Objectivity in Music.

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
So if you say:

a) There is no fact involved

b) Fact is equal to truth

then what are you arguing about? Fact and truth are firmly grounded in objective reality. If fact has nothing to do with it, then you must admit that good and bad music is determined by subjective tastes. There is no other option.

That's why he tries to drag the philosophy of subjective reality into it, because he's a moron who can't admit that he's wrong, cos that'd mean admitting me, and others, had beaten him.

-AC

What's with all the weak attempts at psychological mindgames to suggest it's just about not admitting something?

Classic AC...again.

I don't agree with it...it doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
EPIIIBITES, there are many things beyond you. You keep posting your last piece and I'll report you for trolling.

More classic AC.

What a guy!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's why he tries to drag the philosophy of subjective reality into it, because he's a moron who can't admit that he's wrong, cos that'd mean admitting me, and others, had beaten him.

-AC

Well, we could argue about theories on consensus reality all day. But I still believe that any reasonable person can come to the conclusion that the concept of an objective truth in regard to good and bad music is just not a reality.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
What's with all the weak attempts at psychological mindgames to suggest it's just about not admitting something?

Classic AC...again.

I don't agree with it...it doesn't make sense to me.

And your argument doesn’t really make sense to any of us. If we’re not “getting” what you’re trying to say, I really don’t think it’s our fault. You’re just not articulating your point to a degree that anyone can really make sense of. So, either we have to assume that you don’t know what you’re talking about, or you don’t know how to explain your line of thinking. OR that you just don't want to admit that you're wrong.

In any case, I think it’s plain to see how your critics (myself included) came to a conclusion on the matter. What don’t you understand?

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
So if you say:

a) There is no fact involved

b) Fact is equal to truth

then what are you arguing about? Fact and truth are firmly grounded in objective reality. If fact has nothing to do with it, then you must admit that good and bad music is determined by subjective tastes. There is no other option.

That's what I'm arguing about.

I'm saying there are unproven truths that exist...that I guess, only God could prove.

And an example I've given is "killing is wrong" is a TRUTH.

I don't care if you think it isn't...and I don't care if you think it just comes down to opinion. I say it's a universal truth...and for all you know, I could darn well be right.

So don't sit there (AC too, and whoever else there might be) and PRETEND you KNOW the converse of what I'm saying. That's quite lofty of you.

Because at the end of the day...you just DON'T.

Don't fool yourselves in thinking that you ACTUALLY have some kind of logical, factual explanation that gives your argument credence and discounts mine, simply because modern science says "truths are provable by fact".

Pleeeease.

The real truth about "truths" goes far beyond modern science.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I disagree with your fundamental belief that truth can only be proven by fact.

That's what I'm arguing about.

I'm saying there are unproven truths that exist...that I guess, only God could prove.

Well, unless you're God, you're gonna have a hard time convincing anyone besides yourself that you're right.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I disagree with your fundamental belief that truth can only be proven by fact.

That's what I'm arguing about.

I'm saying there are unproven truths that exist...that I guess, only God could prove.

But...you...are...wrong.

What do you not grasp about that? You think that because it's a belief you have faith in, it's automatically got some unbreakable shield?

-AC

It appears you guys didn't read all of this (plus I added some stuff)...here it is again...

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I disagree with your fundamental belief that truth can only be proven by fact.

That's what I'm arguing about.

I'm saying there are unproven truths that exist...that I guess, only God could prove.

And an example I've given is "killing is wrong" is a TRUTH.

I don't care if you think it isn't...and I don't care if you think it just comes down to opinion. I say it's a universal truth...and for all you know, I could darn well be right.

So don't sit there (AC too, and whoever else there might be) and PRETEND you KNOW the converse of what I'm saying. That's quite lofty of you.

Because at the end of the day...you just DON'T.

Don't fool yourselves in thinking that you ACTUALLY have some kind of logical, factual explanation that gives your argument credence and discounts mine, simply because modern science says "truths are provable by fact".

Pleeeease.

The real truth about "truths" goes far beyond modern science.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I disagree with your fundamental belief that truth can only be proven by fact.

