Question for those who claim Hudlin is racist

Originally posted by Ha Son
It could have been forged with good intentions...but then again, it could have been a tool for kings or those in positions of powers to justify their hegemony.

Fair enough, but if the system itself teaches individuals not to question a god, then it creates all sorts of problems.

And this is what I will agree with, the system itself is IMO not flawed. But the system is meant for a perfect world to be worshipped by a perfect species.

Not question a being I've never met........really?????

We as humans are FAAAR from perfect. Its almost (and sorry for using a factitious movie) like the matrix; how the machines said they created a system too perfect and it failed the first time thanks to our human nature; so they created one that was imprefect. Same thing with religion sort of. Of course this is just my thoughts.

Side note: it is said that the origin's of religion was forged from the ancient civilizations interpreting the stars, sun and moon; I could go on but who knows what is true.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
And this is what I will agree with, the system itself is IMO not flawed. But the system is meant for a perfect world to be worshipped by a perfect species.

Not question a being I've never met........really?????

We as humans are FAAAR from perfect. Its almost (and sorry for using a factitious movie) like the matrix; how the machines said they created a system too perfect and it failed the first time thanks to our human nature; so they created one that was imprefect. Same thing with religion sort of. Of course this is just my thoughts.

Side note: it is said that the origin's of religion was forged from the ancient civilizations interpreting the stars, sun and moon; I could go on but who knows what is true.

Originally posted by Cavalier
I don't think the fact that humans can use it to justify their actions is the problem, but the fact that it can cause such a widespread belief of something so horrible. That's not something you can fix, but it is a basic problem that I see with religion.

People are the problem. History has proven that over and over and over. I don't see why people feel the need to pin it on something else.

Originally posted by Cavalier
Religion is all about association and belief. If enough people believe that they can use religion to justify their actions, and do so blindly, then the original message of the religious text that they quote doesn't matter, because their new take on the scripture can catch like wildfire.

But you basically said that actions change the meaning of the text. Which is absurd.

Originally posted by Cavalier
I never said that we should get rid of the knife. I actually haven't proposed a solution whatsoever. I just believe that their is a fundamental problem with how easily the manipulation of religion can be used to manipulate masses, regardless of the original theology.

People can be convinced that Jupiter is within the orbit of Mars just because "scientists say so". I say we abolish science due to it's potential for evil (and in fact the way it has been used constantly for horrible evil on levels that religion cannot even approach).

Originally posted by Ha Son
It could have been forged with good intentions...but then again, it could have been a tool for kings or those in positions of powers to justify their hegemony.

not to nitpick, but i believe you're misusing the word "hegemony" there. in the marxist sense, i'm pretty sure hegemony is a trait of the working class; their acceptance of the dominance of the ruling class. so the kings and those in positions of power don't actually have hegemony, they impose it, whether intentionally or inadvertently.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Oh and for the record Im a non-religious person, very spiritual, but non-religious.

"I'm not honest, but you're interesting."

so storm as the black panther, huh? what's all that about?

Originally posted by Disappear
so storm as the black panther, huh? what's all that about?

A cheap way of giving the character powers and undermining the entire character concept that has been built around BP?

Originally posted by Disappear
not to nitpick, but i believe you're misusing the word "hegemony" there. in the marxist sense, i'm pretty sure hegemony is a trait of the working class; their acceptance of the dominance of the ruling class. so the kings and those in positions of power don't actually have hegemony, they impose it, whether intentionally or inadvertently.

"I'm not honest, but you're interesting."

so storm as the black panther, huh? what's all that about?

all i know of marxism, i learned from a hippie-dippie english teacher explaining why hard work was bullshit...

Originally posted by Disappear
all i know of marxism, i learned from a hippie-dippie english teacher explaining why hard work was bullshit...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I say we abolish science due to it's potential for evil (and in fact the way it has been used constantly for horrible evil on levels that religion cannot even approach).

you can't even compare science to religion, at all. science is a universal truth. the law of gravity is the same in USA as it is in Russia, the same to a Jewish scientist as it is to a Muslim one. and no, no scientist believes Jupiter revolves around mars.

Religion on the other hand pretty much is contradictory. Christians believe only those who follow Christ will go to heaven, Muslims believe you must pray 5 times a day in order to respect Allah, and Jews have their set of beliefs. And that's before even going into the various sects of each religion who believe they are the true believers. So pretty much an adherent of one religion is viewed as either an idiot or a sacrilegious person by the adherents of the other religions.

A muslim thinks a Christian doesn't have true faith or relationship with god. A christian thinks a jew is mistaken and will be denied heaven. etc etc

Now I know religion is a source of good for many as well...so Im certainly not trying to say it is all bad.

---

the reason we have religion is to explain the unknown...because we humans as creatures have curiosity.

Ancients who didn't understand weather cycles and lightning or fire thought praying to weather gods would bring good yield (it doesnt).

When we humans became advanced enough, the one question we could never find answer for is
1. why are we here
and
2. what happens when we die

hence modern religions (with their requisite stories) came along and provided us with these explanatsion (read: tales).

Modern religion was written by educated men of their time...and as a result contains many errors that showcased the lack of scientifc development at the time those religions were created.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
People are the problem. History has proven that over and over and over. I don't see why people feel the need to pin it on something else.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But you basically said that actions change the meaning of the text. Which is absurd.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
People can be convinced that Jupiter is within the orbit of Mars just because "scientists say so". I say we abolish science due to it's potential for evil (and in fact the way it has been used constantly for horrible evil on levels that religion cannot even approach).

