phoenix force vs mad jim jaspers/fury vs pretcon beyonder

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The thing you did wrong while posting this is to say that Mr Master lies.

Unlike others Mr Master isnt a fanboy,

if he sees a comics which were being A defeats being B,

he will go by that until it's disproven.

The thing that differs though is the perspective. He has his own view of how thing should be and how things are, what have he got them from, comics.

Like most members he tries to stand subjective, thus the argument can turn a little personal when fanboy's oversees fact's. Then you bring forth the information that will make the fanboy look stupid, a concrete example would be that Onslaught defeats Phoenix scan.

I do not say that I agree with him on everything,

because I don't.

But as a provider of information and facts Mr Master is at the top.

Thanks T,

honest and fair.

jaspers alone for the most part screwes phoenix 8/10 , beyonder doesnt even do anything n phoenix pees itself to death infront of him.

Originally posted by illadelph12
As for the fight, all Phoenix has is BFR as a possible tactic, and that's not even a proven course of action considering Fury's adaptations and ability to exist in the void. Timeline alteration likely won't work because many characters exist as a temporal paradox and Jaspers can rewrite the rules anyway.

Also, sort of an aside, and though this probably was never considered back in the old comic, but Jasper's shouldn't be powerless in a void because his presence in itself means their is reality to manipulate (his own being, and at that point, Fury's as well). Upon further logical analysis, that defeat makes no sense. Jaspers should have been able to pull a Tetsuo (for the Akira heads, word life) either on his own substance or Fury's,

I agree.

I overlooked that Ills,

now that I think about it,

that makes perfect sense.

Jaspers and Fury were Reality in Un-Reality,

Jaspers should have been able to draw on that.

I guess they knew that moment of PIS was necessary,

how else could they have finished the Arc.

Without the Fury (plot device)

Jaspers was literally Unstoppable.

Everyone seems to forget that,

Merlyn himself said he did Not have the power to stop him.

Merlyn who HAS Created UniverseS from scratch.

Merlyn who has imbued the Life-Force of every Universe in the Omniverse into 4" Crystals,

to do with as he wishes, as his daughter wishes:

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension"

"By breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"

Originally posted by leonheartmm
jaspers alone for the most part screwes phoenix 8/10 , beyonder doesnt even do anything n phoenix pees itself to death infront of him.

I hold everyone's opinion in esteem. I like Starlock. He's my friend. I have other friends in this thread as well. Just a comic yall. Guy222

Originally posted by leonheartmm
jaspers alone for the most part screwes phoenix 8/10 , beyonder doesnt even do anything n phoenix pees itself to death infront of him.

I personally see Jaspers/Fury taking Phoenix 10/10

Beyonder gestures and erases the Phoenix.

But I can live with 8/10 🙂

Originally posted by illadelph12
😆

Break them Beyonce pics out. Some Esther Baxter and Melyssa Ford pics too while you're at it. 😄

As for the fight, all Phoenix has is BFR as a possible tactic, and that's not even a proven course of action considering Fury's adaptations and ability to exist in the void. Timeline alteration likely won't work because many characters exist as a temporal paradox and Jaspers can rewrite the rules anyway.

Fury can exist in a void, but his Jaspers half is made redundant and there would be nothing to stop Phoenix from taking out Fury, in a flash once she removes him from reality. Fury on his own is no problem. He can be atomized or drained of energy. Either way it has no chance against the Force.

On top of that, theres nothing to say Jaspers would be a paradox. As far as we know thats not the case, it hasnt shown to be the case so time alteration is a possibility until the paradox theory is actually proven. On top of that Phoenix amputating the timeline and absorbing it into the WHR is also a possibility.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Also, sort of an aside, and though this probably was never considered back in the old comic, but Jasper's shouldn't be powerless in a void because his presence in itself means their is reality to manipulate (his own being, and at that point, Fury's as well). Upon further logical analysis, that defeat makes no sense. Jaspers should have been able to pull a Tetsuo (for the Akira heads, word life) either on his own substance or Fury's, but it's really of no consequence. It doesn't effect this board battle.