That's what I'm arguing about.

I'm saying there are unproven truths that exist...that I guess, only God could prove.

And an example I've given is "killing is wrong" is a TRUTH.

I don't care if you think it isn't...and I don't care if you think it just comes down to opinion. I say it's a universal truth...and for all you know, I could darn well be right.

So don't sit there (AC too, and whoever else there might be) and PRETEND you KNOW the converse of what I'm saying. That's quite lofty of you.

Because at the end of the day...you just DON'T.

Who ever said killing was wrong? Is that a truth? In America, people are put to death (capital punishment) by the government. In war, people are killed in thousands, sometimes more. Animals kill other animals so that they can survive. It is not any kind of truth. It is subjective. It is consensus reality.

At the end of the day, nobody knows what you're saying because you haven't explained it in a way that makes any real sense to anyone other than yourself.

Faith-based opinions (and it IS an opinion) usually don't go far in a debate.

Did you get that, or do you need to hear it again?

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
The real truth about "truths" goes far beyond modern science.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I disagree with your fundamental belief that truth can only be proven by fact.

That's what I'm arguing about.

I'm saying there are unproven truths that exist...that I guess, only God could prove.

And an example I've given is "killing is wrong" is a TRUTH.

I don't care if you think it isn't...and I don't care if you think it just comes down to opinion. I say it's a universal truth...and for all you know, I could darn well be right.

So don't sit there (AC too, and whoever else there might be) and PRETEND you KNOW the converse of what I'm saying. That's quite lofty of you.

Because at the end of the day...you just DON'T.

The thing is, if you make a claim, and expect it to be given some credence, you have to back it evidentially. It's not incumbent upon the person with the opposing view to prove that the opposing view is true, because that would mean proving a negative.

If I say I believe I could probably fly, you couldn't, after thinking of the similarly-named R Kelly song, prove it wrong beyond all doubt.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Don't fool yourselves in thinking that you ACTUALLY have some kind of logical, factual explanation that gives your argument credence and discounts mine, simply because modern science says "truths are provable by fact".

Pleeeease.

The real truth about "truths" goes far beyond modern science.

If you're going to call science into question, you have a lot of explaining to do.

For crying out loud, would you stop trying (and failing.) to be philosophical?

Music quality is factually and truthfully (Because they ARE the same.) subjective.

End.

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
If you're going to call science into question, you have a lot of explaining to do.

He can't. That's his jail-card.

"...but I can't prove it.".

-AC

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
Animals kill other animals so that they can survive. It is not any kind of truth. It is subjective. It is consensus reality.

Second of all, you're the kind of person that thinks along the lines of "killing being wrong is a matter of opinion"...I'm not.

So great...you're entitled to your opinion...but don't be surprised if one day you realize that you just happen to be "dead" wrong about that.

Because really, you just don't KNOW if you're right about this or not.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
First of all, I'm talking about humans.

And we're talking about music, but that didn't stop you talking about food and weather did it? Idiot.

Why aren't you replying to EVERYTHING that EVERYONE says? Is it because you avoid everything that you know proves you undeniably wrong? That you CAN'T bs a reply to? You've skipped so many posts and parts of posts that it's a disgrace.

You think our beliefs are OPINION simply because if they were fact, which they are, YOU would be wrong.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And we're talking about music, but that didn't stop you talking about food and weather did it? Idiot.

Go and reply to the other posts you skipped, stop blocking things out, you hypocrite.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why aren't you replying to EVERYTHING that EVERYONE says? Is it because you avoid everything that you know proves you undeniably wrong? That you CAN'T bs a reply to? You've skipped so many posts and parts of posts that it's a disgrace.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Go and reply to the other posts you skipped, stop blocking things out, you hypocrite.

AC is saying the stuff I accused him of earlier.

How obvious.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Hmmm...

I think I heard someone mention once that AC might be the least accomodating, understanding person on these boards.

Curious why someone would say something like that...

Well, seeing as how AC is now resorting to defaming me by suggesting I'm arguing unfairly...I could maybe see why someone would say this.

Is that all you have left AC?

Trying to turn people against me?