And while science can be used for despicable acts as well, that's neither here nor there.

Originally posted by Starscream M
you can't even compare science to religion, at all. science is a universal truth. the law of gravity is the same in USA as it is in Russia, the same to a Jewish scientist as it is to a Muslim one. and no, no scientist believes Jupiter revolves around mars.

Religion on the other hand pretty much is contradictory. Christians believe only those who follow Christ will go to heaven, Muslims believe you must pray 5 times a day in order to respect Allah, and Jews have their set of beliefs. And that's before even going into the various sects of each religion who believe they are the true believers. So pretty much an adherent of one religion is viewed as either an idiot or a sacrilegious person by the adherents of the other religions.

A muslim thinks a Christian doesn't have true faith or relationship with god. A christian thinks a jew is mistaken and will be denied heaven. etc etc

Now I know religion is a source of good for many as well...so Im certainly not trying to say it is all bad.

---

the reason we have religion is to explain the unknown...because we humans as creatures have curiosity.

Ancients who didn't understand weather cycles and lightning or fire thought praying to weather gods would bring good yield (it doesnt).

When we humans became advanced enough, the one question we could never find answer for is
1. why are we here
and
2. what happens when we die

hence modern religions (with their requisite stories) came along and provided us with these explanatsion (read: tales).

Modern religion was written by educated men of their time...and as a result contains many errors that showcased the lack of scientifc development at the time those religions were created.

If you seriously believe that science a) involves/claims the presence of universe truths and/or b) is unanimously agreed upon by scientists you're a complete blithering moron with no understanding of science. Your reading of religion is also terribly flawed by generalization and argument from the extreme fallacies.

Originally posted by Starscream M
and no, no scientist believes Jupiter revolves around mars.

Scratch what I said before, you are just stupid.

Originally posted by Cavalier
I never said that people interpreting it were not the source of the problem. That being said, when those people are easily able to convince the masses simply by pointing to a misinterpretation of scripture, something is wrong. Blind faith that leads to irreversible injustice is the problem, and has been a consistent problem for years.

So then you really have nothing against religion, just against blind faith?

Originally posted by Cavalier
No, actions change the effect of the text.

Nothing about the text ever changes except interpretations. The same is true of any written text.

Originally posted by Cavalier
I never said we should abolish religion, and science and religion are not at all comparable, the primary reason being that with science, people can question... which is exactly how scientific discoveries are made.

People can question religion, I'm not sure where you got the idea that you can't.

Originally posted by Cavalier
And while science can be used for despicable acts as well, that's neither here nor there.

You oppose religion because it can lead (and has led) to despicable acts. To not oppose science on the same grounds is a double standard at the very best.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If you seriously believe that science a) involves/claims the presence of universe truths and/or b) is unanimously agreed upon by scientists you're a complete blithering moron with no understanding of science. Your reading of religion is also terribly flawed by generalization and argument from the extreme fallacies.

Scratch what I said before, you are just stupid.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

Nothing about the text ever changes except interpretations. The same is true of any written text.

one example of text changing as our world view and moral standards changed is that in the bible, many instances of 'slaves' were replaced with 'servants'.

the text has changed, there are many versions of the bible.

Originally posted by Starscream M
whoa, you must be one smart cookie being able to hurl insults and make statements with no backing or examples whatsover. idiot.

It's not an insult. It's an objective statement of fact 😬

Originally posted by Starscream M
don't call others stupid and then speak out of your ass on things you know shit about.

one example of text changing as our world view and moral standards changed is that in the bible, many instances of 'slaves' were replaced with 'servants'.

the text has changed, there are many versions of the bible.

Is there anything that doesn't go sailing completely over your head?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It's not an insult. It's an objective statement of fact 😬

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Is there anything that doesn't go sailing completely over your head?

you know what goes sailing completely over my head? storm as the black panther. what a wacky idea!

Originally posted by Starscream M
you can't even compare science to religion, at all. science is a universal truth. the law of gravity is the same in USA as it is in Russia,

It funny you would uses the law of gravity as an example. Because Newton would completely disagree with your statement.

i keep wanting to reply, to add my two cents... then i have the unfortunate problem or remembering that this is A COMICS FORUM

Originally posted by Disappear
you know what goes sailing completely over my head? storm as the black panther. what a wacky idea!

it's f*cked up, is what it is...

I actaully though thats what they would do.

Originally posted by Cavalier
Then what do you say concerning a theology that is repeatedly used and manipulated to back up that corruption? Whether it be the fault of the belief or the believers, one lends itself to the other in order to create such a widespread belief such as how racism was (and, to an extent, is, though it's far less based on Christian "teachings" nowadays). You can blame person after person after person for justifying their actions through religion, but the fact is that they are all able to still use Christianity (or any major religion) to gain widespread support for whatever atrocious act they're committing. If any religion can be so easily manipulated to cause others to readily discriminate then there is a clear flaw in the system, as I said.

I was gonna respond to this, but didn't for two reasons.....

1) Apollo Knight and Sym Chaos answered it pretty much for me.

2) This is a comic forum and I've already been too disruptive in responding to these comments. I apologise to everyone for contributing to a discussion unrelated to the topic. If anyone wishes to continue this discussion, there are appropriate threads or they can PM me. I'm always happy to respond when I can.