Originally posted by manorastroman
lily allen plain does not deserve do be lumped in with avril lavigne, regardless of her father or her personality at age fifteen. her music is leagues beyond avril/sean paul/destiny's child whathaveyou.
When your single is rated #7 in Rolling Stone's top 100 of 2006, and when your album is pretty much unanimously a critical success, your music doesn't suck I'm afraid to say.
But people don't like her...so they say she sucks...good logic.
Originally posted by jaden101
lucky for me that i know what i'm talking about then isn't it?
Maybe you should consider the possibility that you might not be open-minded enough to determine what's good in modern day pop music (and the Streets or Basement Jaxx isn't the sort of pop music we've been talking about).
...and of course MJ and Elton John are good. That's a no-brainer.
Re: Why all the pop hate?
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I find it kinda weird how so many people in here diss pop music. And I'm talking about your typical pop music, not simply bands that play on popular radio like My Chemical Romance (who IMO are more s*%# than most pop acts out there today).Really, this has mostly to do with people just being afraid of associating themselves with pop songs or artists because of the bad rap (and often rightfully so) they've gotten in the past.
But this "pop sucks" attitude has just become old, and as far as I've seen it's usually people who show insecurities when talking about bands they like, and who don't seem to have the abilities to know what good music is.
There's good music in pretty much every genre, but when it comes to pop, people so smugly brush it aside. Lame.
Just off the top of my head, Destiny's Child, Justin Timberlake, Lily Allen, Nelly Furtado, Sean Paul, Missy Elliot, Avril Lavigne, Black Eyes Peas, and Madonna have all laid down some solid pop tracks over recent years. Granted they probably have shitty albums, but they do what they do best and give us a couple songs each like "Get Busy", "Don't Phunk with My Heart", "Bootylicious", "Smile", "Music", or "Like I Love You" that we can listen to for a couple weeks and then forget about.
Sure it's pop...but it's not all that bad.
No, you see, you're confusing the issue.
I like any music as long as I personally think it's good. I'm not going to like music just for the sake of it. If someone made a pop album today that I liked, I'd admit to liking it. I like Michael Jackson, I like Diana Ross & The Supremes (Who I guess had pop influence.) etc.
You're right, there's good music in every genre, but none of the artists you named, to me, are any good at all. The fact that you either like their songs or think you HAVE to, just for the sake of not brushing them aside, doesn't detract from me not thinking they are good. It's an excuse to make you feel better about liking some shit music. You obviously expect us to all go "Yes they're shit, but we like them.", which just...makes zero sense.
You obviously believe we have to give them credit for trying. We don't, they can jump off bridges as far as I'm concerned. All they're good for is keeping idiots away from the good stuff.
Lily Allen is shit, fake and possibly the biggest poser in recent UK music history. As I have proven, you're an anglophile. You like almost anything English. You can't assure anybody she isn't shit. Music taste is subjective, we've been over this. There's no objectively good music. I'm not going to lump Lily Allen with Avril Lavigne because her music is better, in my opinion. I'm not going to say she's worse than she is just because I dislike her music, but I think it's shit, just like you think it's good. Neither of us are "right" or "wrong".
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
...and of course MJ and Elton John are good. That's a no-brainer.
Not to everyone. They're not factually good.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriYou know I'll disagree. 'Cause there is good and s*$% music...but let's not go there.
No, you see, you're confusing the issue.I like any music as long as I personally think it's good...
The way I see things, you like any music becasue...you like it. That's it. I'd say whether you think it's good or not is a seperate issue.
But whatever.
To you, not to me, Manor. To me she makes shit music.
She could be the most genuine woman on Earth, but to me, she makes shit music.
EPIIIBITES likes her because he feels she gives a good account of London life, because he's from a faaaar away land. This is why I call her a poser, because she's not giving a real account of anything. It's not presumed, I know for a fact she's a poser.
-AC
Re: Re: Re: Why all the pop hate?
Originally posted by manorastroman
not to start this up again, but what exactly are you trying to accomplish? do you want people to preface every opinion with "i think" or "most critics agree"?
What's your point? They're not factually good are they? Someone isn't wrong for thinking they are not good, which is what Epibites is implying.
-AC
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
You know I'll disagree. 'Cause there is good and s*$% music...but let's not go there.The way I see things, you like any music becasue you like it. That's it. I'd say whether you think it's good or not is a seperate issue.
But whatever.
You're wrong, though.
The FACT is, there's no such thing as factually good music or factually bad music, no matter how "obvious.". As me and almost everyone else had proven to you before. So maybe it's best for you if we don't go there.
Critics agreeing on something means nothing.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
EPIIIBITES likes her because he feels she gives a good account of London life, because he's from a faaaar away land. This is why I call her a poser, because she's not giving a real account of anything. It's not presumed, I know for a fact she's a poser.-AC
Originally posted by EPIIIBITESI like the song Unwanted... that's pretty much it... oh and Complicated is kinda catchy... and I'm Canadian so I have to give the love to the Canadian artists even though Canadian bands seem to be a hit on this forum.
I'd say she's probably the weakest on that list in terms of hit singles..."I'm With You" and "Happy Ending" are good pop tunes, but the rest I'd say are mediocre...not horrible though (except for that latest one, "Girlfriend"...pretty darn weak).
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're wrong, though.The FACT is, there's no such thing as factually good music or factually bad music, no matter how "obvious.". As me and almost everyone else had proven to you before. So maybe it's best for you if we don't go there.
no, not factually. but considering the lengthy back-n-forths on the subject, it seems like you could just mentally insert the subtext of "i'm epiiibites and this is what i think" instead of bumping in with the "it's not fact" thing everytime he gives an opinion. because, you know, otherwise we'd have to start with the prefaces.
and you couldn't say somebody was wrong, or even that they had bad taste, but once again, it's not like critics review albums purely subjectively. there ARE aesthetic perimiters. (i sincerely hoped i would never type that phrase again)
Originally posted by Nellinator
I like the song Unwanted... that's pretty much it... oh and Complicated is kinda catchy... and I'm Canadian so I have to give the love to the Canadian artists even though Canadian bands seem to be a hit on this forum.
What bs is that? You don't HAVE to give love to her because she's Canadian.
You have to like her because she was born in the same country? Ridiculous.
-AC
Originally posted by manorastroman
no, not factually. but considering the lengthy back-n-forths on the subject, it seems like you could just mentally insert the subtext of "i'm epiiibites and this is what i think" instead of bumping in with the "it's not fact" thing everytime he gives an opinion. because, you know, otherwise we'd have to start with the prefaces.and you couldn't say somebody was wrong, or even that they had bad taste, but once again, it's not like critics review albums purely subjectively. there ARE aesthetic perimiters. (i sincerely hoped i would never type that phrase again)
What you fail to understand is, he doesn't think it's his opinion, he actually believes Lily Allen makes factually and undeniably good music. This is the problem, because he debates from the stance of there being no subjectivity in taste. Or there being objectivity in taste.
You can go on about whatever you want aesthetically, it doesn't change the stone cold fact that there is no right or wrong in taste. There are objective areas which make people better musicians, but as far as personally interpreting the music, it's all subjective. Fact.
If you know this, stop trying to pipe up with little tidbits.
Originally posted by manorastroman
well i mean...it's not FACTUALLY ridiculous. vin
Who said it was? Playing the smart-ass doesn't work for you.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
It can't be a proven fact, but I'd say it's a truth.
Truth is fact. A fact is an undeniable truth. You're being an idiot.
-AC