Draw, and that glass crown has another crack in it.

Irrelevant to the subject at hand. Nicely thought out tangent as ever. 🙂

The crown is as solid as ever. 😄

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The thing you did wrong while posting this is to say that Mr Master lies.
Unlike others Mr Master isnt a fanboy, if he sees a comics which were being A defeats being B, he will go by that until it's disproven.

The thing that differs though is the perspective. He has his own view of how thing should be and how things are, what have he got them from, comics.

Like most members he tries to stand subjective, thus the argument can turn a little personal when fanboy's oversees fact's. Then you bring forth the information that will make the fanboy look stupid, a concrete example would be that Onslaught defeats Phoenix scan.

I do not say that I agree with him on everything, because I don't.
But as a provider of information and facts Mr Master is at the top.

I will say it again,Mr Master is smart and resourcefull,but i dont side with liars and disrespectfull posters just to be popular or get what they have

Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree.

I overlooked that Ills,

now that I think about it,

that makes perfect sense.

Jaspers and Fury were Reality in Un-Reality,

Jaspers should have been able to draw on that.

I guess they knew that moment of PIS was necessary,

how else could they have finished the Arc.

Without the Fury (plot device)

Jaspers was literally Unstoppable.

Everyone seems to forget that,

Merlyn himself said he did Not have the power to stop him.

Merlyn who HAS Created UniverseS from scratch.

Merlyn who has imbued the Life-Force of every Universe in the Omniverse into 4" Crystals,

to do with as he wishes, as his daughter wishes:

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension"

"By breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"

Merlyn didnt have the power to stop Jaspers because in the scheme of things hes not that special power wise. Once again, dont confuse power with role.

Quasars bands tap into the energy of a whole other dimesnion, Galactus eats planets, does that mean Quasar is more powerful than Galactus?

Merlyn had the energy matrix that runs throughout the multiverse as his own personal power source until Meggan destroyed it. He had an awesome power source, but he was limited in how much he could use at once because inherently he was nothing special.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree.

I overlooked that Ills,

now that I think about it,

that makes perfect sense.

Jaspers and Fury were Reality in Un-Reality,

Jaspers should have been able to draw on that.

I guess they knew that moment of PIS was necessary,

how else could they have finished the Arc.

Without the Fury (plot device)

Jaspers was literally Unstoppable.

Everyone seems to forget that,

Merlyn himself said he did Not have the power to stop him.

Merlyn who HAS Created UniverseS from scratch.

Merlyn who has imbued the Life-Force of every Universe in the Omniverse into 4" Crystals,

to do with as he wishes, as his daughter wishes:

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension"

"By breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"

did he say that he didn't have the power ore didn't have the authority to do so??? cannot remember he said he couldn't with his own power but maybe I am wrong haven't been reading comics for some time

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Merlyn didnt have the power to stop Jaspers because in the scheme of things hes not that special power wise. Once again, dont confuse power with role.

Merlyn had the energy matrix that runs throughout the multiverse as his own personal power source until Meggan destroyed it. He had an awesome power source, but he was limited in how much he could use at once because inherently he was nothing special.

Merlyn's draws his power from the Energy Matrix.

The Energy Matrix is a source of energy that manifests when the Interface Alignment took place.

The Interface Alignment is when a series of Interfaces across the Multiverse aligned perfectly to create a Matrix of unimaginable power.

This alignment would only last a short moment, and thus was never able to be tapped.

There was a central Tower (in Reality 616) where the Interface passed through, but in order to keep the Interfaces Aligned, they needed to have Other Towers in Other Universes.

SO ...

Necrom put Feron (his student) upto the task of controlling the Phoenix Force, so Feron could manipulate the PF into projecting the Tower across the Multiverse VIA the Interface Alignment.

The Energy fields merge on their OWN... and the Interfaces across the Mulitverse Align by themselves...

