USH'S MATRIX GAME 2006 FOURTH ASSIGNMENT (PHILOSOPHY)- 'The Door'

Is it really exactly that choice? And entire mankind? I have doubts.

I am asking you about that choice.

And doubltful or not, that is the situation.

Remember Berserker is a Moral man. He believes in God he believes he has a choice and that choice is his effect. Machines and Humans generally may choose their own kind it was once like that between races and in some parts still is. But it does take that one person who is willing to stand for what they believe in before anything does happen. Look at Martin Luther King.

Berserker would rather stop the Virus and not loose the lives of those people because it is the right thing to do. At least for Berserker it is.

Very well, everyone happy there?

Now I am morally confused by your implication that I would doom the humanity by stopping the Virus. Melkor still would like to stop it, but perhaps others could talk him out of it, and he may not fight them over it.

But I mostly agree with Berserker.

It's a risk. it is very possible that there may enevr be any other way yo save humanity. No other way has come before, and as I was ouytling to heph above, the Virus is a fact. Would you pass up a factual chance to save humanity for theoretical ones you have no real reason to think will happen?

I think one of the most powerful issues to consider here is definitely "What if this is our last chance?"

Well, it is a matter of hope then, not inevitable doom. We have no right to do it. We even have no right to kill those Exiles. It is better to return to stituation before the Virus and search for other solutions, Neo or else.

If we are supposed to fight, we should fight for something better. I stand with Berserker.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Gosh. I'll never know what Azrael said now.

It was along the lines of:

Since the aim of Zion is to free the people in the Matrix, any attempt at doing so would result in huge numbers of deaths (i.e. there'd be no way to get everyone out).

And I tried editing it a couple of times to make sense, but I couldn't make it clear. Sorry.

Azrael sees a contradiction in the logic that both Melkor and Berserker are willing to kill small numbers of people personally, but are getting antsy about letting someone else kill lots of people. I'm happy with my answer, though.

Ok, now.

I am going to ask what might seem an odd question at this pount.

But... does anyone want to change their mind? Perhaps in response to what others have said, perhaps not.

Heph would have agreed with Melkor and Berserker at first, but now he is likely sticking with his answer.

Berserker will think about everything that is said. Berserker would agree that it is probably the most logical thing to do but it isn't the right thing to do. Berserker can not just sit by and let so many people die.

He refuses to think like the King.

Berserker and Melkor have made a lot of points, which mostly only I have contended with. How do the 'pro-Virus' brigade deal with those?

Hmm, you didn`t contend much with the opposite view?

Originally posted by Lord Melkor
Hmm, you didn`t contend much with the opposite view?

😛

Either way this is the way Berserker would have chosen.

Well, their views appeared to be logically consistet.

Especially for people who earlier said that there wasn't any right or wrong.

So my views are very inconsistent?

I want to say that Melkor is coming to conclusion that there is objective right and wrong, and maturing over his extremally individualistic eartlier views. Basis of his beliefs is respect for life and rights of others.

No, not necessarily, but as your previous comments showed a moral view, I was contending your point with moral questions., Not a sign of any form of right or wrong. Really more a sign that I had something to get to grips with.

Well Berserker is Moral and he believes in a pre-determined path in which we all make a decision. Berserker wouldn't sacrifice all these people.

In this game there is a direct comparison to be made. The King was willing to sacrifice so many of his people by destroying the Human race. Berserker will not allow himself to be someone like the King where he is willing to kill so many simply to reach a goal.

Berserker feels that such a victory isn't a victory at all if that is what Society will be based upon. Even the machines were not willing to do that.

I still don't understand how you two can be happy with killing multitudes of mooks personally but being against an impersonal virus killing many more.

Berserker, your point that you don't want to kill people to achieve a goal is especially bizarre, since that's what you do in the Matrix. How many SWAT did you personally eliminate only a few (gametime) hours ago?

Actually, I think quite a few of the machines objected because the King's plan would have killed them. It wasn't so much about the others dying, but themselves.

Please do continue on that point as it is a very interesting area.

But I also want to throw something else into the equation.

How would anyone's thoughts be different if stopping the Virus would also save yourselves?