.. but it didn't seem nearly as bad when you compare it to something like the friendship clause in the Pokemon anime. 😂
mmm
Don't watch Pokemon, so it's still bad 😛
Originally posted by Kento
Me..Kinda why I dislike Tea. And why I like the first part of the series better. Before the card games. That and the card games turned Joey into a wimp.
As for one duel I would have loved to see, probably would be the duel between Joey & Yugi which Joey supposedly won.