"AT the moment of ALIGNMENT,

THEN Feron called Phoenix to project the Tower",

it was the Energy Matrix (On it's Own) that allows simultaneous existence in the Multiverse when the Interfaces Across are Aligned, Which Also happens ON it's Own ....

Phoenix made a duplicate of the original Tower and it simultaneously duplicated itself across the Multi-verse because of the Interface Alingment.

This created a consistent Energy Matrix, because the Interfaces were Alingment permanently.

Necrom's plan was to collapse the Energy Matrix to absorb all it's power and become the "God" of all creation.

But instead,

While Necrom and Feron had fought,

MERLYN had JUMPED INTO the Energy Matrix...

He was swept across the Multiverse and was finally able to control the Energy Matrix, without needing to collapse it.

This is Merlyn's very first appearance in a CB title:

"I am the beauty of the green Earth and the white Moon amongst the Stars"

"The mystery of the Waters, and the desire of the Heart of man"

"I am the Soul of Nature who giveth Life to the Universe"

"From me ... ALL Things proceed ... and unto me ... ALL Things must Return"

Energy Matrix empowered Merlyn created a Universe (Otherworld) from scrath.

Otherworld is a Universe, but as grand as a Multiverse:

"I Mastered the Energy Matrix and established Otherworld"

Merlyn created the Starlight Citidel:

"from this venue, the Guardian of Reality can view events on every Plane of the Omniverse"

The Starlight Citidel's defenses can obliterate Universes:

"The Citidel is sentient, a reflection of the Guardian ... with a defensive array that could EASILY lay waste an entire Dimension"

The Stralight Citidel houses Countless Universes,

Just the HALL in the Starlight Citadel can fit Entire Planets:

"BUT when Her CITADEL FALLS, that impossibly vast Space is suddenly crowded"

"With an inconceivable variety & number of species, as all the Dimensions there are suddenly crash into one"

Merlyn created the Celestial Nullifier, which is within the Citidel:

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension"

"By breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse ceases to exist"

Necrom was literally collapsing the Multiverse, this was causing Captain Britain to absorb the power of Merlyn's Energy Matrix

Then Meggan, Kitty Pride, Rachel Summers and Night Crawler Merge with Captain Britain to add different abilities to Captain Britain's power.

ONLY Brian has the power of the Matrix, the others add versatility to his power.

"This is all too neat ... it can't be coincidence"

"I know ... we are being Manipulated"

The Energy Matrix gives Brian the power to actually REVERSE the collapse,

he literally Rebuilds the Multiverse

"We have saved the Multiverse"

Guess who Manipulated the whole thing?

And yet my last post still stands. You've missed the point. Great power source, limited being, limited use of it. It wasnt a power inherent to him. It was easily taken away from him by Excalibur destroying the lighthouses.

With the power of the Energy Matrix, which is what he had,

he could literally Fold the Multiverse, or rebuild it effortlessly,

Brian only had a good portion of the Matrix, and you saw in the scans his capability.

Merlyn allowed Brian to absorb power from His Matrix,

to Merlyn it's all a game, it always has been,

(just to see how events play out)

Since back in the day playing a Chess Game with Roma which was linked to the Life-Force of the Multiverse,

the wrong side loses the game, ... the Multiverse dies, it's as simple as that.

"The Game's disintegrating, but the MULTI-VERSE DEPENDS upon the GAME"

And this was only a training session for Roma, who was to replace him as Omniversal Guardian.

"Merlin taught you that REALITY is a Grand Game of Chess"

Merlyn manipulated the Multiverse on a Chess Board,

and had other Boards floating around (other Multiverses I presume)

As Merlin and Roma moved their Chess Pieces, Reality is Altered accordingly:

Even Mad Jim Jaspers, (the Omniversal threat) is just One of their Game Pieces.

Roma and Merlyn are the Omniversal guardians

"but you know where she lives right?"

are you demented, you're talking about the next best thing to GOD" (Omniversal Guardian)

They can do with Universes as they wish.

