Originally posted by Soljer
I just wanted to point out that they would have had to GREATLY exceed the 2000 miles per second Vally stated earlier. Heat vision has gone from the Earth to the moon in the breadth of a panel before. If heat vision travelled at around two thousand miles per second, it would have taken around two minutes to make it from the Earth to the Moon.If it(heat vision) traveled at light speed, it would have taken heat vision about one and a quarter seconds to make it from the Earth to the Moon.
One and a quarter seconds seems a lot more realistic than two minutes. 😐.
Originally posted by Validus
I hate to expose myself as having DBZ knowledge but that was only for parts of the fight. Other parts of it could only be seen by Gohan.*cries*
Yeah, you're right. I was just pointing out that they could see them though, even for a short time. They seem to be able to see them when they're fighting h2h, but can't keep up with them when they use flight speed (the speed that makes them look like they're teleporting).
Originally posted by Validus
I always chalk things like that up to dramatic license. Pretty sure these writers aren't thinking about how fast such and such has to move to cover a certain amount of distance. I put it in same category as characters moving FTL in space while carrying on conversations.
Then, do we chalk Superman's Earth to the Sun feat up to dramatic license as well?
I mean, has it ever actually been stated that Superman can travel at several times the speed of light? On panel, in caption, I mean?
Originally posted by Skeets
In that scan it looked like Supes wasn't trying at all.
He didn't look like he was trying too hard when he hit the moon, either.
Not to mention the fact that Superman knows how fast the Flash can run. If heat vision IS dependent upon superman's will, he can likely vary the intensity as well as the speed. If he really wanted to slow the Flash down with a small blast of it, he could have tried just a little harder, and hit him? 😬.
Originally posted by Soljer
Then, do we chalk Superman's Earth to the Sun feat up to dramatic license as well?I mean, has it ever actually been stated that Superman can travel at several times the speed of light? On panel, in caption, I mean?
Originally posted by Validus
Depends on which Earth to Sun feat. If a time is given for how the long the action took, I look at it as a legit speed feat. When you have something like the Darkseid feat in S/B #13 where he took him to the sun while preaching about life, it's dramatic license. At least to me.
Fair enough, I suppose. To me, unless contradicted by on-panel evidence, the mathematical approximations win.
If heat vision makes it to the moon in a panel, it's probably able to travel at the speed of light. I've never seen anything that says it DOESN'T travel at the speed of light, after all.
However, in instances where on-panel narration DOES contradict the mathematical approximations, we are forced to go with the writers intention, which is, in fact, the on panel narration. (An example being the mathematical shit storm that is the Flash - he's done things that would require billions of times the speed of light, while the on panel narration said 'at just shy the speed of light.'😉
In instances where we have no accurate on panel narration, nor mathematical approximation (most of Superman's speed blitzes)....I'm really at a loss for what to do.
The Flash has speedblitzed people going at Mach 3. How do we know that ANY of Superman's speedblitzes have been at lightspeed? CAN Superman speedblitz at lightspeed?
I truly am at a loss.
Originally posted by Validus
Superman can travel at FTL speeds. That much is certain. It would technically be a blitz if he were to just fly up to someone at full speed, stop, and punch them in the face.
Well, let's say Superman can punch at super sonic speeds, and can fly at super luminal speeds.
To someone with 'super sonic' reflexes, it'd seem like Superman appeared out of no where(super luminal travel speed), but they'd be able to react and dodge/block/deal with the punch just as they would if he hadn't seemingly teleported.
I mean, if Superman wants to dive into someone at superluminal speeds, I can accept that no problem. But I must say there is a certain amount of doubt that Superman can truly FIGHT (punch, block, dodge, brawl) at super luminal speeds.
Originally posted by Juntai
Really? How do you explain page 5
I dont have Superman figth like an idiot Jun, but then again i dont have the team figth like idiots either.
Superman travel speed IS faster than the DBZ guys without teleport. However he isent faster at speedblitz: heck he doesnt even use speedblitz the way they do. Its apples and oranges.
Therefore as obvious, i dont use it as an advantage.
Originally posted by UniOmni
I do think Superman would win eventually, due to what he brings vs what they lack.But it won't be a second, or even a minute.
It'll take awhile to do so.
And Olympian is a competent poster.