Merlin says,

"I've missed something, I ... of all people"

Roma responds,

"No one is infallible Father, sometimes I think a strong Wind will blow you over"

Merlin replies,

"Ah yes ... but I MAKE the Winds"

In other words, regardless of the peril, he's in charge.

You've taken the chess game too literally. The game was representative of his plans and what he had up his sleeve for reality. It wanst literally reality and its components. As far as Merlyn manipulating events it wasnt through power/energy manipulation, it was through carefully laid plans, it was indirect and underhand.

Regardless. Stop trying to hype up Merlyn so that you can turn around and say, Merlyn couldnt stop Jaspers so look how great Jaspers was.

For one, youre misinterpreting Merlyns appearances and once again taking symbolism literally. Secondly, thats once again abc logic. 👇

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Regardless. Stop trying to hype up Merlyn so that you can turn around and say, Merlyn couldnt stop Jaspers so look how great Jaspers was.

For one, youre misinterpreting Merlyns appearances and once again taking symbolism literally. Secondly, thats once again abc logic. 👇

Same ol same ol,

Now let's demean Merlyn's Power and Feats. 😆

No one can do anything except for Phoenix.

This is boring already,

I'm done.

Originally posted by starlock
I hate liars, decietfull people, people who misrepresent scans,

if you fall into these catorgories well too bad

OK MR Masters

Mr Masters hatred of the phoenix is relevent when he post in these threads,

as is his lies

And its all to win a debate and show off for his flunkies, I am not impressed

But i do see a change in the words you choose now Mr Master ,

you are now behaving properly,

it was nice to teach you some manners

Originally posted by starlock
so as far as i am concerned you are just blind to his stuff so you can use him for what he has,

if i was such a hater how come i have not messed with respect threads like you and Mr Master?

Originally posted by starlock
I will say it again, Mr Master is smart and resourcefull,

but i dont side with liars

and disrespectfull posters just to be popular or get what they have

I can't believe people come to this board just to do this, you should save your infatuation with mr m for another time you're interrupting an interesting debate with this off topic trash talk. GS and Mr M you guys were doing a great job please do not be influenced by socks so we can enjoy your work.

Originally posted by starlock
[B]At the top of what? what are you saying about the onslaught scan was it a lie?
Thats cool Thanos_thotu,but in the same threads ive seen you insult someone for bad spelling and in your same post you were mispelling yourself,you like to have your version of fun also

No, if someone over and over make serious grammatical errors he sooner or later have to be corrected, now if I mistyped while doing that correction is another thing.

You were in the thread when he lied about quasar and his so called cosmic awareness he has,you were just to busy trading insults with Nvrbenwthagirl,so as far as i am concerned you are just blind to his stuff so you can use him for what he has, you just did not insult me for no reason and never tried to embarass me,if i was such a hater how come i have not messed with respect threads like you and Mr Master ?

You do not mess with respect threads, mainly because they're meant for building up respect for a under rated character. However if it goes out of hand and lies starts comming up then it has to be corrected as well.

And no, I havent insultet Nvr in a long time as well, I would however not overlook the facts he post though.

I will say it again,Mr Master is smart and resourcefull,but i dont side with liars and disrespectfull posters just to be popular or get what they have

MR Master
"Here is Onslaught WITHOUT Nate's or Franklin's Powers, in Astral Form:

Onslaught crushing and snuffing out the Phoenix Force like a measly candle"

(he then shows scans of an encounter in the astral plane)

Phoenix is overrated:

So Thanos_thotu tell me he was not misrepresenting the scans just to put down the phoenix,so what did the battle consist of? did jean as a host of the phoenix force fight onslaught?
You might be slick and say yes onslaught defeated phoenix,and then what? say that it was jeans call sign? Mr Master said what he said and lied,so much for the top of the fact finders around here

heres the link
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/430557_3-dark-phoenix-vs-onslaught

Now go ahead and defend Mr Masters,i would love to hear this