Better than those who say Superman wins in a second, when he's never beaten a top tier in that amount of time, much less a team of them.
See this here? I migth not agree with Superman winning, but at least it has common sense.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Theres no proof to any of these theories. Fighting speed is hard to determine. Although based off his lightspeed running feat with the flash, Superman has at least lightspeed reflexes
That only mentions actual travel speed, tho. It doesnt reflect having reflexes on the same level.
The DBZ guys are different simply because theyr whole staple is having to use speed as a means to *figth* one each other. Its different than just say flying real fast and punch a guy in the face.
Originally posted by dvampire
Hercule (and the dog that was with him) was able to see the whole battle between ssj3 Goku and Vegeta vs. Kid Buu. That was the final battle in DBZ, which proves that Humans can see the fight even at the end.
Do we even know if the match was at FTLS?
Not only that do we also know if MrSatan was actually following the whole set of moves? That can be the same as the public of the budukai that knew the figthers were there and could hear the blows, but couldnt follow them move by move.
In any case, its not an isolated incident. During Superman`s battle with DOS DD, humans could follow them, altho i dont see them looking each move. Not that they wer at FTL or anything like that, buts its just another example.
That only mentions actual travel speed, tho. It doesnt reflect having reflexes on the same level.
Yes it does, he's running which means he's moving his limbs at those speeds. He has to move around obstacles at those speeds. He's even conversing with the Flash. This instance has led Comicbookresources to rule Superman has at least lightspeed reflexes.
Originally posted by GalvaclawIt's not worth it, when he won't even acknowledge the actual comic scans anymore in favor of his made up version of Superman that can't fight in Superspeed. When he wrecked The Elite so bad they couldn't even see him moving, he appeared as simple floating talk bubbles randomly. Or him on page 5 vibrating through and around Doomsdays attacks at hyperspeeds, or appearing at every angle imaginable at the same time while fighting Imperiex, or blitzing through the entire city. Or...
Yes it does, he's running which means he's moving his limbs at those speeds. He has to move around obstacles at those speeds. He's even conversing with the Flash. This instance has led Comicbookresources to rule Superman has at least lightspeed reflexes.
Anyways, you get it, he's not going to.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Yes it does, he's running which means he's moving his limbs at those speeds. He has to move around obstacles at those speeds. He's even conversing with the Flash. This instance has led Comicbookresources to rule Superman has at least lightspeed reflexes.
And what you don't understand, is that Flash wasn't anywhere near lightspeed in those scans.
As vally said, he was moving 2000 miles per second. Not even 1% of lightspeed.
And the fact that you're basing him going lightspeed on the fact that hv is lightspeed, is really laughable, since hv isn't a beam of light.
It's a tk based attack, which moves as fast as Supermans thoughtspeeds are.
Light can't hit with concussive force, as HV often does.
And i've seen him fly so fast that he leaves a trail of hv behind him...
HV is a potent attack that moves at the speed of Thought, his thought.
He can't go lightspeed in the atmosphere, whether because of the lack of a vacuum, or because he's scared of the consequences.
CBR is wrong.
That's not lightspeed.
Not even close.
Superman has superfast reflexes, but i doubt they're ftl reflexes.
Originally posted by Juntai
It's not worth it, when he won't even acknowledge the actual comic scans anymore in favor of his made up version of Superman that can't fight in Superspeed. When he wrecked The Elite so bad they couldn't even see him moving, he appeared as simple floating talk bubbles randomly. Or him on page 5 vibrating through and around Doomsdays attacks at hyperspeeds, or appearing at every angle imaginable at the same time while fighting Imperiex, or blitzing through the entire city. Or...Anyways, you get it, he's not going to.
You're another poster I respect - what's your opinion on me and Val's discussion a few posts back?
Originally posted by Soljer
Then, do we chalk Superman's Earth to the Sun feat up to dramatic license as well?I mean, has it ever actually been stated that Superman can travel at several times the speed of light? On panel, in caption, I mean?
Yes, it has. Maxwell Lord timed a fight between Superman and Wonder Woman (I think it was Wondy) during which they went to mercury and back to earth. It was around 2 minutes. And this was stated on-panel, verified by Checkmate's computer tracking systems.
Superman does have FTL reflexes. they would be a requirement to navigate at FTL speeds.